EssentialTension

I was born 1952 and so a teenager through the 60s and 18 years old in 1970. I always reckoned that 1945 was a better year to be born because then I would really have been old enough to enjoy the 60s completely. However, you get what you get.

I don't take much notice of scale length. I like Fenders at 34" but there's plenty of 34" basses I don't like at all. I like semis like the Guild Starfire at 30". For a long time I played a 32" Aria. I'd say I like particular basses and not particular scale lengths. When you've just got off an upright, they all seem like toys.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1368968132' post='2083470'] Exactly so why are Fender so adverse to coloured necks? [/quote] Originally, it would probably been because of extra cost. That ought not to stop them doing a custom order or an expensive limited run.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368959024' post='2083337'] I won't bother trying as it will only derail the thread again! [/quote] OK it's a deal.

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1368956927' post='2083302'] [size=5][b]hey dude ... check out the sweet spot dude ... no ... nearer the bridge dude[/b][/size] [/quote] Excellent.

[quote name='XB26354' timestamp='1368956295' post='2083296'] One point that has been overlooked is that, although the string length can change from note to note, the distance between the pickup and the bridge is constant, so this imparts a basic character to the tone of the instrument. My interpretation of the sweet spot is a one pickup bass, where placement attempts to take some of the character of a bridge mounted pickup and a neck mounted pickup, but without the phase and interference issues of running two volumes pots or a pan pot. It's not very scientific nor very accurate, but if I had a jazz bass with the neck pickup deactivated the basic tone would have a tighter sound and bias than if the reverse (deactivated the bridge j pickup and left only the neck pickup) were done. The single pickup Stingray has a noticeably more tight and aggressive tone than a Precision bass, taking woods, strings and electronics out of the equation (if that's possible, of course). Similarly a bass with a single pickup right under the fingerboard tends to a more wooly, fat tone, and even plucking right next to bridge, it's hard to get away from that basic character. [/quote] I agree that pickup position will 'impart a basic character to the tone of the instrument', and characterised much as you say and different in different basses with different pickup configurations.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1368939334' post='2083185'] I no doubt know that it probably won't be the same same as using heavier strings doesn't make your bass sound the same if you was tuning standard with regular strings. Would I be right in thinking that if I found where the sweetspot is in relation to the nodes or abtinodes and then found the corresponding one on a smaller or larger scale. That would be the equivalent? [/quote] The nodes and antinodes move everytime you fret a note so they cannot be the cause of a supposed 'sweetspot'. Insofar as there is such a thing as a 'sweetspot', it is wherever you think the pickup sounds good on a particular bass.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1368912030' post='2083050'] My OP question in bottle: does the sweetspot move in different scales lengths? [/quote] I apologise if you fell your thread was derailed but I also thought you're original question was answered. [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1368912030' post='2083050'] ... The sweetspot(which must exist since quiet few people seem to mention such a thing... [/quote] ... or which doesn't exist because quite a few people say so.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368905230' post='2082936'] Yes they are fitted to db too, the problem is that they will be fighting the tuning of the bass on the speaking length so it looks like a bitch to get right, once bang on with your choice of strings and bridge fitted where you want for overall tone you can measure each string length after the bridge and have a tail carved to that exact shape to remove the need for tuners, you can see why db setups are not for novices! [/quote] I don't understand what you are saying.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368903490' post='2082911'] Been reading up and the fine tuners are for tuning the after bridge string length! No idea why, so much db learning to do. [/quote] Can you get these fine tuners for DB? The link you provided has them for violin/viola/cello but not DB. You can't change the pitch of a string by changing the length of string beyond the bridge or beyond the nut. You can change the pitch by changing the tension in the string by using a tuner (which winds the string or pulls the string tighter) at either end - nut or bridge. Now the fine tuner can operate by winding the string or straight pulling the string with a lever (and looking at them that is how many work) but it is not the length of the string past the nut or bridge that matters.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368901518' post='2082876'] Then altering the length of string behind the bridge has altered the tension? [/quote] Altering the length of the string beyond the bridge cannot by definition (or in any other sense) affect tension. Anyway, a tuner does not alter the length of a string. I know nothing about violin fine tuners but they must somehow be tightening the string or loosening the string to adjust its pitch, just like any other tuner.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1368898708' post='2082838'] I have 4 basses with the option to do either. It definitely gives a tighter feel due to the break angle at the saddles being sharper. You will find it much harder to stretch/pull excess string from past the saddle. I prefer through-body, because it allows me to use lighter gauges without too much flop and fret buzz [/quote] Why would you be stretching/pulling excess string from past the saddle? That sounds bizarre. How hard are you pulling on your strings? However, I like heavy gauge flats and and I play lightly. For me nothing is happening past the saddles or nut. If I want less compliance I move my right hand nearer the bridge; for more compliance I go nearer the neck.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368899029' post='2082846'] If this does not affect tension only compliance how can it alter the tuning? [url="http://www.thestringzone.co.uk/thomastik-violin-tailpiece-with-integrated-fine-tuners"]http://www.thestring...ted-fine-tuners[/url] [/quote] If it's a tuner then it affects tension; compliance has nothing to do with it.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368899081' post='2082848'] No it didnt bother me, they were both ace! [/quote]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368898660' post='2082835'] I set up the two stingrays as identicle as I could (using feeler gauges) eb 40-100 strings and I am sure 99 percent of bass players would have said the strung through had more tension (ok maybe we would be wrong scientifically) but if the strings felt more taught when tuned on the same tuner what can you say? Still interesting how the db fine tuners work, a year ago I would have laughed them off as rubbish! [/quote] Although I am too cack handed to notice any difference in compliance myself (it's definitely not a difference in tension) I am willing to accept that someone might notice a difference - in compliance. However, the difference in compliance from moving plucking fingers nearer or further away from the bridge is much much greater than any imaginable difference from string-through-body so I don't at all understand why anyone would be bothered one way or the other.

I can't tell the difference. There is certainly no difference in tension although there may be difference in compliance. [url="http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm"]http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm[/url]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368897500' post='2082824'] There are too many terms and not enough ways to describe things but it still affects tone, double basses can be fitted with fine tuners fitted on the tail piece which only alters tension (length or whatever way you want to describe the difference it will make) between the rear of the bridge and the tail rather than moving the saddle on a standard bridge. [/quote] Well a fine tuner like that is still affecting the pitch of the string and the tension in the string. But tension is not the same as compliance. And just on the issue of string-through-body - I know some people swear by it, but I have never been able to hear or feel any difference.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368896014' post='2082802'] Its not even that simple because any string length before the bridge saddles and after the nut still make a huge difference, my strung thru pre eb had much more tension than my top loaded one for example. [/quote] Beyond the nut and/or the bridge can make no difference whatsoever to tension. Tension = length of string between bridge and nut/fret x mass per unit length of string. - [I forgot to put in here the pitch to which the string is tuned.] You may have experienced a difference in compliance but not tension. EDIT: [url="http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm"]http://liutaiomottol.../perception.htm[/url] EDIT2: For clarification

I could do what I do with one, a fretted P bass. However, as well as the fretted P, I have a fretless acoustic bass and an upright, both of which I am actually playing more often than the P. The Lakland Decade gets very little use at the moment. I ought to sell it.

So, there's no such thing as a 'sweetspot'. There's merely different places to put a pickup and each place will be a factor in the overall sound of the bass. An aspect fo the sound of a P bass comes from the position of it's pickup. Same for a J bass, but the pickups are in different palces. And same again for an MM or any other bass. Where you place the pickup makes a difference but the idea of some magical 'sweetspot' - it's nonsense.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1368880894' post='2082586'] I love basses that have a pickup in the 'sweetspot' However I've been wondering recently, its generally accepted that its in between the two jazz pickups on jazz bass, musicman, modulus f/u, sandberg basic all have a single pickup there. These are all standard 34 inch scale. so I wondering, is the sweetspot different on different scale basses? (30, 32, 35 inch?) Stephen [/quote] Surely the so-called sweetspot moves every time you fret a note?

Flats is fine. I've got TI Jazz Flats on one and Rotsound Trubass on another. La Bella Black Nylons work well too. Personally, I hate those bronze acoustic strings. I agree with the rest of Clarky's advice.

Very nice Pier, good luck with that.

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1368703670' post='2080329'] Good grief, come to think of it I've not seen James Joyce in a room with either of then either!! Maybe David Icke is right after all? [/quote] ... or Jerry Jemmott ...

[quote name='PierBea' timestamp='1368659711' post='2080041'] Great comments, everyone: I see the value in all of them. I myself especially agree with EssentialTension's (both in his positive and his negative comments). Be that as it may, I won't be drinking beer for a while (I prefer wine, anyhow, and what a wonderful off-topic this can be)! That is to say that this wonderful bass has a new home in Italy (40th birthday gift to myself). And, yes, it is a dream (IMHO, the sound does match the looks: they are both incredible)! It's been said that we're all different (and I couldn't agree more, thank goodness): to me, this is THE electric bass. Doesn't mean it's perfect or there's nothing I would change. However, even so, this is THE electric bass. Period. Thank you Mark Stickley for being so helpful and courteous! ... and thank you Dennis Galuszka for ... you know ... building this beauty! Ciao, all. Pier PS. Please don't classify this post of mine under "bragging" but, rather, under "happy and in a mood to share this" :-) [/quote] Very good. I've changed my mind about the pickup; it doesn't need to single coil at all.