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[quote name='SteveK' post='701885' date='Jan 5 2010, 05:15 PM']It may have sounded good to you, but possibly to the student and tutor there may have been vast room for improvement.[/quote] It wisnae me though! :-) Jennifer

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='701824' date='Jan 5 2010, 04:28 PM']I always told students 'if you haven't got that knot of frustration in your stomach when you are practising, you're probably not working on anything new'[/quote] Yup. Someone was once speaking to me about visiting a music college, where he was amazed by the quality of music he heard being played when walking past the practice rooms. My opinion was that if they were practicing properly, they would not sound good, as they should be practicing things they can't play as opposed to things they can. In saying that, it can sometimes be difficult to ascertain when it is appropriate to move on to the next exercise. Just exactly how well do you have to play it? I still often don't know the answer. Jennifer

[quote name='Marvin' post='701621' date='Jan 5 2010, 02:15 PM']Some of the theory I've read tends to ' make jumps ' and assumes the reader has made the same leap the author has. This sometimes leaves gaps in understanding that unless filled, inhibit you from progressing any further.[/quote] In truth, this has happened with just about evey book I have studied on the subject of music sooner or later. It took me quite a few years to realise that this is the point where I needed to get someone to explain it to me - more often than not it is easier than it at first appears. I think that if one is to study any subject in depth, this is going to happen. Oddly enough, I find quite often that going out of my natural comfort zone and overcoming these difficulties is what has *really* improved me as a person and a player - being good at stuff you can do easily is not the path to enlightenment :-) Jennifer

Update: I was doing an orchestra gig about 3 or 4 weeks ago and one of the bass players had a carbon fibre bow, which he has used on professional gigs for some time. He let me try it, and it felt and sounded great. In addition to this, the frog was the correct dimensions for my hand, unlike my current bow. He bought it from the yitamusic store on Ebay for approx £100 - it is the "Top Model A Carbon Fiber Double Bass Bow French" model. I bought one myself for £109 and have been using it for a couple of weeks with great results. It has a nice balance - the only way I can describe it is that it feels lighter yet more substantial than my old bow, and produces a softer, thicker sound. A real benefit thanks to the correct sized frog is that literally overnight I was able to execute off the string strokes, tremolo, and fast passages far more efficiently than before. It looks pretty cool too, in my opinion. Great value for money. Jennifer

[quote name='OldGit' post='671999' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:02 PM']It's part of my job as the person talking to the punter to help a B&G, for example, understand the problems they may face if they have a venue with a limiter. We often do that and some weddings move venues after talking to us. We also do it for marquee weddings. I understand you point, Jennifer, but sometimes they just book the wrong band for the venue. It's not always about volume, or ego, control in the band.[/quote] Thanks for the illumination - you make many good points, I just thought the thread was getting somewhat too black and white in its assesment of these devices. Perhaps it is better for a venue to be allowed to have quiet live music as opposed to no live music whatsoever, and if these devices allow this to happen they may not be so universally bad. I'm sure we all have experience of being the wrong band booked for a venue... Jennifer

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='669947' date='Nov 30 2009, 01:04 PM']Personally (and i know im in the minority) we would never turn a gig down just because of a sound meter. yes, its a headache sometimes but so is turning down £200+ each. We make sure the bride and groom know the meter is there and what will happen if it trips but end of the day, its not our fault if it does and we arent even playing.[/quote] I am absolutely in agreement with this - I just can't afford to turn away lucrative gigs because or the requirement to play quietly. Playing quietly is no bother anyway, unless you have a numbskull drummer who is incapable of playing with dynamics. Has it occured to anyone that there may be a genuine reason for the installation of these devices, i.e. the venue was being irresponsible with respect to noise levels and ruining the lives of people living nearby? I've played in venues with these, and they've tripped on us. So, adjust volume levels downwards, (including the drummer), then proceed. Easy. I don't see what the fuss is about. Jennifer

[quote name='Kongo' post='667855' date='Nov 27 2009, 11:30 PM']I'm happy with what I've got, I was just looking for help to sit down and use these books. They contain knowledge that I must have...but I have difficulty going through them without getting side tracked.[/quote] As others have pointed out, to do this you have to find a way of staying focussed on the goals you are trying to achieve. It can sometimes be difficult to develop this, but it does feed on itself; if you manage to do it for a short time, the benefits will likely be obvious to you, and something in your mind may "click" and it will become easier to keep up with your practicing, because you know the rewards are greater than noodling. You must set goals and stick to them, even if you don't feel like doing it; professional music in this regard can be just like any job, sometimes you just don't want to do something for whatever reason, but you have to, end of story. Another way to look on it is from a monetary perspective; the more you practice, the better the gigs you get, the more money you earn. Think of the ££££££ signs when your motivation is waning. If it truly is impossible to develop the discipline yourself, then I recommend getting a tutor you really respect, and have them set goals for you, in other words to impose the disciplined approach. The humiliation from not being able to play a piece you were expected to learn in front of someone you respect can also be a powerful incentive. Jennifer

[quote name='TKenrick' post='661991' date='Nov 22 2009, 06:18 PM']8. A decent set of headphones can help things considerably, particularly when working on bass lines.[/quote] All good advice, and another thing the headphones are good for is substantially reducing the amount of computer fan/hum noise that reaches your ears if you are transcribing from a computer. Computers can be surprisingly noisy, but we think we get used to it, but it still makes transcibing more difficult. Must lower the signal/noise ratio I expect. Jennifer

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='661956' date='Nov 22 2009, 05:39 PM']Its just a bit annoying as I laid the bass down specifically so the soundpost wouldn't collapse when I removed the bridge! Didn't realise it would fall anyway. Live and learn I guess.[/quote] It's too late now, but for future reference, the thing to prevent the soundpost falling over when removing the bridge is to lay the bass down on it's back (as you did), then put something heavy on the top of the bass, near the bridge, to provide pressure on the table before the strings etc. are slackened. I used a big amp head for this, on top of a towel to protect the finish on the bass. Jennifer

Thanks for the reply Jon, most informative. It really does sound like the carbon fibre bow you mention is worthy of further investigation, they seem to be selling the same one [url="http://www.mjbl.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:collegno&catid=5:bows&Itemid=9"]here[/url] for £318. Jennifer

I agree that the Stagg sounds very good, especially for the price, but the way the strings on the instrument are setup (if memory serves me correctly) is closer together than a standard DB. Also, the arch of the bridge and curvature across the neck are less pronounced than a standard DB. Both of these make bowing more difficult than it should be. Sure, it can be done, but it's just more difficult, and if you're looking for something to learn arco on you're going to need all the help you can get. I agree about the better usability of the EUB in "stupid loud" situations, although I've found it possible to amplify the DB very effectively in moderately loud situations, as long as you have a good pickup. Poorer pickups will turn such an endeavour into a nightmare. Jennifer

Now that you mention it, it was Aviom devices we used on the gig I was writing about, amongst others. They are brilliant. Jennifer

[quote name='chrkelly' post='659747' date='Nov 19 2009, 11:05 PM'].... the sennheiser hd25s are also a popular choice...[/quote] I've used these in the pit too, and they worked very well. It wasn't necessary to use them for every song - not all of them had a click track, and there was sufficient monitoring in the pit to play without them - but I actually preferred the sound when using them. We were able to create our own monitoring mix on that gig though, which was amazing. It's a long shot but maybe you could persuade your theatre to go down that route? No idea how much it costs unfortunately. Jennifer

[quote name='jude_b' post='657600' date='Nov 17 2009, 10:59 PM']My (limited) experience of electric uprights is that they're nothing like as difficult to play as "proper" uprights and it's possibly easier to wing it on an electric upright without developing correct DB technique. So going to electric upright first might be a bit misleading.[/quote] I'd say yes and no to the above... yes because an electric upright can usually be setup with a lower action than a double bass, so it can be easier in that way to begin with, and you always have an amp, which means you don't have the hard work of developing a good acoustic tone, even though you should. No, because if the scale length of the neck is the same as a 3/4 upright, you'll need to use Simandl 1-2-4 fingerings on the electric upright anyway, unless your hands are huge. Most importantly, as I moved from electric upright to double bass, I found the double bass easier, because it is more physically stable, making it easier to play in tune. In reality I could only progress up to a certain point with the electric upright, to move further on required a proper double bass, *especially* with arco playing. I reckon you are correct though, in the sense that to begin with, the electric upright can be easier, although in the long term I think this is not the case. As for shifting the instrument around, I've moved the double bass, a keyboard, myself, and the keyboard player, in a new Mini. At a gig on Saturday there was the double bass, my amplifier, myself, keyboard player, and full size stage piano, in a Fiesta. So no worries there! Jennifer

[quote name='bumfrog' post='651800' date='Nov 11 2009, 05:24 PM']as technically impressive as it is, doesn't do anything for me and I just want to tell him to leave his fecking tuning pegs alone for more than a few seconds.[/quote] I must admit to sharing some of this sentiment - does anyone else find that watching him bounces you out of the listening experience somewhat? Perhaps it is best listened to without the visuals. Jennifer

[quote name='bill1988' post='649938' date='Nov 9 2009, 06:29 PM']Yeah will give that a try, bass exciter seems to be the general consensus. Not getting much more bottom out of the amp unfortunately, will need to try an outboard pre at some point as well.[/quote] I think the earlier posters are correct - from what I recall, the Ampeg 8x10 speakers (I have no idea about the amp) do not reproduce the fundamental on the lower strings at all. Here are the specs for the 8x10E; Frequency Response (-3 dB): 58 Hz - 5 KHz Which means the lowest note the speaker cabinet can reproduce accurately (including the fundamental frequency) is the Bb on your A string, and even this is probably optimistic, given that manufacturer's specs should be taken with a pinch of salt. With any note lower than this you'll only be hearing overtones, not the fundamental. The ear is fooled into thinking it hears the true pitch of the bass, but it doesn't. The upshot of this is that you are wasting your time boosting the lower frequences (<58Hz) with a preamp, as the speaker is incapable of reproducing them. You'll just be wasting power and likely bring the onset of distortion closer. I'd say you have two options - 1) Get a speaker that can reproduce the fundamentals, but be careful what you wish for - a truly represented low E is a thunderous thing. 2) Find some other way of increasing the perception of deepness, such as boosting the low mids. Monitor the results from the audience perspective, not your own, as they will be different. Jennifer

[quote name='Doddy' post='650309' date='Nov 10 2009, 02:13 AM']There have been Bass solo pieces since the 1700's. I don't see people dismissing players like Dragonetti or Bottesini as 'solo w**nkery',even though they performed pieces written for solo bass. But,players like Wooten and Caron get slated all the time for doing what is essentially the same thing-just 300 years later.[/quote] I have heard the Bottesini pieces dismissed in the way your describe - I can't remember the words exactly, but the feeling was that even the best solo type compositions or concertos for double bass are not the equal of the equivalents for, say, cello or clarinet. I think there is some truth in this. In addition, playing in the upper register on the double bass is very difficult compared with playing the same on the cello. Getting good timbre and pitch takes a *lot* of practice, and so with this combined with the point in the paragraph above, playing double bass concertos is viewed by some as a fairly academic exercise, with limited applications in reality. HOWEVER, Edgar Meyer still sounds wonderful :-) My own current preference for the positioning of double bass in the ensemble is akin to that of the liberation of the double bass in modern classicial music - c/f the cello in Bartok's quartets, or the double bass part in Bartok's Divertimento for string ensemble. Fiendishly complex lines heavily intertwined with the rest of the instruments, where everything combines to a magnificent whole. Jennifer

I agree with the above - if you are interested in music performance, in my experience, 99% of your personal outcome is predicated on the tutor you have, your relationship with them, and your willingness to practice. These factors can make or break a music performance degree. Caveat emptor: some places of study may have great tutors on paper, but due to other commitments they are not always available for regular study. This can cause difficulties. I would advise consulting current or previous students to discover what the reality of a course is, versus the sunny prospectus point of view. Sometimes it is possible to arrange tutor(s) of your own preference and have the institution pay for them - a thing of incredible value if used wisely, and perhaps worth enquiring about. Jennifer

Jon, what you are saying about the carbon fibre bow is really interesting, as I've been considering getting one of those for some time. I've been using a cheapie bow (£80) for several years, which is not too bad, but when I tried a decent wood one last week (value around £300), it made a huge difference to my playing. Everything was much easier! Would you say the carbon fibre bow at around £300 plays to the same standard as your average wood bow of the same price? Are there any negatives about it? Jennifer

There's always the option of getting work in commercially oriented function bands/musical theatre/sessions (or similar) to pay the bills, then depping out these gigs when you are working with the originals band. Some advantages are; 1) Your "day job" is playing music, and your musicianship will improve as a consequence. 2) You'll make contacts in the industry. 3) You may become more aware about commerical realities of the music business. 4) Taking time out to play in your originals band will be ok - depping out gigs to other musicians is an accepted practice. But it would be a good idea to finish your degree... as someone once said "You should always have a Plan B". Jennifer

There may well be parts where you have many, many, many bars of rests, then are expected to come in at the correct moment. This can be quite difficult, especially if someone mucks up the timing when you are trying to count through it, or an actor mixes up their lines, or whatever. This can be further compounded if the rest bars are in odd time signatures, or there is a lot of rubato (see Sweeney Todd). My answer is to notate the spoken line (or a significant musical event) at a known point before my cue, so I'm ready to play. The band call is the best time to sort this out. But still count... Jennifer

When I auditioned to study music I had no previous music educational experience, so went in to the audition completely in the dark. I had arranged a piece for bass guitar and drums that involved playing the head from "Big Noise From Winnetka", followed by solos, quotes & sections from various tunes from different kinds of music, most at different speeds - inspired by the version Vic Pitt performs, but with a different feel and tunes. Things like "Live and Let Die", "A-Team Theme", "Blue Monday", and "Peaches" were included, and many others. It was a bit of an epic, and really good fun! They seemed impressed with it at the audition, but stopped me 3/4 of the way through and said "erm, that's great, but can you play a blues?" :-) So the above advice is definitely good, although my unorthodox approach was also successful! Good luck with the auditions. Jennifer

All good advice so far. Some wise words I've taken on board along the way; - "a good musician is one who can do the simple stuff well. A great musician is one who can do the simple stuff well, and a little bit more" Another thing I've found beneficial is to try to step outside of your own little segment of the music and to listen in from outside, as it were, and to realise your place in the scheme of things. It can be a humbling experience, but you'll be a better musician for it. As others have alluded to, there is probably a balance to be struck between self criticism and self belief if you wish to make consistent progress. Jennifer

I concur in part with Doddy- while I find the sound of my NS eub to be a good approximation of amplified double bass, both arco and pizz (I have proper DB strings on it, and it is setup with a high action), the lack of bouts is a real problem. I play my double bass cello style, with the bouts against my legs and torso, and it provides a very stable platform. The lack of bouts on the EUB means I can't play it like this, and consequently the is neck prone to wobble, and it is therefore more difficult to play in tune, especially arco. For this reason I tend not to use the EUB these days. Sorting out decent pickup and ampification for the DB has eliminated one of the advantages of the EUB; the only advantage the EUB has left is ease of travel. Jennifer

Thanks for the replies, and for looking for the lead Steve, it would have been good to power up the unit to see if it is working before replacing the socket, but it looks like that's the way to go now. I should be able to solder it myself, will be interesting to hear the result. I'm in the "like H&H" camp; my first proper amp was an H&H bassamp 100, which is still going strong albeit with a crackly pot or two. It has an excellent sound and is surprisingly powerful for 100W. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a gig if one of my other lighter & smaller amps malfunctioned. Jennifer