endorka

[quote name='Oscar South' post='998815' date='Oct 24 2010, 01:21 PM']Two albums for anyone who still has doubts to put them to rest: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Bass-Could-Only-Talk/dp/B000025LOI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287922767&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Bass-Could-On...2767&sr=1-1[/url][/quote] "If This Bass Could Only Talk" by Stanley Clarke... wow... I thought I was the only person in the world who had heard of this! I bought this on tape in the early 90's, it is a great album indeed. Thanks for the link, think I'll order it on CD now :-) Jennifer

Me too :-)

I'm happy to respond, but please remember that what I am saying is highly speculative, and may have limited applicability. As Dave says, it is possible to play a double bass without the thumb touching the back of the neck; indeed, such an exercise can be used to help those with a "white knuckle" grip loosen it up a bit. However - and it is a big however - many people overuse the thumb when playing double bass. The most noticeable instance I see of this is when people play double bass standing up, and they use the thumb as part of the method of holding the instrument up. With a good stance it is possible to minimise this, but even with this, from my observations there is still some considerable thumb effort involved. I would recommend you avoid this. I have used an endpin stand and a tripod stand with my stick type EUB; because there is no way of securely holding the body, I still have to employ some thumb effort to keep the instrument in place. Also to be avoided. The method I have found that places least strain on the thumb is to play the traditional double bass when seated, cello style. By doing this the instrument is entirely supported by the legs and torso, and will stay in place even without your hands placed upon it. In my opinion this offers the most opportunity for placing least strain on the thumb, or indeed the maximum possibility of playing without the thumb resting on the back of the fingerboard. There are a few videos of me playing this way online, here is one; [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cknDtB3rWb0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cknDtB3rWb0[/url] I play this way when using my NS Design EUB with the endpin stand, but because of the lack of lower bouts on this instrument, it is not as stable as a traditional double bass, and therefore more thumb effort must be used. I suspect the only way to get the most from this technique would be to use an EUB with a full frame, or just get a double bass and set the action very low. Jennifer

I like Doddy's idea of turning this around, in the sense of: what would one personally look for in an advanced tutor? A common reason for myself to do this is when I am playing something from a genre that I do not have advanced experience in, such as certain types of classical music. I can usually work out the mechanics of playing these pieces, but of course there is more to it than that. Unwritten laws concerning dynamics, note length, methods of handling passages with tricky bowing, how the music should feel, even the "backstory" behind it to help you play it as the composer intended. In my opinion, these items, and others like them, are what separates the competent from the advanced, both in players and teachers. In this sense, an advanced tutor is someone who has the ability to assist a competent musician to become advanced. Other times, I seek help from a tutor if my conclusion of an areas of study is: "there are several ways in which I could achieve this: which would be the best way forward for me?" . Often I have a good idea of what it should be, and am seeking affirmation/confirmation from a tutor so I know I won't be wasting my time going down blind alleys, or pursuing inefficient learning methods. Another reason is if I am trying to achieve something, and not quite getting there, I try to seek the help of someone who has achieved it. In these situations, it is often the case the one or two nuggets of useful information will solve the problem completely, but it may have taken years for me to discover them myself. Jennifer

I played this on a jazz gig recently, and they had what looked like a chart from one of the Real Books for it, so if you have access to these, have a look there. Jennifer

[quote name='Gareth Hughes' post='990409' date='Oct 16 2010, 05:43 PM']I had a Golden Bullet a few years back, and while I liked the sound of it to record with I could NEVER use it live. I had countless soundmen tell me to turn the mic of within minutes of soundchecking because it was giving them feedback through the main PA before they could get a usable volume from it or my pickup. Ah well.[/quote] I tried it on a gig tonight and have come to the same conclusions. I was using the wee mixer box so could blend the pickup and mic myself - it was possible to get some of the mic into the mix along with the pickup without feedback, but unfortunately the mic seemed to be picking up quite a bit of the other instruments, so I took it out the mix and used only the pickup. I'll give the mic a bash next time I record - can you remember how you oriented it on the instrument? Jennifer

It is fascinating, because once you have managed to get the chordal players away from glaring schoolboy errors such as the clashes caused by two people playing walking basslines - the majority of harmonies that work in the mid & upper registers will not work in the lower register - you can really focus on getting a good arrangement sound. To my ear, it becomes obvious that having too many root notes in a particular harmony leads to a bland & blooming sound. This is one of the things that Jake's mention of rootless chord voicings solves. When these are applied, the music really opens up and sounds far more impressive. Rootless chord voicings to seem to be known most amongst jazz pianists, but they work well in any genre. When informed of them, I find that a keyboard player with good ears and an open mind will also find the concept useful. Jennifer

Really looking forward to this - we'll be playing all of Horse's debut album, "The Same Sky", some B-sides from that era, as well as a selection of newer songs. It's the first date of the UK tour, and would be great to see some Basschatters there! Book tickets at [url="http://www.randan.org"]http://www.randan.org[/url] Jennifer

[quote name='Beedster' post='989264' date='Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM']I'm getting to grips with DB amplification and recording. I now have a DB mic (K&K)[/quote] Is that the Golden Bullet mic? I've taken mine off the shelf and am experimenting with it now. It sounds good, but as others have stated is more prone to feedback than the pickups. Jennifer

[quote name='KevB' post='987798' date='Oct 14 2010, 10:25 AM']Wouldn't worry about it, first rule of live bands backing a known front artist - *no one* is looking at the bass player [/quote] This was the exception that proves the rule! :-) Jennifer

Well, since you asked... The following link contains the interview with Horse, then the band starts at around 6:40 . [url="http://video.stv.tv/bc/catchup-ac2-thehour-part4-20101013-1725/"]http://video.stv.tv/bc/catchup-ac2-thehour...-20101013-1725/[/url] The lack of smiles - ah yes. That happens when I concentrate. And believe me, when playing double bass on telly with no opportunity for overdubs, I was concentrating! I've been getting pelters about this from everyone who who has seen it. Perhaps a wee smile at the end wouldn't have been too difficult after all :-) Jennifer

They are passive... but they have a higher output than many active basses. I've recently had some of these fitted to a five string Squire Precision (which has jazz style pickups - I don't know why) and they sound incredible. Jennifer

[quote name='Bottle' post='979148' date='Oct 6 2010, 09:56 AM']Pretty sure Alex C wrote a post (maybe in the Wiki) about fundamental frequency vs harmonic series that determined the note we heard (psycho-acoustics). Or it might have been on TalkBass - can't remember, but I'm sure someone will be along to point me at it IIRC the conclusion was that reproducing the fundamental wasn't as important as reproducing the harmonic series accurately.[/quote] Sure - even if the fundamental is missing, if the rest of the harmonic series is in place, the brain "fills in" the missing fundamental for you, and you perceive the note correctly. It's a psychoacoustic trick, in effect. Lots of bassists back in the 60's / 70's, even 80's played in the midrange of the instrument, I suspect because they either explicitly or implicitly released this, especially on the poorer gear they had, and played the register of the instrument that sounded fullest to them. However, I would dispute the assertion that the fundamental isn't important. It may or may not be; what I can guarantee is that a low B reproduced with the fundamental sounds different to the low reproduced without it, despite the above psychoacoustic trick. I remember the first time I heard the low B on my bass reproduced accurately on powerful studio monitors. Amazing - like the low notes on a church organ. I realised at that point that these low notes are to be used with caution, as on most equipment their true depth will not be reproduced, but on a few systems they will, and the effect to the listener in each case will be very different. If you want your basslines to come across consistently, you must take this into account. Jennifer

[quote name='Bottle' post='976845' date='Oct 4 2010, 11:12 AM']Secondly, needs some serious power in the rig to articulate the low A - just sounds a bit muddy through the 4x10 alone, in fact everything below the E (7th fret, Low A string) doesn't really have the definition I was perhaps looking for at the start of the exercise. Just wondering if it's the hardware or not (passive P/J bass, maybe could benefit from active electronics?) - pups could be the weak link in the chain. [/quote] You could replace the pickups & strings, and debate about passive vs. active electronics, but none of this will affect the potential weak link in the end of your chain: your speakers. I'm guessing, but I would suspect that none of them will get anywhere near handling the fundamental frequency of your low A. Many of them probably won't even accurately reproduce the fundamental of a normal E string. They may do this for the normal A string, however. Or maybe not. Check the specifications of your speaker cabs to determine the lowest frequency they can accurately reproduce. I believe the usual cut off point for this measurement is when they pass over -6 db of normal output. Take manufacturers claims with a pinch of salt! For reference, here are the fundamental frequencies of interest; A0 = 28Hz B0 = 31Hz E1 = 41Hz (normal E string) A1 = 55Hz I've used my ears to measure this effect on some of my own speakers; many of them start to lose the fundamenal at Bb1, i.e. 58Hz, including a 1x15" speaker! I don't think I've ever heard a low B properly reproduced on a bass amp/speaker combination. From some PA systems, yes. From some studio montors, yes. But never from a bassamp. But I am prepared to be corrected! Jennifer

[quote name='Marvin' post='973280' date='Sep 30 2010, 10:13 PM']EDIT: I've just been watching/listening to a few live clips and damn they were good.[/quote] Indeed, great band with some great tunes. The first time I heard the "Kick" album it totally blew me away. Jennifer

[quote name='Marvin' post='972143' date='Sep 29 2010, 10:11 PM']Good I thought, BUT, I've listened to it at least a dozens times and the bass is so hidden in the mix it's barely audible. I've checked the usual TAB websites, but I'm not sure how useful some of the TABs are. I haven't actually tried playing it yet.[/quote] Look for a live version on Youtube - I was listening to one recently, I think from Wembley (sp?) arena, and the bass was more prominent in the mix. Jennifer

[quote name='Doddy' post='971296' date='Sep 29 2010, 12:36 AM']Thus defeating the whole purpose of transcribing. The whole point of transcribing is to listen to something and then notate what you hear. Persevere with it,without tabs,and you'll get it eventually.[/quote] I agree with Doddy, but perhaps with some clarification. When transcribing as part of a learning process, I find it useful to compare other people's transcriptions with my own as a means of error checking, but only after I have completed mine. If you short circuit this process, then you are cheating yourself, and improvements in your transcription technique will take longer to happen. If you are having real difficulty with this tune, perhaps it would be best to work on something not quite as complex or clearer, and revisit it in the future when you are more experienced at transcribing. On the other hand, it may be that you need to learn this song for a gig and are running out of time, in which case it is perfectly valid to seek out other people's transcriptions! Jennifer

[quote name='PaulKing' post='971562' date='Sep 29 2010, 11:44 AM']Yeah that Ultra makes a bit of difference, but not much.[/quote] I think the difference it makes can vary, for example I find it doesn't make too much difference for pizzicato, but substantially cuts down the volume of bowed notes. Given that bowed notes are usually more obnoxious in terms of volume and perceived pitch, my use of this mute is appreciated by those around me :-) Maybe the efficacy of it also varies with different basses/strings? I like the bungs you made for those f-holes, far more aesthetically pleasing than the approach I use to reduce feedback when playing amplified in loud situations: stuffing dusters into the f-holes. Jennifer

[quote name='TheRev' post='964383' date='Sep 22 2010, 12:39 PM']Hmm. I've ticked the 'I generally have trouble with feedback' box because if I'm with the blues band and space in stage is limited forcing me to stand in front of my amp, then Barbara is going to squeal like a piggy.[/quote] No idea if you've tried this already, but elevating your speaker really high in this situation, such as on a small table, or even better, a milk crate and a table, will really help reduce feedback as you will not be firing all these bass frequencies right into the body of the instrument. Jennifer

[quote name='civictiger' post='968699' date='Sep 26 2010, 06:59 PM']would I have to cut the match-stick up? I am really really not a wood type of person![/quote] Nah! Stick the match in the hole, snap the remainder off, and you're done. It this still isn't sufficient to grip the screw, repeat again with another match. Jennifer

To the OP: I do understand where you are coming from, and sometimes it can be disappointing to not be allowed to contribute in the way you think is best. Even more so when you *know* it is best! However, my perception is that when I am getting involved in a new musical situation, particularly with people I don't know, I do my best to keep my opinions to myself, and to listen to what they want. It doesn't always come easy, but often I've learned a lot from listening to other people taking different approaches to what I would naturally do. Once you get to know them better and they have learned to trust you and know you can do what is expected, then that is the time to start offering opinions that may differ from theirs. They will likely be far more receptive to them under those circumstances. Jennifer

I'm agnostic about the matter of plucking higher/lower on the fingerboard, as others have commented you get a different tone from doing this. I've noted that Bebop type jazz players tend to go for the end of the fingerboard, as they often had non existant amplification and it produces a louder/more focussed/more overtoney sound, wheareas further up the fingerboard emphasises the fundamental more, but will be softer. I'm not agnostic about perpendicular plucking in the bass guitar style; you just don't get a good & pronounced sound this way, and it should only be used as a lost resort, i.e. in a passage so fast it's the only way you can do it. Sideways on all the way is the way! There is another thread disucussing some approaches and pitfalls of the sideways pizz thing. Jennifer

Cool... I played there a few months ago with Horse, it's a great venue with a well stocked fridge. Jennifer

Nice work, love the tone, intonation and articulation. Just the right dynamic in my opinion. What strings were you using at this point? Jennifer

[quote name='crez5150' post='966754' date='Sep 24 2010, 02:42 PM']I think it's a case of how big the stages are you play on..... most pub bands struggle to hear what they play as they are virtually standing on top of their amp. I play a lot of high end weddings and fortunately am normally around 10-15 ft in front of my 2 x 12 stack so hear pretty well what I'm playing.[/quote] Ha, good point. I tend to lurk around in the close vicinity of my amp irrespective of the size of stage, so I would imagine this colours my perception somewhat. Jennifer