Pete Academy

Err...yeah, see the original thread. I'd have it, anyway.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='702559' date='Jan 6 2010, 10:37 AM'][url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=72385&hl="]Psst![/url] [/quote] Damn!

Here's a link to the new Fender 50th Anniversary Jazz. Looks amazing! Very limited edition. [url="http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=442"]http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=442[/url]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='702012' date='Jan 5 2010, 07:28 PM']"It sounds to me like you were given too rich a diet too quickly. In reality, all notes can be played against all chords - they all result in individual sounds/textures that can legitimately be used in the creative process. By KNOWING what each not sounds like against each chord and by KNOWING why and how it functions, you will be able to make informed decisions about what to do with each individual piece of independent information. Knowing that a dominant seventh chord resolves to a Major chord a fifth below (say G7 to Cmaj7) means you can always hear that coming a mile off. Knowing that it can also resolve to a Major seventh chord a major third below (say G7 to Ebmaj7), creating a completely different feeling, immediately gives you choices. The more knowledge you have, the more choices you have. A diatonic major scale over a dominamt seventh chord or a diminshed scale implying a flattened ninth? Or an augmented scale over a dominant? All different, all correct and all options you can use as a composer, orchestrator or improviser. But you can't digest this stuff in a couple of lessons." Aw, come on Bilbo...tell me something I don't already know. [/quote] Come on Bilbo, you've kept it quiet for too long. Tell everyone about your secret Quo tribute band.

"It sounds to me like you were given too rich a diet too quickly. In reality, all notes can be played against all chords - they all result in individual sounds/textures that can legitimately be used in the creative process. By KNOWING what each not sounds like against each chord and by KNOWING why and how it functions, you will be able to make informed decisions about what to do with each individual piece of independent information. Knowing that a dominant seventh chord resolves to a Major chord a fifth below (say G7 to Cmaj7) means you can always hear that coming a mile off. Knowing that it can also resolve to a Major seventh chord a major third below (say G7 to Ebmaj7), creating a completely different feeling, immediately gives you choices. The more knowledge you have, the more choices you have. A diatonic major scale over a dominamt seventh chord or a diminshed scale implying a flattened ninth? Or an augmented scale over a dominant? All different, all correct and all options you can use as a composer, orchestrator or improviser. But you can't digest this stuff in a couple of lessons." Aw, come on Bilbo...tell me something I don't already know.

[quote name='Doddy' post='701608' date='Jan 5 2010, 02:07 PM']You'll never be able to sound the same as Jamerson-even if you were to play the 'Funk Machine'. I know it's a pedantic answer,but it's true.[/quote] Quite true, I'm afraid.

[quote name='Doddy' post='701173' date='Jan 5 2010, 12:02 AM']A mate of mine has got a great knowledge of theory,and regularly tours the world with some of the biggest names in Jazz,has done some major 'Pop' tours, is an in demand clinician,and is also a busy producer and MD. [/quote] Ah, maybe...but has he played the Green Star in Smallthorne?

One of my best mates, who I've helped and supplied bass parts for in the last 30 years or more, doesn't understand anything about music, other than if it sounds right, then it must be right. He plays chords on the keyboard and hasn't a clue what they are. But he writes great songs (I was in an original funk band with him in the 90s). His day job was selling carpets for Carpetright in Stoke for 13 years. Him and a writing partner have 3 songs on the new Robbie album, one of which is touted for a new single (Morning Sun). Just thought I'd mention this.

[quote name='silddx' post='701136' date='Jan 4 2010, 11:33 PM']Yes, but can you hear what those shapes sound like within the context of a piece of music?[/quote] Er, yeah, I guess so.

[quote name='Toddy' post='700271' date='Jan 4 2010, 10:27 AM']Hey Pete,, I believe Im in much the same boat,, I tried to learn theory early on in my playing career and never got round to using it really,, 99%of the time I get asked to learn a track, learn it by ear and remember the pattern on the fretboard,,However I am good enough to deal with the change the key situation and have no issues with busking or jamming along to any track.. If anything still isnt right it gets sorted out in rehearsal Im trying to learn to read again but TBH in the last 20yrs Ive never been given sheet music to read and it wont happen with my current bands or when I get asked to guest in the studio. I also play in a well known tribute and am passionate about doing justice to the songs, But in answer to your original question, suppose its what you need it for,, I personally couldnt sit in an orchestra pit next week,, but that guy probably couldnt bounce around on stage at Butlins...... Strangely a lot of my past playing buddies have gone into teaching music and music tech at colleges etc,but Im still the only one who brings home the bacon by actually playing live. Saying that I am genuinely interested in learning more,,and considering how much time I spend on here these days,,, guess Im running out of excuses.... [/quote] What tribute band do you play for?

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='700269' date='Jan 4 2010, 10:26 AM']I am not going to say too much on this because I get irritated by anyone that advocates ignorance in favour of knowledge - it just doesn't compute. For me, the theory allows you to be a musician and not just a bass player. I love music more than almost anything and cannot get by without it. I love everything to do with it and have done since I was about 10. Why wouldn't I want to know theory? Why wouldn't I want to learn to read the dots? The only thing that stops me from spending every waking hour musiking is the fact that our society doesn't value it as much as I do so forces me to earn a living another way. I have played Aja cold from a chart. I strongly suspect it wasn't as good as it would have been had the players involved rehearsed it for days but it hung together. Same with Fagen's 'The Goodbye Look'. I have played shows and big band gigs reading every note from a page and done whole gigs where I didn't know a single tune but busked the whole thing. You get the widest basket of skills you can to make you ready for the fray. It keeps you sharp.[/quote] Good post.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='700254' date='Jan 4 2010, 10:09 AM']As I said in an earlier post, learning by ear should not be underestimated, it is after all the immediate connection to the music, whereas in the written form it is once removed. Ultimately one is not better than the other but both will serve you well in many (especially pro) circumstances. Pete I totally get that you love what you're doing and I can see that you have the ability to put some of yourself into the music (if you think about that, it's impossible not to) the only point at which I disagree is your suggestion that you're too long in the tooth, never! What I think is important is that you are able to do the job and do it well, with or without theory and whether you were to expand your wider knowledge is a matter of pure choice.[/quote] You're right...I'm probably just being a bit lazy.

[quote name='Rayman' post='700239' date='Jan 4 2010, 09:44 AM']I know no theory at all, none. I started playing bass in the early 80's and taught myself by playing along to the Stranglers at first, then onto Talking Heads etc, all learnt by ear. I'm now 44, and learn the sets for the band the same way, totally by ear, it's the only way I can do it, forget TABs, they mean nothing to me, let alone charts, but give me the song on an iPod to listen to, and I'll have it sussed in minutes (most of the time). I see in the interview with Stuart Zender in the new BGM he says he sees shapes on the fretboard rather than notes.....well that's me exactly, I just remember the shapes on the board for each song, I really haven't a clue what notes I'm playing most of the time.[/quote] I learn things by shapes, too.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='700195' date='Jan 4 2010, 02:25 AM']Just another thought to add to this thread, and it's an observation of principal. The question is: Does being (as Pete put it) pretty clueless about theory matter? I think if you learn music that you then regurgitate for a performance it's ok, but if you learn the parts and that is it, then you are at the edge of your ability. I prefer to be well within my abilities so that I can put all my energy into something simple. To my mind it follows that with that mindset I will do the job better. So when I learn the SD stuff, I play the songs over and over and learn them by rote and then I will mess with alternatives, then I'll learn to sing the melodies and the harmonies, then I'll check the voicings on the keys, in H Gang I also transcribed, rehearsed and performed the backing vocals, with me and 2 girl singers. I can sing all the guitar solos, I know how most of the chord sequences are spelled out in theoretical terms. Having that complete view of the music that I'm involved in (I tend to do it with all the projects I do) makes for a sympathy with the music that I think serves to enhance my grasp of my role within it. Being honest, I love it and care about it... mainly because it gives and has give such great joy in my whole life. So the basic human principal at the core of what I'm trying to say is another question: Why wouldn't you want to do [i]everything[/i] as well as you possibly can?[/quote] Good reply again, Jake. I too care about the music, and that helps. We've just re-learned Aja, Babylon Sisters, and Caves Of Altamira. I try to put enough of 'myself' in the parts to make it more enjoyable, but without detracting from the songs. As for doing everything...well I think I'm a bit long in the tooth. And as Steven Wright once said: 'You can't have everything. Besides, where would you put it?

[quote name='foal30' post='700112' date='Jan 3 2010, 11:17 PM']heh I took my '83 Steinberger to Jazz School and they were fighting over it and it wasn't just about stopping me playing it is it sensible to not learn to read and write English? if Music is a language (as opposed to strictly a "feeling") should we not converse in as many of it's dialects as possible theory is not to the exclusion of ear training or technique or groove or improvisation it's one part of what can make us musical artists arguments that imply theory hampers other aspects of musicality have limited reality in my playing history in fact, with near uniformity, it is the opposite the applies those who love their instrument enough to slog through the hard work of theory are often the most interesting and joyful people to participate musically with Very good reply. Er, do you mind me asking? Are you a poet?[/quote]

I think the first reaction when we don't like something is to say it's sh*t. I try to just say 'I don't like it' instead. But everyone's entitled, I suppose. It's the tw*ats on YouTube that post mailcious comments for the fun of it that really gets my goat. Mainly yanks. Oh well, cue 'yankist' comments.

I know how damn frustrating it is when you hear a funk tune from a film and can't place it. I had exactly the same problem when I watched 'Lesbo Nymphos 3' last night.

F*ck me, what an amazing track! I can't believe I missed this stuff!!! And what a slap sound

Are you sure it's not just incidental music and not a band track?

Can you find a link to the clip on Youtube or something? If so, I'm sure I might be able to help.

How could we leave this out? Amazing live version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHf7DvVpeiU

I refuse to let this thread die. Mingo Fishtrap. The bass player is great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W5f01TOz54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y8r5cX9fCw Kid Creole. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYjAxj6ss0 Ozomatli. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN9vfaP0Jok Headhunters. As funky as it ever gets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAfVsuVEYD0

Fantastic post!