Beedster

[quote name='mikeswals' timestamp='1445832652' post='2894536'] Wow Beedster, already added a 2nd Wal to the mix! Is that the fretless 86 that was here in Seattle a month ago? And does that mean you fixed the frets on your wenge one? [/quote] Hi Mike It is indeed, and rather nice it is also. I've never played a fretted Wal, and the plan was to refret the '83 and thereby rectify that situation. I am however having cold feet a present, I love the 83 as it is: it's something of a mongrel and has a rosewood as opposed to ebony board (although this gives it a slightly warmer and more rounded tone I think), so there's the strong possibility I'll have two fretless Wals for a while whilst I make up my mind! Things could be worse I guess?

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1449881295' post='2927794'] Not that you are exaggerating at all ! [/quote] Well perhaps a little However, the general sentiment is true, Fender are just not 'the best' any more, at anything, and certainly not Precisions. All they're doing to maintain market position is producing an almost interminable flow of 'signature', road-worn and relic instruments, most of which are all pretty much the same as each other barring the colour scheme and a few idiosyncratic details. OK, they have improved the quality of their budget instruments hugely, and should perhaps be praised for doing so, but in the context of 'best' - which is what this thread was about - they're not even top 5. My comment re FCS wasn't all exaggeration however, play a Yammie BB1024 against many FCS Precisions or P/Js and all you'll notice when you leave the shop is the extra grand in your bank account. OK, I'm no great fan of the look of the Yammie, but the build quality, playability and tone are outstanding, and you get the feeling you are playing an instrument built by a company that is constantly striving to make better instruments, not simply more instruments. This years I've sold all my Fenders - including a couple of CSs - but kept the Yamahas. In fact this is the first time in almost 20 years that I don't have a Fender. If I wanted a high quality Precision that I can't get off-the-peg or on here, I'd probably build one from custom Warmoth parts. And my comment re Ric, probably understatement

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1449836033' post='2927311'] It was done with me playing each bass from behind a curtain - with the amp on stage in front of the curtain - the audience didn`t know what bass I was playing, they just voted purely on what they heard. [/quote] Yes, but if you knew what you were playing, that's 50% of any effect right there....

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1449836753' post='2927328'] They should have been on top of this a loooong time ago... [/quote] Exactly, I find it almost sad to say that if I were looking for a Precision or a Jazz the last place I'd be looking is Fender, especially if buying new, but even I was buying vintage. I've owned/still own 70's Precisions by Yamaha and Ibanez and, despite costing no more than £300 each, both blow 70's Fenders out of the water. My current Yam is better than all of my pre-CBSs. Whilst the current Fender product line is clearly more QC consistent by comparison with earlier eras, so it bloody well should be a for a company that have been doing it for 60+ years. The problem is however that they charge a massive premium for the name. I'm not exaggerating when I say that Yamaha have better instruments in their budget ranges than Fender have in their Custom Shop range. Even Fender's standard MIA offering is creeping up to the level for which you can buy a pretty outstanding instrument from a whole range of better builders like Sadowsky. They're not alone of course, Rics are even worse, at least Fender have their current QC sorted, Ric are still sending unplayable 4003s to shops at close to £2000.

Yamaha

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1449658353' post='2925579'] They all sound the same. Vintage Fenders are no better than modern Fenders. It's a myth and, in fact, according to Basschats very own tests, the Mark Hoppus J/P Signature is the best Precision around. Invest the money on a good rig. That'll get you on your way to the sound in your head more than a vintage instrument ever will. Play a £2k instrument through a £50 amp and it'll sound just as rubbish as an EBay beginner bass does. Best of luck! [/quote] [quote name='40hz' timestamp='1449682850' post='2925963'] I agree, a P pretty much sounds like a P. The differences I've heard between vintage and non vintage are negligible. Although the late 70's ones seem to sound a bit more ballsy, it's as basic a design as it gets really. Go down the amp route to get that vintagey sound. [/quote] For some reason I'd like to agree re all Precisions sounding the same, but it's simply not true. A good Precision is a very different thing sonically to a crap one, and I've owned both. I do however agree on spending money on a rig; if you've got £2000 to spend, £500 on a good Precision - MIJ Fender, Yamaha, Lakland, frankly even an upgraded Squier (i.e., upgrade PUPs, circuit and tuners), and £1500 on a cracking rig (Ampeg, Aggie, Boogie) will get you better tone overall than £1500 on a Precision and £500 on the rig. But you will need a decent Precision, or your £1500 rig will also sound crap. And Precisions don't all sound the same

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1449590631' post='2924944'] I think of them as the Harley Davidson of basses. And that isn't a compliment! [/quote] It's a valid comparison! Style over performance, reliability and ergonomics, hugely overpriced, completely marmite to the point of controversy, However, whether you like it or not, both are still rare examples of novel, iconic, and classic design.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1449654522' post='2925523'] If you just have to own an old bass just be aware that Leo Fender could put out a turkey and regularly did. There are a lot of myths around Fender basses old and new, so don't believe any "experts" on the internet. There have been good and bad Fenders in all eras. For investment purposes just buy the oldest, cleanest Fender bass you can find, put it under the bed, because it's an investment, and start looking for that Lakland. [/quote] Yep, the question of 'best era' is entirely moot when buying one bass, there were diamonds and dogs in all eras. If I were buying 1000 Fender Precisions from one era (and wouldn't that be nice), I'd be looking at late 60's, but there's no way I could say that any one late 60's PB is going to be better than any one PB from another era. Without question the best Precision I've ever played - and I've owned over 20 including several pre-CBS and late 60s/early 70s - was made by Yamaha in the late 1970s, and cost me less than £300. A Precision Bass is a pretty crude, albeit iconic instrument, and does not require a lot of skill to make well. The big problem with Fender is that an awful lot of the basses that come off their productions lines in the 70's and 80's just weren't made well. Tp my mind, those that are coming off the lines today are more consistent but hugely over-priced for what they are, you can generally build the equal of an MIA Precision from aftermarket parts for a lot less money.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1449490473' post='2923913'] Chalk and cheese... I bought an Am Deluxe and sent it back. It felt tin-pot compared to the Jake. Both my Jakes are proper luthier-built quality. I can't fault them, or the other Jake I've tried. [/quote] Agree about Deluxe Fenders, quite surprised to see one on your list JT. Sounds like you've got a touch of GAS that needs putting out quick, put a deposit on something decent. Looks like WoT's new squeezes are getting the nod, and you can get your spec and not Fender's?

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1449489166' post='2923889'] Very good! As I have long suspected, being a tight and together band is not about simply following the drums. A good band will sound tight and play in time with or without drums. It's not enough to leave rhythmic duties to the drummer, it's the responsibility of the whole band. And if you get a particularly crap drummer of the type that merely 'plays along' rather than taking that responsibility, you have a very sloppy dog's breakfast indeed. Everything should flow naturally - as a bass player, you shouldn't have to push and pull the timing to keep everything afloat, it's very tiring and makes the whole business unpleasant when it should be fun. Which is why playing with a competent drummer is such a pleasure. [/quote] Agreed, but a lot of people really do need convincing of the above, many preferring to play in a sloppy band with drums that a tight one without. For many bands there's also a big difference between rehearsing and/or 'gigging without our drummer' (subtext 'it won't be as tight as it normally is but we'll/you'll have to live with it'), and 'we don't have a drummer' (subtext 'this is us and as good as we get so we all have to make it as tight as possible'). In the former scenario bands often assume that when the drummer returns things will become naturally/organically tighter, which is of course not always the case. Personally, I'm loving the new role, I eyeball the guys the message "OK, we're taking it up", get their attention and up it goes, no need to go through the third party (drummer), or have it happen drummer-led without any warming whatsoever, which was the problem in the old days!

What I most like about playing without a drummer is that the whole band have to become far more rhythmically/percussively aware and tight, which means they have to listen to each other more than is often the case when simply staying with the thud and snap of a kick/snare. I play DB at the left of the angle to variously 45-90 degrees to the stage so that I make strong eye contact, and they can also see what my hands are doing even if they can't hear all that well, which occasionally happens. If you hear us recorded, you get the feel there's a drum or at least percussion in there somewhere, but it's just the sound of a lot of instruments playing tightly together.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1449403188' post='2923156'] That's interesting. Is the DB amplified or can you be adequately heard acoustically? [/quote] Rehearsals to small gigs unplugged, moderate gigs (up to 50 is so punters) into a PJB Briefcase, large gigs Ampeg or Aguilar. I've adopted a rather agricultural slap style that is essentially a snare on the 2 and 4, and play with action as high as possible to get a big thump on the 1 and 3. Of course, it varies with song and I don't play it in all (we do some Tom Waits that just doesn't need it), be even with tracks on which you wouldn't expect it to work, such as Paul Simon's Late in the Evening, it holds thing together nicely. Puts me in charge of holding rhythm and bass together, which reduces slippage to a huge degree, especially live.

I learned to play slap DB so we could be drummerless, so much less hassle, very little loss tonally and much tighter rhythmically.