leftybassman392

Is it ok if I explain it a bit more? Hand on heart I'm not trying to be patronising, but I'm still not sure you've quite got it Henry. Equal Temperament and Just intonation are different ways of calculating scale intervals. Equal Temperament works by making all the intervals in the Octave exactly the same distance apart - hence the name. It uses a very specific and fairly complex formula to achieve this (it's shown in the appendix article). Just Intonation can actually be done a number of different ways, but however it's done it uses simple ratios (or fractions if you prefer) stacked on top of each other to create the intervals. Equal Temperament has the advantage that it allows you to do all sorts of clever things very easily (changing key, for example); and it allows composers to explore much more complex melodic and harmonic ideas. Also, instruments like guitars and pianos are much easier to make because the scale relationships are the same everywhere you look. The downside is that the intervals you get are a little bit 'off' harmonically. It's a compromise that most musicians seem content to live with. Just Intonation, however it's done, yields more precise pitching of notes than ET. The downside is that, however you do it you wind up at a point where the harmonic relationship breaks down, and you wind up with a phenomenon called a Wolf Fifth. The maths can get quite complex again, but it's a kind of built-in (I would call it endemic) flaw of the system that you simply can't get around. This limits it's potential as an expressive framework. True Temperament: guitars and basses - indeed all fretted instruments - have inherent issues with tuning, whatever scale system you use - it's in the nature of the instrument and has nothing to do with the type of scale system itself. As far as I can see True Temperament works by placing the frets very precisely so as to overcome these issues. Because of the limitations of Just Intonation, it simply wouldn't work at a practical level on a standard guitar (or a keyboard instrument for that matter). I'm sure it can be done up to a point, but one of the great benefits of a fretted instrument is that things like key changes are a simple matter of playing the same patterns in a different position. You can't do that with Just Intonation. Try this link for more information: [url="http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php?go=4#A1"]http://www.truetempe...dex.php?go=4#A1[/url] Hope this helps. If it makes you feel any better, most musicians (even experienced professional players) struggle with some of this stuff.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1322848991' post='1456714'] [url="http://www.truetemperament.com"]True Temperament[/url] do replacement necks for Fender-style basses. Atlansia have made a [url="http://www.atlansia.jp/VICTORIA.html"]Victoria Bass[/url] with quarter-tone frets. [/quote] True Temperament: Interesting idea, but it's still using Equal Temperament. This technology is being used to compensate for the inherent tuning issues that all guitarists have as they move up the fretboard. Bottom line - it's a trade name and a specific alignment technology for use on fretted instruments, whereas Equal Temperament and Just Intonation are ways of tuning an instrument (any instrument). Quarter Tone bass. Again, an interesting idea (although I'm not sure how you'd use the extra notes it provides to play anything that would fit a western chromatic tuning system - I mean you could no doubt contrive something, or even write your own music around the instrument - but then who else would be able to play it?). If you plan to use it to play in a band, what's the point of all the extra frets? Come to think of it, you can achieve the same if not more with a perfectly standard fretless bass.

[quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1322828659' post='1456328'] I took a look at your Greek article. It's quite allot to take in but I'm kind of getting the gist. I've been trying to get my head around alternative equal temperament scales (& the equations needed to calculate the intervals) yet this 'just intonation' is a whole new level of terrifying theory to learn. Can you give me some links to your other articles? [/quote] Well the one that covers the maths is the one headed 'appendix to installment 4' (I hope!). Scroll down until you find it if you haven't already. Just Intonation is all to do with fraction arithmetic. If you can follow the 'appendix' post ok then you might want to have a look at this: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation[/url] In a way it's ironic that we have trouble with it, since it's been around well over 2000 years longer than the current system (Equal Temperament), and is actually more accurate in terms of the harmonic relationships.

[quote name='borisbrain' timestamp='1322844882' post='1456632'] Here's a spanner in the works - I'm completely the other way. I'm dominantly right-handed, but play leftie guitar and bass. Work that out if you can... I guess it's because I'm using my most capable and dexterous hand (the right) to do the manipulative work on the fretboard - making runs or shaping chords, whereas my left only has to pluck strings or hold occasionally hold a plectrum. This makes me a lefty guitarist, and I simply can't do it the other way round. Shame, cos we lefties have a wretched selection of basses to choose from... Stay groovy, BB [/quote] There's at least one other member on the board who's the same (not me I hasten to add), but it is very unusual. It probably means you're two-handed to some degree. Most would agree about the selection available.

Without wishing to seem immodest, I've done a series of articles on the 'Theory and Technique' forum that cover Just Intonation (amongst other things) from a theoretical viewpoint, in case anybody needs a bit of background. Articles 2, 4 and the appendix to 4 are the ones than cover Just Intonation.

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1322750235' post='1455345'] Some info here: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handedness"]http://en.wikipedia....Left-handedness[/url] With apologies for going off topic! Will stop immediately. [/quote] No worries here. I can happily talk about this stuff all day, and am pretty familiar with that particular Wiki article. The danger is that we'll kick off another thread on lefthandedness - last time that happened there were tears as I recall. Long story short - left handed people have been given a hard time since Roman times - if not before. The term 'cack handed' means exactly what you think it means, and comes from Islam (the unclean hand). The word 'sinister' is, as you say, Roman. I'll stop there but the point is made I think.

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1322748152' post='1455301'] Yeah, and what about the meaning and connotations of the word "dextrous" vs "sinister"? Sigh. [/quote] Don't get me started! The entire language is thick with it. *pause for deep, calming breath*

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1322747814' post='1455290'] Yup, since left handed people tend to be more ambidextrous it's the right handed people that need to up their game. [/quote] There's a nice little irony here - the correct translation of ambidextrous (from its latin origin) is 'on the right both sides', more commonly rendered as 'right handed both sides'. No wonder I feel discriminated against!

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1322740818' post='1455093'] my guitarist plays left handed and I strongly disagree about your statement above ;-) [/quote] I have some guitars I want to sell that will improve his technique no end!

[quote name='TobyB' timestamp='1322656740' post='1453976'] Interested in the opinions about a 5th's set-up .. chime with my playing to a great extent ... I mostly play rhythm/chords on a 6-string, and mostly play single-note tunes on the mando's (some chords, but not so much) ... I love how many notes you get under your fingers without shifting too much. Clearly going to be moving a lot more on the bass (just as I move more on the octave mandola than on the mandolin) ... but the lack of familiar guitar chords isn't an issue to me as I've never used that much on my 4-string ... but the double-stops familiar to any 5th's scale instrument player could work well on a bass (a finger and thumb pinch across 2 strings or a pluck with index and middle?), especially as many are open-stringed or very closely fretted so the reach of your left fingers isn't going to be too much ... The suggestion for contacting Newtone was excellent ... they got back to me last night and again this morning ... they've suggested ... "the CGDAE should be possible if you are going up from standard tuning i.e. .115 B string tuned up to C miss out an E string .080 A string tuned up to G .060 D string .040 G string up to A and something like an .018 for the E" No wonder I was struggling with the E ... not seen a bass string that light! They are sending me a couple of sets, with options of an .018 and a .020 for the E as he admitted it's a bit of guesswork ... GREAT service advice ... bought some more mandolin strings from him too! When I've got the thing set up I'll report back ... Cheers Toby [/quote] Looks like they've erred on the side of lightness (I'd say that set is based on a 40 60 80 100 125 standard set, which is a bit lighter than most people would use). The choice for the high E is very interesting (it would actually be the third string on an acoustic guitar - not really a precise comparison I know, but even so...). They've probably never been asked for one before! I'm looking forward to hearing how this lot works out.

[quote name='Maverick' timestamp='1322656795' post='1453978'] I know some people think that drop tunings are cheating... [/quote] Not at all..... it's just for people who don't know any better.

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1322605513' post='1453567'] If I took up guitar, I'd tune it in 4ths, precisely because I could relate fingering patterns to the bass ones. I'd tune it FCGDAE. Based on that line of thought, I can see where the OP's coming from. [/quote] It was great - the scale patterns just open up underneath your fingers, which makes soloing so much easier once you get used to it. The downside is that you have to forget most of what you knew about chords (which is a big deal for a lot of guitarists).

For any given string position, the basic rule of thumb is that thicker strings need to be wound tighter to make the same note. Within reason you can put any gauge on at any position (just don't try to use a 135 for the high A!) The values I gave you are based on the standard gauges for standard tuning (they do vary slightly, but 45, 65, 85, 105, (130) is very common). I then adjusted slightly for the different notes you want to tune to, bearing in mind the commonly available single string sizes. The idea is that the tension from string to string is about the same as you move across them, which makes them feel more balanced under your RH fingers when you play. Some do tinker with string gauges a bit, but you really need to know what you're doing before starting down that path. My thinking was to give you a reference point that you could expand from as you get more into it.

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1322585082' post='1453141'] Might need some nut alteration for thicker strings. [/quote] +1, especially on the bass side - a 130 gauge most likely won't go into the slot for a 105

For some time I had one of my guitars tuned in fourths all the way across (I got it from reading an interview with Big Jim Sullivan, but I think quite a lot of people have done it at one time or another). All such alterations make you think more about what you're doing, and that's never a bad thing for any musician.

You're right, it's all in the guages. To do what you require you'd need to buy individual strings (assuming you can even get them in the sizes you'll need) since nobody - but nobody - will sell full sets to do what you need. For a CGDA tuning (I'm assuming C below the normal low E) a good start might be: C - around 130 (often used for low B on a 5) G - around 95 (E would be 105, A would be 85) D - around 65 (actually correct for a 'normal' set) A - around 40 (slightly thinner than a standard G @ 45) These numbers ought to give roughly even tension across the instrument, and should be easily available as singles. Not definitive by any means, but at least it'll provide a discussion point.

I've never had any problems at the Gallery. Alex can be a little brusque I'll admit, but never in a bad way that I've noticed. Martin and John are both extremely approachable and easy to get on with, the more so considering the magnificent and rightly famous instruments they make.

Yep. Bass Gallery for me too (even though I live in Birmingham). Tube to Camden Town and a 5 minute walk up the Camden Road and down Royal College Street. Google it if you're not sure. You'll need to buzz the door when you get there.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1322516730' post='1452088'] IMO sale threads should consist of a single post containing the relevant information and photos and that's it. [/quote] Never happen, for the very simple reason that in a free market people are free to keep reminding everybody about their stuff (keeping your product in the public's thoughts is one of the cornerstones of meerkating), and it's up to everybody else to decide whether they're being too pushy and complain or report.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1322478873' post='1451173'] The freedom of the market is sacrosanct. Profiteering? Who are you to determine what is excessive? Comrade, this isn't some socialist enclave immune from the ebb and flow of the free market. I don't sell much stuff, but if I think I can turn a profit then I will. It's no-one's business but mine. Let's say I pick up something locally for silly money and sell it on here for a reasonable price. Am I wrong? No! I am enterprising. The item was sold for a fair market price, and the price I obtained it for is none of your business. I have no obligation to share my good fortune, I don't owe any of you a damn thing. This overinflated sense of entitlement really sticks in my craw. Goodwill? This is the same place which is the number one (in my experience) source of lowball offers whenever I sell things, so it cuts both ways. I am a capitalist pigdog, and I'm happy to be one. Not happy with a price? Negotiate in private or walk away. Don't stand on a soapbox with a megaphone outside someone's shop complaining about the prices. [/quote] Noted. Thanks for your opinion.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1322474912' post='1451105'] You would like to think that dealers would be up front and honest about their transactions. If that was the case then it shouldn't be a problem as they are looking for stuff they can move on at a profit and are taking the risk that it may not sell on easily. But in this case it doesn't look like that happened. [/quote] I agree about taking a risk, but IMHO that most definitely isn't what happened here. I met up with Deezbar just before the weekend, and this came up in conversation. He may want to talk about it himself, but for me there were a couple of aggravating factors with this one. It just rankles when people do this kind of thing.

[quote name='Alfie' timestamp='1322471046' post='1451056'] I think it's fair to comment on prices when someone is trying to profiteer on Basschat goodwill. There was a case a few months ago where a bass was sold at a bargain price and the buyer later put it up for sale with a hefty mark-up, thus pricing out people who genuinely wanted the instrument and denying the original seller a fair price at the same time. I really hated this. [/quote] There's one going on right now: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/36318-big-lefty-market-thread/page__st__1020"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/36318-big-lefty-market-thread/page__st__1020[/url]

I've only ever done this once to my recollection. It was an eBay sale for a lefty Sei Flamboyant up for only a couple of hundred pounds less than a brand new one made to buyer's spec. I was actually trying to help the seller (not in the market for it myself as I already had the headless Original 5 by then). I got a flea in my ear for my trouble and swore never to do it again. I did keep an eye on it for a while however as he kept relisting it. After it had failed to sell for the third or fourth time I stopped looking. No need. These days I just don't bother - if the seller is too stupid or too greedy to do a bit of research then that's his problem.

I liked it a lot. Definite Chillis vibe in there, especially in the drum patterns (and none the worse for that IMHO). Do you have any more stuff available?