pantherairsoft

Another easy deal with Jake. Top man. Thanks dude

Happy to help bud. Again - things may be very different in your setup to mine, but those guidelines work for me. The most important thing is to enjoy it. I love building stuff up like this. The challenge of creating the perfect board has been enjoyable. Patching boards up and making things more efficient has become a bit of a hobby really [quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1320858908' post='1432422'] that is the Rolls-Royce of the bass pedalboard world. good job. [/quote] Si - When you coming over for a play next. Soooooooooo many new toys since you came over to the studio last!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1320861107' post='1432479'] Nice! Are you quite sure you've got enough effects? [/quote] For now…

[quote name='RichF' timestamp='1320864834' post='1432547'] Hiya Shep, Good job! Can you say a bit more about the quote - tips, lessons learned, etc. My signal path's not a patch on yours but could you say a bit more about how to keep things clean?? Cheers, Rich [/quote] Hey dude, Yeah… Obviously everything depends on a million ifs and buts, plus is totally dependant on what gear you are using, but in my experience these would be my main points: 1. Spend some dosh and a top quality powering system. Something that regulates and filters etc etc. The fewer number of transformers in a line along a multi-plug extension block the better. At first glance they may not seem to add too much noise, but under the microscope they can often do funny things to the sound (especially in the recording environment!). My entire pedalboard is powered by 2 plugs. 1 for the MP-201 (as it requires AC not DC power) and 1 GigRig Generator running everything else, despite lots of different polarities and voltages. A system like that is expensive to tailor to a set up like mine but what it has done for signal noise etc is amazing to say the least! 2. Have a buffered pedal (Boss pedals are perfect for this - and are what I use!) as the first and last pedal in the chain. I'm sure others will explain this in a more technical way, but having a buffer first removes lots of popping etc in the signal chain and having one last takes a lot of noise out that is other wise amplified. This may not be an issue on smaller signal chains with different impedance, but on mine, sticking a true bypass pedal the start makes all the true bypass pedals pop, and having one at the end adds unwanted hiss to the signal. 3. Keep Audio cables as short and tidy as possible. Again, expense is involved, but moving to George L's to every lead is cut to length as opposed to using piles of pre-made 30, 40, 50cm cables has likely saved me about 6ft (if not more) of cable run around the board. More cable = more 'chance' of signal degradation and more cable surface to find interference etc etc. i run the cables in looms and cable tie them together to they run around as 'one' 4. Keep power cables separate. That is, 9v DC cables etc to your pedals will always lay along side each other and along the audio chain, but where possible don't tie them into the same 'loom' as the audio patch cables. Also, try and keep any mains cables (eg. from the multi adapter to the wall) running from the board in the opposite direction to the lead running to the amp (or at least not along side each other). Most cables are insulated so you'll never have any issues, but every room, plug socket and cable is different so I do this as habit now. 5. Any noisy pedals (those which always hiss etc but are too good to leave from the board) should be kept in true bypass loop (preferably one made with pull-down resistors) so they can be switched out of the chain completely when not in use, rather than just turned off. Although they unwanted noise may seem to be gone when the pedals are off, noisy pedals still usually add or subtract something from the chain. Also worth noting that 'most' (not all) noisy pedals can often be cleaned up with more efficient powering. 6. Learn your pedals traits inside & out and try every possible signal chain order you can. Some pedals interact with others in ways you wouldn't expect. The Moogerfoogers for example have always active gain controls, so each drives the next pedal in line. I have 5 in a row so by the time you get to the 5th one its being overdriven, as is every pedal after. SOme have higher gain than others but by spending 6 months trying different orders I understand the characteristics of each and have a gain balance that means nothing ever peaks - unless I want it to. In relation to this, if you know your setup and how things interact it also means that when something doesn't sound right you can usually pin point what it is very quickly. 7. Finally, forget the 'you need true bypass to preserve your tone' rubbish. Following the above points has allowed me to preserve 95% of my original tone, even though very little in my set up is true bypass. In fact, most noise issues tend to come from true bypass (I think EBS_Freak would agree here!) in my expereince. Buffered pedals, arranged and powered correctly can be very effective at delivering a pure signal. Shep

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1320862617' post='1432500'] That has to be one of (if not THE) tidiest board I've ever seen. Now we need to hear what it can do! [/quote] Yeah - I got a bit obsessive with the cable runs and the power distributors. I still think it can be a little neater under the bridge where you can't see (midi and CV into the MP-201) but I need to resist tidying stuff that doesn't need to be tidied!

I would suggest contacting either Max @ SFX (Silent Fly) or Umph, they may be able to help providing some schematic can be found. Umph modified a EHX micro synth for me and an expression pedal to control the cutoff - I expect the same principles are involved.

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1320861055' post='1432476'] i see! kinda like you'd notice but an audience would not!? andy [/quote] Exactly. That's the perfect way to put it. As an audiophile you'd notice a little and if you could A/B the signal youd notice a tiny volume drop, but my 1400W crown power amp has plenty of juice to spare...

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1320859640' post='1432442'] nice! is there any signal loss after going thru all the pedals? andy [/quote] There is a slight volume drop compared to going into the amp directly and I'd say a very slight loss of bottom end 'clarity'. The changes are very slight though, and for me, no worry as I don't use a clean bass tone EVER, plus the EQ I use on the amp is extreme (big boost of 50hz). I've spent a lot of time and money getting the signal path as clean as possible.

Sorted rig... Barefaced Big Twin T EBS 1v2 Preamp Crown XTi 1000 Power amp Roscoe Century 3006 Fretless Bass Monster synth-bass pedalboard of doom [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/1242493f.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/78497c81.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/afb70b10.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/c87580c2.jpg[/IMG] Apologies for the iPhone camera quality. I'll take my decent SLR to the studio tomorrow and get some better pics!

Final results - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/289-post-your-pedal-board-basschat-style/page__view__findpost__p__1432369

Finally I can update on here. Custom board done! Here it is in all it's beauty, fully up an running (just need 1 more adapter from GigRig to get the Cluster Flux on the same supply). I'm now running wireless as well so there are only 3 cables leaving the board at any point. Lead to the amp, power for the board & a midi cable for the tempo on my tremolo. I've also gone wireless IEM for my metronome feed meaning no cables running to me and that's made it SOOOOOOOOO much easier to move around and tweak stuff... [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/6162950e.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/1b259567.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/898418ee.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/f15e47c1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/5e9b585f.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/1a77dc50.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/5971e274.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/64fca545.jpg[/IMG] There's been an awful lot of guidance from the Basschat community, Dan@GigRig, Mal@GR Cases, Alex@Barefaced, Amos & Steve D@Moog Music and Gard@Roscoe Guitars when it comes to getting all this to come together, making it noise free, and most of all retaining my monster tone throughout the signal chain. Cheers folks! The full set up for live & studio... [IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Amp%20Cab%20Pedals/c87580c2.jpg[/IMG]

Hi John, Point taken. There's moved to Amps & Cabs and a link to it left in the Effects forum. After a few searches there has been some discussion in the past about the SWR pedal being non-standard (or rather complaints) meaning folk have had to invest in the SWR pedal as other expression and volume pedals have not worked. I'm certain most expression pedals could be modded to work the same (if the SWR pedal can't be obtained) and can suggest a couple of basschatters that may be able to modify it too!

Because that's what was available at the time and the general census seemed to be 'it would make no difference'.

Solved. As above. Using a mono cable was all that was needed!

John, I've removed the post in amps & cabs. No need for it to be everywhere. If someone has the answer then they can post it here. It's is an Overdrive here after all. I'm not familiar with the unit. Does is have a. Exp' input? That will tell you if it's expression co Patible after all! Shep

One of the most useful pedals around. I've heard talk of them being noisy and sucking tone, but I'm happy to report that mine doesn't. Takes a while to get to grips with all the possibilities it can handle. Awesome bit of kit. Everyone should have one to hand.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1320762399' post='1430990'] haha. Fingers crossed. Shame you can't just borrow another power amp. Could Nottingham PA lend you one quickly - they are just downstairs from you. [/quote] Chris - That ain't a bad thought dude! Never thought to pop in and see John. Little more discussion with Dan @ GigRig and he seems pretty confident that the Stereo cable is the issue. I'll find out in the morning, But as I understand, the Preamp has a left and right out and should take a MONO output from either. In the words of Dan - "trs is where the problem is, if the earth from the output is where the ring is, then you’ll have no ground to the power amp, open circuit, buzz…….." If it's that easy, I'll be a happy man.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1320762212' post='1430983'] I could be wrong, but I don't think that disconnection of the ground on an XLR is dangerous - otherwise why would all DI boxes / DI outputs etc allow this. Don't confuse this with disconnecting the ground on a mains lead - this IS dangerous, since if there is a fault and there is no earth on a piece of equipment (which would be the case if the lead had no earth), the metal case would become live. So, try it - as long as it is a signal lead and not mains, you will be fine. [/quote] Oh yeah! That makes sense. Can you tell I studied English Literature & Theatre as opposed to anything technical

[quote name='Sjonnie' timestamp='1320761316' post='1430959'] [url="http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/ampfaqnew.htm"]Some background info[/url] (look for: How can I get rid of the noise in my system?) TRS versus TS cables will probably not make a difference (with the emphasis on probably), disconnecting ground from the XLR cable should. [/quote] But disconnecting the ground is potentially dangerous...

Dan & GigRig has suggested it sounds as though something is open circuit and acting as a radio. His 1st suggestion would also be (as other above have suggested) changing the cable from Pre - Power amp, and pointed out the fact that using TRS for this is not necessary. Another check added to my list for the mornings hunt!

[quote name='Soliloquy' timestamp='1320708889' post='1430497'] It sounds like the pedal power supply. I'm not a million moles from you, about 30 or so, you're welcome to come over and try using my power amp. [/quote] It does sound like the pedal power supply - but I've put that supply and board through so many poor venues (that make other musicians gear go crazy) with no noise at all. It has performed flawlessly. Annoying that interaction with 1 bit of kit causes this! I'm currently without transport (bit of a pain), but if I sort that before I sort the issue here I'll be happy to take you up on your offer.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1320707182' post='1430471'] Some pointers - Make sure your pre/power amp are running off the same plug as the board so they have a common earth. Take your pre/power amp out of the rack and make sure they aren't touching. Humfrees can help with getting proper isolation within the rack. Make sure you have a buffered pedal last in your chain - something like a Boss pedal. This is similar to an audio transformer and you may have one lying around. In my experience true bypass causes more problems than it's worth. A good buffered pedal > true bypass. Unplug your board and add one pedal at a time to your signal path... see if there is a problematic pedal and see if moving the position in the chain makes things better. Ensure that all your interconnects are good and properly screened. [/quote] Cool. They are currently running from the same socket. I'll try taking them out of the rack to see if that helps - its on my check list! I do have a buffered pedal last (Boss DD-20) I tried a number of pedals earlier and it did not seem to matter what pedals were powered, more that the pedal power supply was on. I'll try this in more detail on Wednesday All interconnects are George L's. Connections seem fine when not used with this amp, and I have had a little wiggle of each one, but given the size of my board, swapping 1 cable out at a time is a days work, so I have not had the chance to do this in depth.

The cable I'm using is a TRS - XLR. I'll try a TS-XLR, however I'd of thought, as mentioned already that surely I'd get the hum without the pedalboard if it was down to amp cabling? I'll add that to my list of stuff to try on Wednesday though

Ha. Don't worry - no wires will be disconnected! I'll investigate the input transformer. For £19 I imagine it being a useful tool in the spares box even of it doesn't solve this particular issue. Trying to isolate racks from each other is easy to do without spending anything to start with - ill just physically separate them outside of the rack to try and eliminate the issue. As for sorting our rehearsal room out - its a prehistoric building with even older wiring. In the past I've had lots of problems with effects pedals. Once I moved over to the GigRig Generator system and stopped having load of power supplies etc it all cleaned up and I've had no issues since. It's a shoddy building though.

Unfortunately not. There is a ground lift in the DI out of the EBS Pre - but not on the general amp side of things.