karlfer

Beautiful bass. It's great to see folk putting photographic evidence of a bass's provenance, well done fella

Warwick Thumb, German [url="http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Altdorfer/media/DSCF0696_zpsedb8662e.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Altdorfer/media/DSCF0697_zps995817e8.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Altdorfer/media/DSCF0698_zpsa946edcd.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Altdorfer/media/DSCF0705_zpsb266c01d.jpg.html"][/url]

Hm Warwicks you say See the big red writing below this comment

[quote name='tonybassplayer' timestamp='1419934858' post='2644021'] Should this now be a police matter ?? This is not a dispute but a clear case of someone who has set out to de fraud another person and in my book that is a crime ?? [/quote] Nope apparently. Police said it was civil matter and that I should go through the procedures, namely PAINPal, then credit card co, then small claims. Small claims should be interesting with a non-existant address and an irrelevant phone number.

Perfection.

Perhaps now is the time to point out the original poster hasn't been on Basschat since May 28th. So, any interest in buying it may be better through PM

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1419765500' post='2642478'] You must have been fuming... I would have been too... bastards... [/quote] Just a bit, oh yes, just a bit.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1419765106' post='2642470'] The problem seems to be that adequate protection is available but everyone is to tight to pay for it... I always just send a normal paypal and pay the fees. Yes they are expensive but I'm paying for the protection paypal offers. As a seller I accept paypal gift for low value items or ask for the extra to cover any fees, if it was a large transaction I'd just cover the fees myself. I have in the past sent bank transfers, but only to people with extensive feedback threads and a history of selling similar value items. Unfortunately there is always going to be risk... The only way around it would be some kind of third party system as someone mentioned above, where the item and money are collected by a third party before sending out. However this would cost money and no-one seems keen on paying for anything,,, Also I'm guessing there would be potential insurance issues if the bass arrived damaged the seller could claim that it was fine when they sent it out. alot of dishonest bastards out there... What happened to karlfer above is infruiating, I would not be able to let that lie.. I'd be giving up work and hunting them down! [/quote] Try hunting them down when the address turns out to be non-existent and the phone number is for a Sunday football league. Well and truly kippered was I. And I used normal PAINPal, not PAINPal gift

Stunning

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1419539632' post='2640789'] If anyone knows a better system for buying and selling items from/to complete strangers over the Internet, I'm all ears. Until then the options are PayPal or credit card and the promise of 'some' support if things go base over apex. Or there's good old cash in hand and motorway service stations (or other more glamorous rendezvous of your choosing). Or you can pay by bank transfer and be ever the optimist [/quote] The point Ian made that started this thread, was to treat with caution. Reminding people that PAINPal can be dangerous is to be applauded. We know it is convenient but the more people that know it is flawed, the better. And yes, I bloody well do have an axe to grind. But not with you

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1419529475' post='2640713'] Very good advice in this thread. ALWAYS ask the seller to raise an invoice through PayPal and do the deal as a commercial transaction. The PayPal invoice is especially important. It creates an 'official' paper trail (detailing what has been purchased and at what price), which the PayPal support team will use as the basis of any claims should you need to ask them for help. Sellers are billed a % of the sale price for commercial payments (check the PayPal website for details of the fee charged, which varies from country to country). This is the reason why a lot of sellers ask for 'gift' payments, as gifts don't incur a fee for the transaction. Alternatively, it's also not uncommon for sellers to ask buyers to reimburse the transaction fee for commercial payments. This smaller amount can be settled as a 'gift' payment at the discretion of the buyer. Bear in mind that PayPal is set up to help take the risk out of commercial transactions - including private sales - but ONLY if the money is exchanged on commercial terms. Their support team is typically helpful and quick to respond. And their policies are very much in favour of protecting buyers. But... be clear that 'gift' payments aren't covered by their buyer/seller protection policy. So if you exchange money as a gift then good luck and keep your fingers crossed, 'cos that's all the guarantee you're going to get. So yeah. Use PayPal properly and your a$$ is pretty much covered. Cut corners, deal in 'gifts' and it'll be hung out like the back end of a baboon. Just saying [/quote] Beg to differ. My issue wasn't on here and perhaps my naivety was part of the problem Bass for sale on Gumtree. The guy wanted payment to his account on the Friday night, collection by me on Saturday. I thought ok as I THOUGHT PAINPAL covered these things. When I got to no 27 of the street stated...... on the Saturday, it didn't exist. It had been flattened. Numbers 1-15 existed, 33-37 existed, 17- 31 on that street had been flattened. I rang the phone number he had given me. Turned out to be an ansaphone for a Sunday Football League. So, no bass, no money, no point of contact. PAINPal said that as it was a payment to a persons account, rather than a payment for specific goods, that they would not cover it. They changed their minds after some more communication however they finally stated that if there was no money in the sellers account they could only " restrict his account privileges". There is enough time passed now that I have passed it to my credit card company, as the PAINPal account I set up to buy this bass was fuelled by my credit card. We shall see. I was reluctant to pay by PAINPal as I was robbed of £600 and a bass by a thieving git in Italy about 5 years ago. The real point is if you want absolute security, you really need to know all of PAINPal's T and C's. And by the way, as THE BUYER, PAINPal charged me £27 for the transaction. NEVER NEVER NEVER AGAIN.