derrenleepoole

Simply wonderful stuff! Watching that while munching on a samosa made for a great lunch break

I've just been doing exactly the same thing recently. I've up some stuff and will just have to share

I have two, first: listening to Charles Mingus, in particular Slop and Song With Orange. I was walking to my mates house listening to him on the headphones around 1990. Had been playing bass for a few years, and my mate mentioned that he was a great bassist. I wasn't into jazz at all at the time, and had the album for some, but I just didn't understand it. I decided to give the album another go and it was about 15 minutes into the album when I suddenly had a moment of clarity - everything clicked into place; the basslines, the drumming, the horns, chord sequences etc... I suddenly understood what was going on and how it related to other music. It was an awakening that lead me to many other genres of music. My second was hearing Krystof Penderecki's Threnody For The Victims Of Hiroshima - it left me speechless and in tears, I never thought it was possible to emote so much feeling in music so seemingly abstract. Enough said.

This is a perfect example of why I feel Myung is an overrated bassist - in my opinion there is no musicality in this piece whatsoever... it's just a collection of really fast arpeggios and scale exercises played not very well at all to quite a nice ballad background piece! What's so special about that? Any bassist with half a mind to practice can do this given time and patience. I can't help but feel John really wanted to be a guitarist but got landed the role of bassist instead because no else would do it... this is just spanking the plank! PS... I know it's a jam session, but still!

[quote name='Bilbo' post='924011' date='Aug 13 2010, 03:19 PM']This isn't a response to your band, Jake, but I have a bit of an issue with the word 'entertainment' because it is often used as a justification for 'lowest common denominator' in terms content. Many musicians make decisions based on their [i]perception[/i] of 'what the people want' and fill their sets with old faithfuls like Midnight Hour, Lady Marmalade, Son Of A Preacher Man and so on. Jazz bands are no different and they fill their sets with the tried and true; Autumn Leaves, Fly Me To the M n, Bye Bye Blackbird, Fever, Moondance etc. What happens, whether it is rock or jazz, is that something vital is made bland and predictable and many of the people who want to be entertained are put off. When I look out at weddings, I see dozens of people dancing and hundreds of people not (the quality of the band has no real bearing on this). I did a recent wedding where my little Brazillian project had a field of people buzzing whilst a major London 12 piece with horns, backing vox etc doing 'those' tunes failed to ignite them (people kept coming up to us and saying, 'we wish you were playing, you were much better'. So what, says you? Well, the Brazillian band's set consisted entirely of tunes they didn't know sung in Brazillian Portuguese. The band always goes down really well wherever we play. It just escalates if there are any Brazillians in the audience People want to be entertained not bored. Don't just give them what they want, give them something to get excited about, something they have not heard 1,000 times before (your Charleston gig would be a new experience to most people, Jake). A regular jazz gig I did for 5 years used to mostly act as background noise to an ambivalent audience (the drummer insisted on keeping the material 'familiar'; 'those' tunes again) but the audience (mostly 18-24) only ever sat up and listened when we took it out and did something a bit heavier: Coltrane, Monk, Ornette Coleman; something with some energy and vitality. I have no problem entertaining people and, like everyone else, I like to see people dance but it is a much better feeling when what you are doing is also a bit different, edgy, fresh and engaging. So many of us are no better than cheesy cabaret bands in wolf's clothing. Live music in the UK sometimes feels like Sky TV; every channel is pretty much the same as every other and, with 800+ options, you still can't find anything you actually want to watch. Jazz bands are just as guilty of this as function bands. Its sucking the life out of it. Entertainment is like politics. Everyone heads for the middle gorund to get the most attention and, as a result, nobody gets what they want![/quote] I couldn't agree more with this. I play in a blues band that does the odd bit of jazz and some rock and roll, and we only play tunes that we like and most of them are unfamiliar slightly more obscure tracks. Any that are familiar we try to arrange in interesting ways so that it's interesting not only for us to play, but also for the audience. If we're bored playing the set, how must the audience feel?

[quote name='benzies123' post='924479' date='Aug 13 2010, 10:47 PM']Lightheartedly: I find that Myung bashing a bit much, criticising the technique of such a brilliant technician would be fair enough if his playing reflected the apparent lack of technique. But it doesn't, if it was truly bad then his sound would suffer. It doesn't. The stuff he plays is so damn difficult, just try learning a song like Dance Of Eternity and you will see what I mean, his timing and attack is always completely impeccable, although I agree he is a little soulless. Also, DT -as someone previously mentioned- are a band that do not immediately appeal to most people. I was a huge fan for a couple of years, but when I first heard them I thought their songs were appalling. So I sympathise with that a bad first impression, but still, you can't disregard the musicianship of the whole band, and obviously the man in question.[/quote] That's it though, I don't disregard the whole technical mastery of the band, for from it. I appreciate skill as much as anyone, but as I've already said, being a master of an instrument doesn't necessarily make you musical with it! To me at least, DT just left me cold - there were some moments of brilliance, but on the whole the band just seemed like a collection of egos - it simply didn't work for me, and Myung was nothing amazing at all. I'd heard some many good things about him too - but hey, maybe it was a bad night for them, I'm always open to having my mind changed and who knows, maybe I'l like them in few years, I'm fickle like that

Anyone who thinks I'm Myung bashing - let me put your straight... I am not. I just don't think he's an 'all that' player. Like I said, overrated is the word not awful, so listing him as such was perhaps misguided in the general context of thread. I'm sure many people draw inspiration from what he does, but I personally don't. My observation of him as a player is not out of disliking DT either. I can appreciate any technician or musician who has a mastery of their craft, but being a master of an instrument doesn't necessarily make you a musician, or musical as a result of that mastery. That's why I also cited players such as Steve Bailey and Adam Nitti as other bassists I don't like - technically brilliant yes, musical with it - no/debatable! That is however, just my opinion, if you guys love it, then fair play to you, it would be very boring indeed if we all listed to the same stuff and liked it.

Hi Sarah and welcome... if you need some encouragement about playing DB and singing, check out Esperanza Spalding, you'll be glad you did

[quote name='dood' post='924396' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:16 PM']To call John Myung an awful bass player is to let your personal taste in the band as a whole package cloud your judgement. Have a listen to some of John's other projects if DT gets in the way too much lolz [/friendly jab][/quote] No, Myung isn't a great bass player full stop. Awful isn't really the right word to describe him, he's just VERY overrated in my opinion. His technique is poor in the left hand, and if any teacher taught you to play like he did, they would be doing you a massive disservice. Having watched through some stuff on Youtube it's clear that he has some nice ideas, but he's nothing extraordinary. There are many players on here who are equally competent and capable as he his. Having seen him live with Dream Theatre I was completely unimpressed and bored. I'd gone to the gig as a freebie and went with real excitement about seeing this so called super group and super bassist. Just incredibly dull. It's like paint by numbers for progressive rock! Or paint by numbers for bassists!

[quote name='Rayman' post='924315' date='Aug 13 2010, 08:02 PM']I couldn't disagree more, but fair enough, each to his own.[/quote] Don't get me wrong, I like players who are technically proficient, to see an artist at the height of their musical prowess and mastery of an instrument, but some players just don't do it for me, and the 3 listed rank at the top of my list. One man's meat and all that! It would be boring if we all liked the same thing

[quote name='RhysP' post='924229' date='Aug 13 2010, 06:28 PM']I'm so glad somebody else thinks this. I absolutely f***ing DETEST Dream Theatre but because I listen to a lot of prog stuff people automatically think I'll like them. You're totally correct - they completely fail to get the point. That's yank musicians for you - all f***ing technique & bluster with absolutely NONE of the qualities that I love about prog.[/quote] We should start an anti DT club

[quote name='slacker42uk' post='924241' date='Aug 13 2010, 06:47 PM']Errr... she is actually a very tallented bassist, who would probably give most bassist on this forum a run for their money. Jeff Beck also thinks she is brilliant too...[/quote] I agree, i'm not sure where this anti Tal vibe is coming from. The stuff with Jeff is ace

Very good indeed, the preamp adds a lot of flexibility, and the tone was great The system was easy to install, and made a huge difference in tone and was very cheap. Perhaps this is the way to go, it would only be worth putting in super expensive upgrades on a super expensive bass IMO. [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/basslines/progressive-1/smb4a_5a_3coil/"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass...smb4a_5a_3coil/[/url] [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/basslines/cutting-edge-1/stc2_stc32_3ban/"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass...tc2_stc32_3ban/[/url]

Westone released a bass back in the 80's that came with two necks, one fretted and one fretless that you changed as and when you needed it. Spectrum model I think?

[quote name='Doddy' post='924131' date='Aug 13 2010, 04:53 PM']All I'll say about Steve Bailey,is that you don't get to tour and record with artists as diverse as Dizzy Gillespie and Jethro Tull if you are all flash and pyrotechnics. He's another player that had become know for the 'Bass Extremes' thing,but had paid his dues for years prior to it.[/quote] Actually, that's a well made point. If you didn't know any better, you wouldn't realise that beyond the boring stuff he does now, there's a completely competent and capable player. I'll be honest and admit that I haven't heard the stuff will Gillespie, so I'll certainly go check it out. But Bailey is perhaps a good example of one of those musicians who doesn't know when to stop, especially in a solo context Don't get me wrong, I've seen some of his stuff and it's brilliant, but that only accounts for about 1% of it, the rest just seems to be technique over substance to me, and it just doesn't do anything for me.

Brilliant

I have the Seymour Duncan Basslines upgrades: Alnico pup and 3 band active eq preamp thingy! Altogether it cost about £130 I think - pickup was £70 ish and the preamp £60 ish second hand.

Steve Bailey gets my vote any day of the week - completely OTT player with little in the way of soul. It's all technique and flash in the pan pyrotechnics that are totally dull and uninspiring! All those false harmonics, many of which are never in tune... boring. Adam Nitti also falls into this category! Another example of a player who's playing is all technique at the expensive of anything else. I saw him live at Bassday, and while he was interesting to watch, it left me very cold and unmoved. My all time most awful bassist ever though is John Myung! How is it possible that someone so completely unoriginal and lacking in technique gets so much devotion and attention as being a 'special bassist!' Saw him live with Dream Theatre, and that has to be the worst gig I have ever seen - period. Talk about a band comprised of egos instead of musicians! sh*t!

[quote name='Beedster' post='922350' date='Aug 12 2010, 09:26 AM']LOL, and you're the one talking of inaccurate conjecture? I'm with Bassbod on this, Class D have a hiss whilst older classes had other, and louder, noises to which we'd become accustomed. There is sufficient variability in component tolerances, even within models, for the hiss to be more pronounced on some individual amps than others. Furthermore, some people are more bothered by the hiss than others. When these people meet these amps, they post here.... Simples C[/quote] I think you missed my point there! That's NOT my point of view, but a view expressed by many others who assumed that because the amp is made by Ibanez, it's some how not high end. I'm with most people on this, and know from experience that amps hiss and the degree to which they hiss varies considerably. I personally don't hear a hiss on mine. I had an older SWR Workingman 10 combo and that practically screamed white noise out, so much so that I had to turn the tweeter off which still didn't help!

I've certainly not noticed a hiss on mine, so perhaps there might be a fault somewhere. However, the youtube video is misleading and is perhaps not good evidence of 'hiss!' Why? Well, youtube videos are highly compressed and as such introduce noise into the audio channel. Also, you've recorded this on a camera phone? Microphones on a camera are very noisy indeed, so any recording they make will inherently be noisy! Also, the hiss only got louder when you practically placed the camera inside the speaker cone - granted there is a hiss audible from a distance, but that could be any of the above flaws mentioned! My observation would be to AB it against another Promethean cab, that is the only way you can be absolutely positive there's an issue. There seems to be a lot of conjecture here and none of it strictly accurate. FWIW, I've owned two Mark Bass items: a LM250 head and a CMD121P combo, both of which had a hiss of some sort. My Promethean is easily comparable in quality to the MB gear I had, both in terms of build quality and sound quality. I'm not doubting your ear or skill here, but is there perhaps another underlying issue. When I announced that I was getting the Promethean (I was one of the first ones to get one on here), the immediate response was negativity - comments like "I wouldn't trust such cheap gear" - "poor build quality" etc etc - all made without anyone actually trying it out and people who had assumed that because it's by Ibanez it must be cheap or inferior or lacking in some way. Is it not possible therefore that you're subconsciously looking for faults because it's an item made by Ibanez, a company not known for high end amp gear? If you're really convinced that there is a fault, why not try the head out of the combo with your other cabs and AB against the MB head. It could be something as simple as a crap lead that connects the head to the speaker for example.

It's not the fan is it

Given the choice I would use Pro Tools hands down - it's simply head and shoulders above the rest in terms of usability and quality. I used to use the free one on Mac OS 9, but alas there is no free OS X equivalent. As I don't have the funds at the moment for both a new Mac and a Pro Tools setup, I've been using Ardour which is a free open source DAW that works a lot like PT. I'd highly recommend it to anyone.

All amps have some sort of hiss in one way or another, so I wouldn't be surprised by it. I certainly not noticed any loud hiss on mine, even at volume, but even then if I am at gig volume there will be other noises to mask it. Is it possible that those experiencing loud hiss have active instruments, or instruments with particularly loud outputs in some way?

Just stumbled across this, nice one matey

[quote name='Bilbo' post='919751' date='Aug 9 2010, 04:02 PM']Don't know any of them so will have a look around (love Mike Walker though not so sure about Zorn)[/quote] O'o is a very good approach album and is very jazzy - it's one of the albums where he doesn't play, but other musicians interpret his scores etc. The Mike Walker album is very good. I can't recommend Phronesis enough too