bumnote

You will find that the laquer will make the finish a lot more shiny. I had to flat the colour coat with 1200 and then apply the lacquer.

allow to dry for several weeks and you can use 1500 wet and dry and then rubbing compound, and then a final polish.

Im using car sprays, and those are the instructions pretty much on the tin.

did they come through royal mail or parcelforce?

[quote name='silddx' post='632947' date='Oct 21 2009, 10:36 PM']That's lovely! Is it vintage? certainly looks it.

Mine is called Eva, what's yours called?[/quote]

No its a CIJ in vintage white with us pickups a thumb rest and bridge cover. I imported it directly from Japan when the interest rates were better. I decided that I prefer precisions to all other basses, and im going to have 1 on the top of my coffin when the time comes

Its affectionately known as the white one to identify it from the red one or the brown one.

another Nigel

[quote name='silddx' post='632677' date='Oct 21 2009, 07:05 PM']Happy ending from my point of view. I did what [b]bumnote [/b]suggested (thanks mate ) and it worked. Also, my Switchcraft jack had arrived today so I fitted that too, works beautifully of course.

Thanks everyone for your very valuable contributions. I will NEVER interfere with a faulty item again. Chris from Absolute Guitars could have handled this better, but from a legal point of view he is most likely right.

I now LOVE my first ever Fender Precision, the dark tort helps it look so classy [/quote]

Snap, great colour combination

I havent played a Sterling by music man ray but I do have a us ray and a us stirling, and comparing to the G&l 2000 trib I think the g&L is more versatile.

2 pickups, individually switchable, or both, monster eq, treble boost, passive/series /parrallel switching.

You may want to factor in the different neck profile, the g@l is a bit fatter than the ray.

I have two CIJ precisions one fitted with a fender tort us scratchplates, and another fitted with a us aluminium plate, and a Tokai also fitted with an aly plate. While the plates are not interchangable, they were not that difficult to do.

In both cases you will have to drill additional holes, but these will always be hidden under the new plate.

IIRC I removed the 4 screws holding the pick ups so they were free to move.
Remove the pots and socket, and lay the new plate on the body, hopefully you can line the plate up with the neck, I think i had to file a bit off to make sure it fitted the neck. I was able to move the plate around sufficiently that it didnt have the gap shown on your picture.

Dummy fit the pots and jack plug socket and double check that it all lines up.

Once you have the plate in the right place, you can mark and drill new holes to fix the scratchplate.

fill the old screw holes for the pickups with cocktail sticks or matches and pva. Re drill and refix the pickups.

Doesnt help with your argument with the seller but I doubt you will easily find an off the shelf replacement even if they did refund you so are stuck with modding the bass or having a copy made from your existing plate.

Good luck

What a great response

Im impressed. Ive generally had good service in there although somehow it doesnt quite ring my bell, although
i dont know why.

Report a Problem, they checked it, hands up, we were wrong, we will fix it, heres how, and we will make it up to you, pretty good.

That used to be mine and its a great bass
G&Ls are very underated and the quality is excellent

[quote name='jakesbass' post='627366' date='Oct 15 2009, 09:24 PM']Personally I'd want between 4 and 6 hundred quid. but if it was in january i'd do it for some beer and a blow job [/quote]

Somebodys going to be tired if there are 16 peopel to deal with

I saw someone gigging in our local pub with one of these, i was surprised it kept up but it did, sounded pretty good too.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='625776' date='Oct 14 2009, 10:16 AM']I find it weird you're having no trouble playing the same stuff at home. This is weird but you might consider that you're not the one messing up. Maybe it's the other two? I've had that before, especially on drums where i'm playing the exact right thing but the other two guys keep stopping in the same place. I've always had to change what i'm playing to fit them. Just a thought![/quote]

Some years ago i was playing in a band and we were trying to learn I think it was a doobie brothers tune although I cant for the life of me remember which one.
There was a stop and a drum fill where the drummer went round the toms. we couldnt get the re start right and we said to the drummer, John you are putting in 1 fill too many round the toms, the drummer on the record does 1 less than you do.
His response
Perhaps Ive got more tom toms than he has

[quote name='The_D' post='625388' date='Oct 13 2009, 07:32 PM']

So this isnt you guys [/quote]

Bruce Welch said that that was the tune that sold a million red guitars.

That is absolutely classic, no way could we play with those indian maids around, our pace makers would go off the clock

That clip has been sent of to the local shadows club who will no doubt enjoy it.

[quote name='chris_b' post='625092' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:26 PM']At the end of the day you should remember that, audiences notice the good notes, only musicians notice the bad notes.[/quote]


Thats a great quote

[quote name='farmer61' post='624858' date='Oct 13 2009, 12:09 PM']+1 but goes for all venues IMO[/quote]

I think I was meaning more that all bands and venues are different, so Pink Floyd at earls court wont look the same as the quo at BICC, and was it Bernard Butler who coined the phrase shoe gazing?

Similarly playing to an audience of pensioners doesnt quite require the guitar solo played on the back.

My own point of view is that you use every possible means to entertain the audience you can, music, clothes, lights, movement, presentation, professionalism.

To the OP, as someone else has said, try to be more confident, Im sure you are better than you think. Ive been playing a long time, and I wouldnt win any prizes. The audience generally doesnt notice if you drop one, it depends how you behave if you do. We always have a joke in my band that probably the first tune any of us learned 50 years ago was apache by the shadows, and if we play it now, we still sometimes make a mistake usually because we are not concentrating.

After a very long time, I started singing, Im not very good, but I try my hardest and i enjoy it. The audience hasent thrown anything yet.

Try to always face your audience, find a friendly face in the crowd, and smile at them. You dont have to do back flips. Concentration usually looks like you are getting into it- enjoying it.

Good luck

The squier is better finished, the 51 pickups on the squier [I have a classic vibe 50s] and on the bach are remarkable good.

The butterscotch finish on the bach 51 doesnt look particulalrly good. I would be tempted to buy a natural mahogany bach keep the original pickup but screen it with copper tape, and spend some money getting the frets done if required.

[quote name='retroman' post='623751' date='Oct 12 2009, 09:20 AM']A few thoughts from someone who used to paint cars for a living

You have pretty much been doing things the right way. When I have refinished bass bodies, I have always rubbed them down with a rubbing down block, to get them dead flat. Apply primer coats in even, reasonable light coats, and allow 24 hours minimum to dry, and sink. The more coats of primer the better, if you are working with aerosol cans. Next put a mist coat of black over the body, and allow to dry. Next wet flat with 800, or 1200, with a rubbing down block, and allow the paper to do the work - eg, don't push down hard on the block to try and speed things up! The idea of the mist coat of black is to provide a "guide coat". Where ever the guide coat is left behind, shows up where you have flaws in your primer, eg, pin holes, dings, etc.

If you are seriously struggling, might be worth popping round to a local car accident repair centre. Business for them is pretty slow at the moment, and they can do a really professional job using two pack primers and paint. I refinished the body on my old Aria about 15 years ago, using ICI two pack primer, Ford Petrol Blue base coat, and two pack lacquer. Wet flatted it very carefully with 2000 grit after painting, and then machine polished it to a very deep shine. Still looks mint to this day

Depends what your bass is worth to you, and how fussy you are really


Hope this helps [/quote]

Thanks for that and everyone elses input.

I had to sand the old paint off with a sander and a block, and I have removed some of the wood so i know the joins were level and even before I started. I can only assume that despite all the grain filler and primer, the paint has been absorbed into the join.

I have done as you say, a light coat to highlight the flaws, then rubbing down with a block on all bar the curved bits. And then again when I had a run, and then again when I got an icky.

I put a couple of coats on yesterday after rubbing down with 1200 and it doesnt look too bad, I will see when its dried properly, I might flat it down again if the lines still show.

The bass isnt really worth a huge amount, and anything I do to it will make it better than I bought it. Fussy, now thats another thing. If I do something, I like to do it well. It would be nice to think i could get decent finish, but its probably all down to my personal satisfaction, I doubt anyone else would care.

I had a conversation about this a while ago with the secretary of one of the WMC we regularly play at. He is firmly of the opinion that if the band looks as if they are enjoying what they are doing, they will bring the audience with them. In his view the order is the right songs, presentation, looking as if you are enjoying it, and musical ability within reason a long way last.

Certainly I have seen less talented bands go down better some great bands, when they show some enthusiasm and look as if they want to please.

I always think status quo are really good showmen, their music APPEARS simple, but they always look as if they are giving it 110% and the audience responds.

Obviously it depends on the band and who you are. My comments relate to places like WMC where you are playing to the average non musical punter who wants to have a dance.

I bought a bunch of basses from Bach and sold them on. For the money they were very good value, but the fretting was adequate but only just. The precision and Jazz were very heavy, being made from mahogany. I liked the 51 it was very punchy and l wish I had kept it.

I also bought a white 335 clone with a bigsby, again really good value and not a bad guitar at all. The new squiers are imo better but they are also more expensive.

[quote name='Davo-London' post='622776' date='Oct 10 2009, 11:12 PM']Of these the most important is how the finish affects the tone.

There seems to be some growing agreement that natural finish or oiled finish is best for tone. Some reckon that old Fenders sound so good because these have lost their thin nitro coating, which has allowed the wood to breathe and dry out even more. Some "hidden under the bed" 60's Fenders sound new because the wood hasn't been able to continue to age.


Peace
Davo[/quote]

Taken from [url="http://www.caraguitars.com/fullerplast.asp"]http://www.caraguitars.com/fullerplast.asp[/url]

All Fender Guitars made since 1963 are Polyester coated. Lacquer is put on top of the poly to satisfy the general publics belief that Nitro Cellulose (nitro) Lacquer finished guitars "breathe", "dry" and generally have become the bottom line for creating great tome. I'm talking USA, Vintage collectable instruments that the general public has bought, traded, and sold for over 50 years. They came from the Fender factor with a hard plastic jacket underneath it. A suffocating wolf, masquerading under a cloak of Lacquer Fender later switched to 100% Poly and UltraViolet cured Resin on Squire, Mexican, Japanese, some USA and all other imports till this day.


The two-part catalyzed coating named "Fullerplast" (Fuller for Fuller O'Brien, the products creator, and plast for the obvious PLASTIC"), solved all of Fenders finishing problems; encasing the deep wood pores in a self-hardening plastic that wrapped the body in a rock-hard solid coffin. In some cases we have found it to be as thick as a.060 string. Yes, all of the wood moisture and characteristics are sealed in a virtual time-capsule, only to be vented from the body through screw holes and paint fractures. Share this info and be the hit of your next guitar gathering!


Fender rarely mentions Fullerplast, or the way it prepares its bodies before applying Lacquer. If they mention it at all
So, when someone tells you that a Fender "nitro-cellulose" or "nitro" finished guitar will sound better, have more warmth, or will dry out... they really don't have the full story.

Ask any seasoned guitar craftsman what happens when you will apply paint stripper to a Fender "nitro" finish.

The nitro color comes off within minutes, leaving the guitar with a rock-hard plastic coating that can not be removed with any chemical means. Sandpaper barely scratches this coating, but will remove it with mechanical help. Heat Guns will remove the coating, but not by softening it. Apply heat to the Fullerplast coating and it will remain solid until about 300F, at which time it will crack, and pop off of the guitar.

WIN A BET,
BUT GET A PUNCH

The next time someone brags about how good their "lacquer" Fender guitar sounds, because it breathes, try this.

Take a cotton swab dipped nail polish remover, and take a wipe at an inconspicuous area on the guitar. Either
1) The finish will remain un-touched, or
2) You will wipe away the color coat, and see the rock-hard, insoluble Fullerplast. (sunburst guitar photo on left)

If all the finish comes off and you get to bare wood, the Fender guitar has been stripped and refinished.

Either way, you get to say you know something, before you hit the floor.

It's a fact, , its scientific, and it's the skeleton in Fenders closet, that they never want to be seen. They have kept it locked away like a bastard child, allowing players, collectors, and experts to spread the "nitro" legend as the holy-grail of tone!

When did Fender start the plastic coating process, and why?

Most experts agree that Fullerplast was started to be used by Fender in 1963
There are many experts that are willing to share the facts with the guitar community, just as I am.

The most time consuming part of finishing a solid guitar body, is the process of filling the wood pores, and allowing the paint to lay flay, with a gloss found on Grand Pianos, or automobiles. Fender needed a fast and easy solution in order speed up production during the guitar craze of the early 1960s. Encasing the wood in a smooth, hard, "glass" jacket would eliminate up to 20 hours in each body prep. Fender even experimented with a hot dip that resembled a candy apple method. The problem was that the dip mixture would need to be at a temperature that would damage the wood, or cause body moisture to create "steam pops" in the coating


When Fender switched to Alder (from Ash) as it's primary body wood in mid 1956, many books and authorities state Fender started using the product called "Fullerplast" This is a very misunderstood product. For example, there is a picture in Tom Wheeler's American Guitars, page 54 (upper left corner), of a man with long rubber gloves dipping bodies into a tank at Fender in the late 1950's. The description incorrectly denotes the man is applying Fullerplast to the bodies. Most likely, this man is staining the Alder bodies yellow, a process used on Alder from 1956 and later before spraying the sunburst finish. (2) Thanks to VintageGuitarHQ


Fullerplast is a clear, sprayed chemically curing sealer, unaffected by solvents after it dries. It's invention is often given credit to Fuller O'Brien (but often though to be named after the city of Fullerton, the home of Fender) Whether either is the case, it is now manufactured and distributed by VanDee,

Fullerplast soaks into the wood and creates a seal that prevents following coats from soaking into the wood like a sponge. This means spraying the color coats is easier and the coats can be applied thinner (saving material, money and dry time). Even though alder is a "closed pore" wood, the first few coats of lacquer will soak in like a sponge without some type of sealer coat. Fullerplast dries in 15 minutes, and is paintable in one hour. It is also applied very thin.
Most experts agree the actual product Fullerplast actually started to be used around 1963 at Fender. Prior to that, Fender used other products as their sealer coat, but they did the same thing. The sealer allowed any color coat (be it sunburst or a custom color) to not soak into the wood. Since the sealer is essentially a clear inexpensive primer, less color would be needed (and color costs a lot more money than a cheap sealer).

[quote name='henry norton' post='622989' date='Oct 11 2009, 11:59 AM']Black is a real b###ard 'cos it shows absolutely everything.

Hope this helps[/quote]

Guess what colour it is.
I was going to strip it back to base, there is a lot of primer and paint on it. I attacked it yeaterday with 400,800, and 1200 again, and have sanded out the shrinkage lines, im going to put another couple of coats on and see how it dries.

[quote name='henry norton' post='622522' date='Oct 10 2009, 04:58 PM']'vintage' instruments are often finished in cellulose, clear and solid colours. I think Gibson still uses it on their US stuff too. The thing with polyester is when it gets used and abused it looks beaten up whereas a softer, thinner cellulose finish tends to dull and mellow with age which could be why allot of 'roadworn' instruments look 'roadworn' rather than actually worn for real. You can spray it yourself if you're careful and it's still available for vintage car restorations, although there will come a time when it's illegal [/quote]

There are a number of sites on the web who say that fender changed from cellulose to acrylic paint in the very early 60s at the same time as auto manufacturers did. Apparently because acrylics were easier to use and repair.

The final coat of clear sealer was cellulose, and that is what yellows with age.

I have no real expertise in this its only what Ive read

I thought 60s bridges had threaded saddles?

Any ideas anyone?

I bought a tokai with a really beat up body which I wanted to refinish.
I stripped all the old paint off and the body is made from several strips of wood
Prepared it really well with med, fine etc down to 400 odd grit.
Prepared the surface with rustins grain filler, innumerable coats of grey primer rubbed down with 800 and 1200 grit, looked flawless. Put the colour coat on, finish is fine, but you can see lines where the joins in the wood are.

Im prepared to rub it down and start again, If I use sanding sealer, will this prevent this happening, and is the shellac one ok?

Any other tips?

[quote name='TheBlueFalcon' post='619737' date='Oct 7 2009, 04:46 PM']When an item is faulty or not as described, by law they DO have to pay the return postage. It is only if the customer changes their mind within the "cool off" period that they have to pay the return postage. That is the only plus side to this situation at the moment.[/quote]

paypal and e bay dont you have to pay for the return even if the item is faulty

thats a nice G@L I used to own the 2000 version like that, same finish etc
I nearly bought it back again earlier this year, and then changed my mind again.