leftybassman392

Ahh. Well in that case I bow to your superior lust.

Just a couple of things on the Sarod thing: 1. Although improvisation is a major feature of the style, the music is actually quite formalised in structure. The way it goes through the sections is pretty obvious even from that short extract. Not really free improv in the strict sense; more akin to the interminable guitar solos you often used to get in prog rock (but less boring, obviously ); 2. Scales in Indian music are incredibly complex. I'm a bit out of touch with this stuff from not having studied it for probably 30 years so I'll need to mug up a bit; in the meantime, this Wikipedia article should give you a bit of an insight. It's a bit loose in places, but does go through the structural elements pretty well I think.

Just curious... why a 355 and not a 335? Without the varitone gubbins (which the instrument in your picture doesn't have afaics), it's basically the same guitar but for a few cosmetic details. I have an '84 ES-335TD in Cherry Red which is a fabulous instrument that I'll have until death doth us part. In all honesty I'm struggling to understand why this wouldn't be enough for you.

The Sarod piece looks to be somewhat edited. A raga - even a short one - would normally be longer than 4 minutes. A long one could easily be an hour or more.

Enough already!

...or as an alternative, you could try listening to some classical Indian music...

Sounds like a Pink Floyd lyric to me...

I also mentioned attitude adjustment. Just sayin'...

Ok, the reading would be a bit of a last resort. That said, it can be useful for filling in some of the blanks. On the judgement thing, as I said already you're welcome to form whatever judgement you like. Would I play it at a barbeque? Not in a million years. I also said up near the top of the thread that it's an acquired taste that requires an attitude adjustment. I don't think many of it's practitioners would claim that they're trying to appeal to a wide audience. It did have something of a golden period during the '60s and '70s (which is when I was going to gigs by the likes of Coxhill, Parker and Henry Cow feat. Fred Frith and listening to stuff by Stockhausen, Cage and Reich), but I don't think anybody would ever claim it as mainstream. I would hope most would agree that music is an art form whose main aim is to elicit an emotional response. If I'm honest I haven't listened to any free improv for many years (aside from the odd episode), but this thread has made me realise how much a part of my musical upbringing it was. You just have to learn to set aside some of your preconceptions about what music is, and what makes something a musical performance. I guess I had the advantage of being exposed to it at an early age, before I'd had time to set my views in stone. One other point that might be worth making is that it's actually quite a broad church: one the one hand Parker, Bailey et. al. are a bit out there, whereas people like Stockhausen, Riley and Reich are coming at it more from a classical standpoint but requiring performers to add something of themselves to the performance in a way that wouldn't normally be the case. Some is completely unscripted (which purists would argue is the essence of the form), whereas other pieces are written down but with the explicit proviso that the performers will improvise to a greater or lesser degree. For example, I was once asked to take part in a performance of a piece by David Bedford. The 'notation' looked like nothing I'd ever seen before, and was about as close to standard notation as chalk is to cheese. The idea was that although the sequence of events and the general - changing - mood of the piece were scripted, the actual sounds made during the performance were left completely at the discretion of the performers.

Fair enough, but there are responses available on numerous levels. I could respond in kind by saying something like 'if you don't get it then perhaps you might like to try a bit harder'; or perhaps something a bit more formal whilst retaining the emotive edge - how about 'free improv has been around a long time and has links with numerous other musical genres, not to mention it's own big names (I referenced Stockhausen earlier but there's plenty of others such as Evan Parker, Terry Riley, David Bailey and David Bedford), and doesn't need to justify itself to you or anyone else. If you don't get it, don't listen to it.'? In a calmer and more collaborative vein, I might suggest you dig around a bit. A bunch of names and pieces have been suggested to you. I could even provide some background reading for what it might be worth. Try to get some sort of handle on what motivates people (other than insanity) to play this music. There is, however, a bottom line here that is there no matter how we go about this: free improv is a well-established element of the musical firmament. You can either get involved in some way or not. Up to you really. Feel free to judge accordingly; I'll do my best to live with the consequences.

Here's a little something to get you talking: Stockhausen This is one of his shorter pieces. ... and if you liked that you're gonna just love this. There's plenty more where these came from.

Not at all Pete. This is a forum for expressing opinions though, and thankfully an OP on this forum can't prevent people from doing so. Rubbishing dissenting views as a way of stifling debate (which is what this particular OP appears to be trying to do - or if not then what?) just ain't gonna work. He doesn't rate this type of musical endeavour; he made that very clear upfront. Does he really just want to hear contributions from posters who rock up and agree with him and browbeat everybody else into giving up and walking away? He's entitled to his view of course, and entitled to keep expressing it as often as he likes; but then so is everybody else.

Indeed. So this thread is just for people who want to spout off or take the fosters out of music they don't like, is that right? No discussion or debate required. Just an 'I think this stuff is crap' thread. Duly noted.

Well yes, that's a given TBH. Not really the point I'm making though. This 'everything I don't like in this thread is crap' gig is getting a bit old (IMHO of course). Might be a bit more constructive to spell out what it is about it that makes it crap. Not being able to find the one doesn't make musical expression crap. (Unless of course you think it does, but then at least we'll have something to argue about discuss.)

@EBS_freak Are you planning to rubbish everything you don't like on this thread? Just asking...

I met and chatted with Lol Coxhill many, many years ago (mid-'70s). Newcastle upon Tyne. Lovely bloke as I recall - surprisingly down-to-earth given the music he was playing. He did have a bizarre walk-on routine at the time though, which consisted of bounding joyfully onstage and deliberately falling flat on his face. Well that's how I remember it anyway.

Well I get that it's an acquired taste but, honestly, what's the problem? Try Fred Frith, Evan Parker, Lol Coxhill... In fairness, the visuals are a bit unappealing, but hey!

...which would make 1% of the world's music bass music. Dunno about you but I reckon that could be a tad optimistic.

Don't get me wrong, I love the bass (otherwise I wouldn't be here), but I've always thought that it's important to one's development as a musician to listen to music played on instruments one wouldn't normally think about. This thread is for people to post music that highlights other instruments. Can be any genre and feature any instrument, but it should be something that doesn't feature bass guitar as a prominent element in the sound. Here's my opening offer:

Maybe it's me, but that fretboard looks very wide for a 6-string electric - almost like a classical guitar. Do you have measurements for width at the nut & the bridge?

Technically that's more of a side-effect. The original design brief was to allow company employees at geographically diverse locations to communicate with each other and with the company's central site efficiently and securely. VPNs are still very widely used in that role AFAIK.

Can't get with the relic'd thing. An old bass that's led an interesting life has a story to tell, but buying a brand new bass that somebody has been paid to go at with acid, sandpaper and a chisel (a cost that gets passed on to you, the buyer) in an attempt to fake a life it's never actually led... Nope, don't get that one at all. Still, pays yer money and all that. Having said that, when I sold my (well-used) '84 Wal a couple of years ago, I actually got a derisory offer from some American yuppie who spent time chirping about how much it was going to cost him to get it 'restored to it's proper condition' and about how badly I'd let the side down by letting it get into 'this state'. I suggested he keep looking for a vintage lefty Wal that might better suit his needs and sold it to somebody else.

I know everybody here is offering their advice freely, sincerely and with good intentions but, with all due respect, every student is different. What works for one may not work for another. As an ex tutor I guess I would say this wouldn't I, but nobody can really know what is the best approach for any given individual sight unseen. Some of the above may well work, but then again it may not. I have nothing to gain or lose by saying this, but if he's to i) benefit, ii) enjoy the experience then he (and his father) really ought to get some professional guidance from somebody at some point. Unless of course dad's expecting him to get bored fairly quickly... Just my two penn'orth.

I live in the Solihull area and ran a tuition business for around 15 years. I don't do it professionally any more but if you like I can take a quick look at where he's at for you. I don't want money and I don't want to restart my teaching career - it would just be a one-off session. If you're interested feel free to drop me a PM.

I'm just looking forward to seeing 'fat c*nt' come out as 'round robin'...