Agent 00Soul

Everyone was wondering why he was buying such an unprofitable platform as Twitter. It turned out that money had nothing to do with it, in the short term direct sense. He just wanted his own broadcast platform to air his own and sympathizers' views. He was playing a longer game which he can certainly afford to do. I wonder where all the people he fired ended up.

The funny thing about the crypto people and the new age health people who are mostly MAGA now, is they usually started life on the left and gradually migrated over. Covid was a big accelerator too.

This. Upvoted 5 zillion percent. I personally wish the international press would explain this better.

Believe me, I am no MAGA or even truly conservative by 21st century standards (hence my comments about Carney/Starmer/Reeves/our society). But I am a professional researcher and for the last 20 years I've spent in the darkest corners studying all of this and I really am trying to convey to people here how a lot of the people in those dark corners feel. And of course, I'm from the USA originally so am offering some perspectives that might not make it to the UK/European press on the what's led to this point. But I don't support it.

Yes, we’ll see. But if anyone can wait it out it’s Gen-Z. They don’t have much or any chances acquiring a middle class life anyway, so I doubt they feel they have much to lose. They have been conditioned to a world of low material expectations. Unless they are a majority-snowflake generation which would be ironic as hell. Maybe Carney is the white knight who will sishkebob Trump in the joust of international relations. But still…yech! Just because he was anti-Brexit does not mean he isn’t part of the problem we as a society have by looking to rich people, the finance sector in particular, to save us. Starmer and Reeves’ cloying charm offensive to the City when in the shadow cabinet was another example.

Re Carney: it’s a sad testament to the status of progressivism when the guy chosen to lead the charge against an authoritarian neighbour, the so-called “good guy,” is a millionaire financier who managed the national banks of two countries and worked at Goldman Sachs. Re Age: most of the Jan 20 insurrectionists were Gen-X. Trump was supported by nearly 60 percent of under 30 males and I think around 35% under 30 females in the last election. The seniors swung GOP like they usually do. MAGA is pretty broad coalition of ages and conservative beliefs, the younger being the most radical as usual. (“End democracy and build something new” was a paraphrase of one Gen-Zer speech at CPAC). The biggest split age-wise seems to be those who have a cult of personality around Trump, and those who see Trump as just the necessary first step, a blunt instrument, for more radical, right-wing, change. Unsurprisingly, the latter skews younger as they are more idealistic about the future and have more time.

This just in: the USA to shut down all European basses! Sorry; someone had to fall on their sword and say it.

Another thing to remember: basses, like all wooden instruments, need to be broken in for their sound and playability to be at their best. If you play all the time, this can happen within a year. For most weekend warriors it can take longer. It's something else to consider when judging new vs used (and of course not all used instruments are broken in).

The aim is for the USA to become what Hungary under Orban is. I think Orban himself called it “illiberal democracy” or something. Whatever it’s called, the modern Hungarian state is the model. It’s ironic that such Europhobes as the MAGA Republicans are quite open in their desire to copy a European country and EU member.

To be fair, not everyone is going to welcome the idea of a European superpower either. Jewish people and much of the global south have generally not faired too well whenever Europe is really powerful. True or not, that is the perception. A Belgian lady of Somalian descent even mentioned it on NYC tv during the George Floyd protests. Not sure what options there are though. Ironically European far-right identity groups might be on board for this, even though they like Trump right now. Their love of white people, especially “their” white people, controlling things might take precedence.

Surely you mean Thanksgiving! 🤪 But also, it sounds like lots of people here seem to think the answer is for the US to adopted more European/Canadian welfare state programs. I’ve been hearing it on this side of the Atlantic since the 1980s. It’s not going to happen. It is not in the mainstream culture or something the majority would accept. Until Bernie Sanders and AOC about a decade ago it wasn’t even polite conversation. It was crazy talk from extremists. Look at how controversial Obamacare still is all these years later. Any radical change in the US is going to come from the right for it to taken seriously by most people. Having said that, I will also add that the whole trope of the US being the best country in the world hasn’t been the majority view for a long time in America. People know they are being left behind internationally. That’s why they are fodder for reactionaries who promise a return to a 1950s standard of living and a pre-civil rights culture.

Based on what family and friends are telling me: very much so. All those things are being discussed lots. But the fact remains that Trump is doing exactly what people who voted for him claim they wanted, and so far don’t seem to mind the whole evolution to kleptocracy thing, as the current system (let’s call it elective democracy for want of a more accurate term) has definitely not really been working for almost a generation so people have given up on it as unfixable. Correction: it works but not for Joe/Josephine Average. There actually are lots of organized and spontaneous protests but the media isn’t covering them and they don’t really matter anyway because it’s the usual subjects - Dems, progressives, identity groups - doing them so it is having the effect of pissing in the wind.

I don't know why this guy or some in the British newsmedia keeps saying that a critical mass of people in the US, especially Republicans is starting to protest against Trump. They aren't, at least not in any numbers or in any meaningful way that will have any kind of impact. Trump is a symptom and catalyst for what has been building in the US since Obama, not the cause. He would never have gotten this far if there weren't enough people who, deep down, agree with him even if they find him personally distasteful. He's the means to an ends. Also, when are French people going to learn that US Republicans wear the criticisms coming from France as a badge of honour? As far as they are concerned, it's a sign that they are doing something right.

Americans’ stereotype of Democrats is that they worship Canada and Canadians to the point of sycophancy. The stereotype of Republicans is they feel that there is a special level of hell reserved for Canada that’s even lower than the one reserved for Western European welfare states. So this is a grudge match that won’t be settled any time soon.

I went down the rabbit hole a bit. Some stuff from US socials: "Many people support Trump as a wrecking ball. They view society itself is irredeemably corrupted (some for religious reasons, some for anti-capitalist reasons) and desire it to be fully destroyed. Because they think they will get to decide what takes his place." Here's an amalgamation of Trump voters the person above made: "Yeah man, I didn't vote for Trump, I didn't vote at all, but I wanted Trump to win. I just think we need a new paradigm. Sure a lot of people will get hurt in the process, and maybe it's a little privileged of me, but I think it would be better if things collapsed, then people could just live, like, a more day-to-day existence and I think that would be good. Death is nothing to be afraid of."

This will work as well as Labour trying to embrace Reform policies https://www.thedailybeast.com/dems-unveil-new-plan-to-beat-maga-more-gun-shows-and-less-aoc/

Absolutely. And it’s really got me confused. What should the US be doing about all these issues and is it what his voters want?

One thing has got me shaking my head a bit. During the first Gulf War, to get Saddam out of Kuwait, the feeling in the UK, at least among my 20-something cohort, was that this was the US getting involved where it shouldn’t trying to assist a small country invaded by its bigger, dictatorial neighbour. (And a chance to get first dibs on Kuwait and Saudi’ resources.) The feeling now is the opposite. What’s the difference? Is it because it’s now Europe not the Middle East? White people instead of brown? Not Muslim? I’m genuinely curious. Not sure there is a definitive answer.

That's true actually. Cold War/post-Cold War US was Batman. Trump is definitely the Joker - disruption and chaos for are his jam.

It's like the interrogator of Al Queda members at Guantanamo said 20 years ago: everyone thinks they are being Luke and Han. For example, the EU also talks about itself and it's mission as if it were Star Trek's Federation. But it's just as legit to see it as the world's biggest, richest white privilege club founded by the world's most brutal one-time colonial powers. And no greater authority than Michael Caine himself once described the US as thinking of itself as Superman, but it's really Batman.

Tegs, with all due respect, I think you are thinking about this too rationally. Lots and lots of people are past the point of politics from the head. We are in the realm of politics from the gut. And also for all the links between Andrew Tate and the far-right, the politics from the groin.

OMG yes! People don't realise that even employed people are more like the working poor in the US these days. And there is no savings. The Fed sent out a survey and one of the questions was how would people pay for a $400 emergency (about 310 pounds sterling) and an astonishing 47% said they couldn't. They didn't have enough! 310 pounds! Credit card debt and eBay have seemingly become the answer to everything in the US. The US has gone from a high-standard of living for white people in the 1950s to a low standard for almost all of the former middle class. Those people are ripe for radical solutions. That's the opening of an eye-opening article in The Atlantic about this. It's a pay site but I have a free link if anyone wants to take a gander. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/?gift=rC9jnbvALCE5JiLdXLUu6gw6eoxL5cfqdnCwXhUX4ZI&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

I get it, but I'm also 56 and comfortably middle class with all the trappings that used to entail for a much larger part of the population. What you describe doesn't excite young voters (it didn't for me when I was 23 either - although my "solution" was to be far-left not far-right). It didn't in the 1920s and 30s either. Democracy was seen as boring and unispiring and ultimatly unable to prevent or stop the Great Depression. And, as I wrote, a critical mass of older voters feel they have been consistently lied to and that nothing has changed/will change without blowing the whole thing up. Both groups have big streaks of nihilism in them too. I think this also explains in the modern trend of huge groups of people of all stripes taking refuge in identity politics. Any port in a storm and all that. To understand this better check out this visionary book. It's short and a quick read and was written about radical Islam, but has turned out to exactly describe the quandary the West is facing now. Occidentalism by Ian Buruma & Avishai Margalit

Easier said than done. Mainstream parties around the western world have left a huge mass of the public feeling that they've done nothing for them and aren't about to believe they will now. At least that's how I understand it.