maxrossell

What exactly is jazz? I only ask because I know sod-all about it, and I suspect that I listen to a few acts that could be considered jazz. Like, hard rock: "A driving, energetic style of rock n' roll music usually in 4/4, with a mid-tempo feel and based around loud, distorted electric guitars and basic, aggressively-played drum beats. The main exponents of hard rock include bands such as AC/DC, Van Halen and Guns N' Roses." Can someone throw together something like that which would broadly sum up how to recognise Jazz?

[quote name='12stringbassist' post='481499' date='May 6 2009, 10:51 PM']As an owner of two "top range" 'Wicks, I'd prefer to see the logo on the Rockbasses clearly defined as visibly different from a first division Wick. Perhaps they could put the W in a circle, or something similar.[/quote] Why's that? I mean, you'll still be the owner of two MIG, exotic tonewood 'wicks. Rockbass buyers won't be. There will arguably be more difference between MIC Rockwoods and MIG 'wicks, even if they look very similar, than there are between Mex Fenders and US Fenders, which from a distance look identical. But I've never heard a US Fender user say that he wishes that Mexican Fenders were more clearly identified as "second division".

This is purely my own taste, but I find the site a bit wordy. I think I'd prefer it if the core text (i.e. the marketing stuff, the tech stuff is fine) was a bit more direct and to the point. Also I do like the homestyle simplicity of it (i.e. it doesn't have flash explosions and automatic music players and w***ing dragons popping up all over the place), but I think it could do with some more images, some pro-looking gear porn, basically. Also, since it's a boutique operation, maybe some more stuff about the manufacture process and all that.

[quote name='mrdirtyrob' post='481027' date='May 6 2009, 02:30 PM']It's not just you dude- I've set myself a challenge of my next bass having the smallest carbon footprint possible and being made of the most sustainable wood possible. Which will mean no expensive hardwoods but also no cheap asian manufacturing. hmmmmm.[/quote] Make it yourself out of some of your own furniture! I'm kidding.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='481024' date='May 6 2009, 02:22 PM'][i]That's[/i] what I'm interested in (in bold). You've mentioned conducting an ensemble in a performance of your own music, without having notated the music in the traditional way. So how did you communicate to the performers exactly what it was you wanted them to do? Graphic score? Sing a line to them and get them to play it back? Mock up the piece in Cubase or something, and give them the recording to figure it out from?[/quote] Combination of everything really. Basically when I score, I do it with a computer and a notepad. I usually have some sort of midi setup with a selection of instruments, from orchestral to modern, that I can use to try lines, melodies, rhythms, harmonies, all that kind of stuff. Or sometimes I'll just record a load of guitar lines and go from there. I'll cut a rough demo, either of the whole thing, or a series of sketches, and from that I'll make notes of a combination of plain English and letters and so on (or sometimes tab for chords, or sometimes sketches of drum patterns, or what have you), and this is what I'll bring to the orchestra or to the band or to whoever I'm working with. If I'm in a hurry to get a performance together I'll cut the whole demo so they can hear it and I'll give them clear notes explaining their parts in the piece. If it's more about the collaboration with the orchestra I'll try to keep it as open and spontaneous as possible, only bring sketched recordings in and make decisions and changes when we're actually in a rehearsal situation, going from the orchestra's reactions. Ideally I prefer to do it that way so it's a proper collaboration, not just me telling people what to play and how to play it. It's a bit of an esoteric mish-mash, but most of the time I'm not dealing with Rachmaninov-level stuff and I've rarely worked with more than fifteen people at once.

[quote name='rslaing' post='480943' date='May 6 2009, 01:17 PM']And BTW maxrossell, regarding your post insinuating I think I am superior to anyone (and your other personal insults), I certainly know I am not, as do a number of other people on this forum that know me.[/quote] Okay, well, just for future reference, that's how it comes very strongly across. [quote]I just happen to feel very strongly about people not just having instrumental skills etc, but the ability to have a greater understanding of music which can add to their talents. Being able to read music gives you that understanding/comprehension, and I'm sorry, but unless you can read music, I don't think you would know what I meant.[/quote] Try me. Not everyone who doesn't read music is an unimaginative moron. [quote]Also, to answer your personal criticism "Which I guess actually puts him at a disadvantage, because whereas I'd happily learn to read music if I needed to, based on a lot of the stuff he says he probably wouldn't touch many of the skills I have with a bargepole because he thinks they're pointless and beneath him." I assure you that you will be "better" at a lot of things in life than I am. But with 40 years experience, the odds are that I could be right about the odd thing?[/quote] I'm sure you're right about many things. However, again for future reference, the best way to prove that you're right is not to dismiss or belittle those that you believe are wrong.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='480932' date='May 6 2009, 01:05 PM']OK, I'm genuinely intrigued. What are your skills, exactly? I don't mean that to come across as confrontational or patronising (that's the problem with forums -- you don't have any indication of tone of voice). It's just that I'm always interested in people's different ways of expressing and creating musical ideas, and how they communicate those ideas to other people. And I try to absorb as many methods as I can, so I can try to find ways to communicate musically with many different people. (The only things I've never seen the point of are the sol-fa/solfège systems. Why use the syllables -- why not just sing numbers relating to the degrees of the scale? ) EDIT: Just figured it out. If you use sol-fa, you can have a choir of singers from all over the world, all using the same system without translation. So simple. D'oh![/quote] Wow. Er. Okay. My "skill" skills are mainly technical, as in computer stuff, studio stuff, sound stuff, all that jazz. For instance if you wanted me to produce, mix and master your album, I could, on the majority of industry standard formats. On the other hand, in terms of formal musical skills, I don't have anything that would get me into a conservatory or anything. I have a basic understanding of music theory. What I do have is fifteen years of experience of working in a really broad variety of musical situations, which has given me some of my key "abstract" skills, which are quick adaptability, the ability to effectively teach, the ability to conduct and lead bands, pretty good relative pitch, a basic level of performance on dozens of instruments and a reasonably high level on others, and a whole bunch of other crap that I'd sound even more arsey and arrogant if I tried to put names to them.

[quote name='Eight' post='480856' date='May 6 2009, 12:18 PM']Leave the superior aspect out - I've never said anything along those lines. Let me try this another way. There's two chaffeur jobs available. One requires the ability to speak Chinese. One doesn't. I don't speak Chinese, how many of those jobs can I apply for? One. Alice does speak Chinese, how many can she apply for? Both. Now, you can throw up all the pedantic excuses in the world here ("AH but what if Alice can't drive; just because she speaks Chinese doesn't mean she can drive" etc.) but the fact is, on this occassion, Alice has a required skill that I do not.[/quote] No, sure, but you're not getting me. here's what you said: "Except all things being equal - someone who can read has access to all of the opportunities reading brings, and [b]all of the opportunities reading isn't required for.[/b]" There are 100 opportunities on offer. Fifty of them require reading. Another fifty of them don't require reading, but do, on the other hand, require expertise in operating ProTools (for instance). So sure, I can't get the ones that require reading, but I can get the ones that require ProTools. Conversely, rslaing (making the assumption that he isn't trained in ProTools) only has access to the ones that require reading, but not the ones that require ProTools expertise. That's from my point of view, that operating ProTools to a high standard is as valuable a skill as reading music. You could argue that it isn't. But you see what I mean.

[quote name='Eight' post='480840' date='May 6 2009, 12:08 PM']Not what I said. Unless you're suggesting Rslaing *can't* have the skills you have *because* he can read; or that someone wouldn't have offered him the opportunity *because* he can read then its a different kettle of turnips. You got the jobs on your skills, but you don't have those skills *because* you never learned to read. You got those skills because you did, it just so happens you never learned to read.[/quote] Well sure. But what you said is "someone who can read has access to all of the opportunities reading brings, and all of the opportunities reading isn't required for" rslaing has access to all the opportunities reading brings, but crucially not ALL the opportunities reading isn't required for. Sure, he could learn stuff to gain access to those opportunities, just as I could learn to read music to gain access to the ones that he has. But his position is not currently superior to mine. I have access to stuff he doesn't, and he has access to stuff I don't. Which I guess actually puts [i]him[/i] at a disadvantage, because whereas I'd happily learn to read music if I needed to, based on a lot of the stuff he says he probably wouldn't touch many of the skills I have with a bargepole because he thinks they're pointless and beneath him. I'm not assuming that all readers are the same as him, btw.

[quote name='Eight' post='480776' date='May 6 2009, 11:21 AM']Except all things being equal - someone who can read has access to all of the opportunities reading brings, and all of the opportunities reading isn't required for.[/quote] That's not strictly true. It is true, of course, that I don't have access to many of the opportunities that rslaing, for instance, has access to, because I can't read and he can. On the other hand, I'd hazard a guess that of the numerous opportunities that I've had in my (admittedly short) career, the majority would not have been offered to rslaing, because he doesn't have some of the musical skills that I possess. It's horses for courses. But I wouldn't presume to tell anyone that they're in an inferior position to me because they don't have the same skill set.

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='480759' date='May 6 2009, 11:10 AM']I've got a body, that I intend doing things with, but maybe not for a year or so - possibly longer. Do I need to make any special effort for storing it, or is the back of a cupboard good enough? BTW it is a [i]bass [/i]body![/quote] Just make sure it stays at about room temperature in an environment that is unlikely to get particularly humid.

I just bought a Squier Std Jazz in walnut with a black PG from Lemmywinks, and what with me bring a bit of a fiddler, I'm gonna do some mods to it. - It comes with a satin finish, which I think looks a bit too modern, so I'm gonna polish it to a gloss - The neck is too light and pinkish, so I'm gonna shoot it with some tinted lacquer to make it more yellow-amber - I'm gonna replace the logo with a Fender '62 one. Not that I think it'll be fooling anyone, but I don't like the Squier logo anyway. - I may change the PG for a 3-ply tortoiseshell, which I think will match the walnut real nice. - I will eventually fit it with better pickups, nothing fancy, but decent passive Js. - I may also change the knobs for black jazz knobs, as the current ones are knurled chrome. - I thought about upgrading the bridge, but I think on balance I may just fit brass saddles. Photos to follow. I'll polish it later today I think. Hopefully it'll come up like a shiny conker.

I also like the look of the Rockbass Corvette double-buck. Will there be a 5 version of this, does anyone know?

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='480689' date='May 6 2009, 09:48 AM']Seriously - let it go. He doesn't care what other people think, and he's probably into music for different reasons than the likes of you and I.[/quote] I guess. I'm just intrigued by the psychology of this sort of behaviour. In a roundabout way I even find it relevant to the point of the thread.

[quote name='rjb' post='480691' date='May 6 2009, 09:51 AM'](Why anyone would buy the T.M. Stevens monstrosity is beyond me.)[/quote] Oooh, yeah, that is a bit... [i]Special[/i], isn't it. Maybe if you're in a reggae act?

Actually, here, for the sake of clarity. These are some of the things you've said which don't make any kind of useful point about learning to read music, but do, however, put down people who don't: [quote]There are not many top musicians who can't read music. And I am not talking about the type of musician who plays something that any 6 year old could manage after 2 months tuition. --- I do know however, as a bass tutor originally before my day job ate up my time and I became too old to be bothered any more, that most of my students that did not want to learn to read music did not do so for two main reasons. They either thought it had no relevance to what they wanted to play (mostly commercial or blues/metal stuff that did not necessitate any real musical skill anyway) or they were just too lazy to learn. --- I will make one further point about non reading players which I do hope will not cause you any further stress. I believe they are also limited in their creative abilities and tend to stick to one type of music. And very opinionated they are about that too, just as I am being now - but this is my personal experience. Just because they like a certain type of music or musician, they think it is "good". There is a huge difference between something being played well by a talented musician than an average joe playing some banal 3 chord tripe (and even then, on most of the produced albums, not only do they use auto vocal tuners for the untalented/untrained vocalists, but on many occasions, studios have to hire external musicians who can actually read music for the backing tracks). --- and it sounds like your music degree has all the authenticity of a first class honours in knitting. --- I stick to my original belief - people that can't read music are lazy, and somewhere early on in their musical aspirations decided that they could get where they wanted to be without bothering. It might work for manufactured sh*te in the music industry, but not for REAL musicians. --- If someone is happy toddling along learning bass patterns "off pat" and by copying other players, thats fine too. --- However, I also have my own musical opinions, and pop/commercial music has about the same value as nursery rhymes to me. I don't castigate people that like it though. It is their choice. (...) I would use the cliche that most of the stuff around now is just "bubble gum for the brain". And performed by a lot of talentless, mass produced drones. And not very well. Unfortunately, this sort of crap is all the kids want to aspire to, --- The majority of musicians that I have come across over the last 35 years have admitted (sometimes with a degree of assumed superiority complex) that they have not bothered to learn to read either because "there was no need" or they "could not be arsed" (which basically means they could get away with it). --- Why bother to learn to read at all when you always hum, whistle or sing your ideas to your band mates, and they can then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to interpret what you are going on about? Then you can build a library of stale numbers (well they will be by the time you have learned them via the humming, la-la-la, "let's listen to the cd again lads" method) that everyone in the band will be bored with and then you can start on the cycle again [/quote] There you go, a series of dismissive generalisations, put-downs, insults and general mockery that do absolutely sod-all to advance the case that reading music is an advantage, but on the other hand serve to hammer home just how superior you personally feel to every single person who doesn't read music. I'd like to know what makes you feel entitled to say this kind of thing, and then claim that it's just your opinion and people shouldn't be offended by it. And then hypocritically accuse me of getting personal and insulting when I ask you about it.

Definitely a DI out.

As shallow as I am, this would be the reason why I'd buy one. The thing I hate most about Rockbasses is the cheap-looking logo. The fact that they're also upgrading to a two-piece bridge is a bonus. I'd have never bought a 'wick for 'wick money, but I'd buy a Rockbass if it works more like a MIM Fender vs. a US Fender. I wouldn't buy a MIM Fender if it had "AwesomeAxe" on the headstock instead of Fender.

I have no reference as it wasn't the first stringed instrument I learned to play. As eight says though, don't worry. Whatever instrument you learn, in the first few months there is always a feeling of "I'm not getting anywhere", but you are learning stuff and building up gradually until all of a sudden you start to get it really quickly and then hey presto. If it's any consolation, getting from non-bass player to average bass player takes far less long than getting from average bass player to great bass player.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='480590' date='May 6 2009, 12:54 AM']As for the Ampeg pedal, I've only ever heard it with guitar through it, and I can't remember whether you can solo the synthesised note or whether it always blends in your original guitar note. Might be worth a punt anyway, they certainly do look cool I'll agree with you on that. [/quote] Basically it has a "direct" dial and an "octave" dial. With direct up and octave down, you just hear your own sound (but it's not bypassed). With direct down and octave up, you only hear the octave down from the pedal. You can blend accordingly. I hear they're great, but I wouldn't have a clue where to find one apart from on eBay.

[quote name='rslaing' post='480344' date='May 5 2009, 08:24 PM']Can I suggest that you try to stay on topic here? I really do not have to respond to personal stuff. But I will opinionate/debate with you forever about the topic if you want. If you want to start a topic off about the subject you seem to be mostly interested in, which is me and my opinions about why I think learning to read music is critical, then go ahead. I have already stated my case about musicians and their lack of all roundedness because they can't read music. And I think I have given a valid justification in a large % of my postings as to why I think that. I have read the replies from people who can't read music and so far, have not read anything to change my mind.[/quote] I'm only reacting to what you say. If what you say is off-topic, then I can't do anything about that. And I understand perfectly your opinions about the value of reading music, since you've stated them over and over again. But every time I've asked the following question (which is a different question), you've consistently sidestepped it: [b]What is is that makes you feel entitled to heap insults, criticism and derision on non-readers as you have done in this thread?[/b] If you'd like me to provide examples, I will. And feel free to say that you outright refuse to answer it, but don't pretend it's a different question or start banging on about staying on topic or not getting personal or whatever. It's a straightforward question, I want to know why you feel you should be permitted to heap abuse on people who don't feel the same way as you about reading music?

[quote name='rslaing' post='480331' date='May 5 2009, 08:12 PM']I have the right to express my beliefs and opinions, as do you. And at least I don't make them personal or offensive. Get over it please and just give constructive argument. And take the p**s if you like............as I said (paraphrase) earlier, no one can make you you feel inferior/insulted/whatever without your consent. If you have a problem with my opinons/theories... why don't you just ignore them?[/quote] Sorry, what part of this are you not getting? I don't have a problem with your opinions or your theories on how reading music is a benefit. I have a problem with you using that as a platform to slag off people who don't read music. If you don't think you've been doing that, I invite you to check back through your own posts in this thread.

[quote name='rslaing' post='480323' date='May 5 2009, 08:03 PM']Sorry to disappoint..........I spend a huge amount of time transcribing, for ongoing personal developmental purposes as well as occasionally to earn a crust - so I do have a very good ear. It is much EASIER to learn aurally, which IMO is why most people (as I mentioned earlier) take the course of least resistance and don't bother to learn to read or write music. However, it is a major benefit to any musician to be able to read music..period. And I have not seen an argument yet in this thread that could convince me otherwise. Don't take it personally please, or get abusive. It is just my opinion.[/quote] You still haven't clarified why you feel your opinion licences you to openly criticise large sections of the musical community. It's one thing to advance that you think yours is the superior method. It's quite another to take the piss out of those who don't follow it.

[quote name='rslaing' post='480298' date='May 5 2009, 07:39 PM']Why bother to learn to read at all when you always hum, whistle or sing your ideas to your band mates, and they can then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to interpret what you are going on about? Then you can build a library of stale numbers (well they will be by the time you have learned them via the humming, la-la-la, "let's listen to the cd again lads" method) that everyone in the band will be bored with and then you can start on the cycle again Hopefully I won't start off another war here,[/quote] I don't get it. If you don't want to start stuff, then why make comments like that? You KNOW there are people on here who primarily transmit their musical ideas aurally (and have no problem doing it), so why belittle it or make fun of it? Or maybe [i]you[/i] find it really hard to work that way, so you genuinely think it's that hard for other people?

My thoughts are that if the Rockbass is the only one you've tried, I'd try a bunch of others before committing. Especially if the neck was a bit big for your comfort.