GreeneKing

Generally, in my experience people don’t.

Of a set list of 22 he was consistently getting 4 or 5 ‘inconsistent’. Every now and again he’d surprise me by adding one to the list that had always been okay before. The real issue I guess is that he doesn’t see anything wrong with his approach.

It’s not timing. My timing is pretty solid. Please see the post above.

What he was doing, as I’ve said a few times now, is missing a few bars, or phrases out mainly. Usually around a bridge or coming up to the outtro. There is nothing artistic in it, just not getting it right and not thinking it important. Sometimes where a phrase should be shorter, like either side of the middle bit in ‘Come Together’ he’ll play it like the rest of the song and sometimes he won’t. He just approximates song structures on a whim.

That is an ideal approach. Sadly the bugger plays so loud he and probably the audience wouldn’t notice if the rhythm section stayed on course

This has been a long thread. I hope it’s been entertaining I has reinforced my view that being blasé about song structure isn’t acceptable. As was said, I’m not psychic. I’ve chatted with the rhythm guitarist over the phone. I didn’t realise how much he felt the same way. He’s been keeping quiet about it. It’s not just the loss of a few bars here and there but his lead in for solos is being hammed up to the point where he doesn’t bother and just carries on chugging out chords. He’s not as bothered about it falling apart as I am. Well, back to the books and time to work on some skills beyond learning and playing songs. Thanks to everyone that has contributed. Peter

I’ve been riding motorcycles since I was 16. There is my field of expertise I wish my bass playing were anywhere near that level.

It’s really not about him having a flair for improvisation but instead chopping the odd few bars out due to both not bothering to get it right and not seeing it as any sort of an issue.

I’m not talking ‘loose and stylish’, just getting the structure wrong and most commonly cuttings bits short. To my way of thinking that is making a mistake. He doesn’t see it as a mistake but his ‘playing by feel’. Perhaps a bigger issue is his tantrums every time I try to say anything about it.

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others.

We haven’t been a gigging band for long, just a bunch of guys meeting up for a jam regularly. So there was no need to address his inconsistent structure.

He was sympathetic to my view.

I'm compiling a txt as I type Hopefully diplomatically. I'll re-read it before I press send.

I was chatting to the leads bro who I met in the street, our singer. I realise that the lead is essentially a bedroom player. He has no concept of what it means to play with other musicians. Of course he doesn't see song structure as an important issue because when you're playing in your bedroom it doesn't matter. His guitar is too loud, he thinks only of his part and is completely unaware that his mistakes are wrong footing other members in the band and basically hanging them out to dry. I'm fed up with him saying on a song ending, that sounded great when I spent two bars trying to adjust from playing the chorus to the outtro. He's oblivious. Next practice I'm going to have a word, I'll tell him beforehand that tantrums aren't acceptable and explain a few facts around being in a band. Either that or I message him beforehand.

Just to paint an accurate picture of ‘the band’. For the past couple of years we’ve been a bunch of guys meeting up once a month to work on some covers purely for our own entertainment. No ambitions of gigging. Ive been honest in that I’m up for it but failing that it’s a way to improve my musicianship and give myself a focus. This upcoming gig may well be a one off. If we can sort things out it may lead to more gigs. It may even all fall apart. Opportunities are limited so I hope not.

Absolutely

In my first band I generally kept the song structure and the rest of the guys were okay with that. Expected it even.

Not necessarily. I don’t think it’s just a volume thing. I could be loud and still be lost in the mix. I’d describe the bass as focussed and loud enough considering the need to be heard alongside the lead. If he turned down a little then so could I. I’m not in a competition but sometimes I can’t hear the bass clearly when I’m in front of my amp. It’s almost as if he doesn’t understand the role of or need for a bass.

Spot on Mart. We were just that until I found us a gig. The lead did the singing before and now his bro is onboard for the gig. The drummer gigs anyway and the Rhythm isn't so keen. I'm probably the keenest to perform in front of an audience. It's bound to produce stress but I see that as a positive. People who just meet up for a jam can be quite selfish and focussed on their own stuff methinks.

The Rhythm guitarist is low key and can hardly be heard a lot of the time. He's the sort of guy that likes to turn up and take part and doesn't want to 'rock the boat'. He has mentioned that he finds it annoying but as the bassist I seem to be more focussed on song structure than everyone else. There's a bit of 'does it really matter' attitude going on. When I'm having to sort out what I'm playing and where we are mid bar then yes, to me it matters. It sounds bad and I'm the one that stands out as getting it wrong to anyone listening.

My bass cuts through into the mix really well despite the lead being too loud. I really think that if I turned my bass down he wouldn’t notice, so ‘lost in the sauce’ is he. Even with only one 8ohm cab my GK Legend 800 is operating with the volume down around 2 of 10. When he expresses delight at how good a song went he has no idea that I spent a couple of bars not playing due to him spontaneously modifying the song structure. I think that the root of the problem is him focussing on just lead with the volume meaning it overwrites the band.

Thank you Matt.

Indeed.

If we do get to the gig, and I hope we do with smiles on our faces, we will be professional. Of that I’m sure.