Phaedrus

Started looking at some 2x10 cabs, and those that caught my eye were ones that are sort of wedge shaped, where they can be tilted back to point up at the player. It seems that the GK RBX210 can be stacked vertically, and are 8ohms each. That'd be a pretty neat stack - small footprint, could be stuffed further into a corner if necessary, and if I was concerned with aesthetics, a pretty good looking stack, too . . . And although it's best to keep all the speakers together, the option to split the two cabs to provide bass on both sides of the stage could be useful. At €355 each from MusicStore, starting off with just one of these and a GK amp might be interesting. I've never really considered GK, though I do know their mid & higher priced stuff (if not the Backline range) is well respected. I'll read up on the 400RB & 700RB amps later today. I gather they're inherently pretty clean and modern sounding, rather than warm & vintagey? Mark

Two TVX210s did dawn on me, but there seems to be only a 4ohm version, making running two not workable. Why on earth did they only make a 4ohm version of the smallest cab in the range?! The cab that's most likely to be paired with another cab . . . The Tour 210 cab is €600, so not an option. Might look at other 8ohm 2x10 cabs, but then it's two lifts, rather than one. Thanks, Mark

I wish I could afford a light 4x10 cab, but I simply can't. The cheapest "light" (30kg) 4x10 that I've come across is Hartke's AK410, at €500. Given that I'm settled on a Tour 450 amp, I'd like to pair it with a Tour 410, but that's way outta range, so the TVX 410 is the other Peavey option. A €330, 46.6kg option . . . So with limited funds, and 2[sup]nd[/sup] hand gear not being appealing or even viable in my locale, I wonder if putting castors on a TVX 410 would remove it from the "this-is-a-fine-cab-but-I-have-to-get-rid-of-it-cos-it's-just-too-heavy" category to the "sure-it's-heavy-but-I-like-the-tone-and-with-the-castors-fitted-it's-a-breeze-to-load-in-and-out" category? Thanks, Mark

Anyone know how different the Morley Dual Bass Wah PBA-2 sounds to the TM Stevens Bass Wah? Mark

There are a few out there. I've been looking for a bass wah recently too, and have listened to a few sound clips and watched a few review videos. I've tried the Dunlop 105Q and it didn't excite me - not enough wah, and non-intuitive (for me). Not that it matters, but I don't like how it looks, either, though it is neat, as wahs go. I preferred the sound clips of the Morley PBA-2, and have used my guitarist's Mark Tremonti guitar wah - I like the way it works, and how it looks, though it does have a big footprint. A BC member suggested I consider the WD, and I found this video, which impressed me when he uses it on bass (around 5:50): [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EnKSkaymdA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EnKSkaymdA[/url] There may be more to interest you here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57876&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57876&hl=[/url] I'm currently sold on the WD-7 (found one second hand), but I just listened to the PBA-2 sound clips again, and I really like them: [url="http://www.morleypedals.com/dpba-2.html"]http://www.morleypedals.com/dpba-2.html[/url] Mark

Hi, Thomann do a few wheels: [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/rack_case_wheels.html"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/rack_case_wheels.html[/url] Adam Hall is a manufacturer, and it looks like you can buy direct: [url="http://www.adamhall.com/uk/AH_K--Flightcase-Wheels__p--project_2__k--34__f--1"]http://www.adamhall.com/uk/AH_K--Flightcas..._2__k--34__f--1[/url] Mark

With the lower price tags, I assume the 'Funky range are basically their for-the-masses, get-them-in-the-door products? Have any of you guys tried any of them yet? £490 for the 410 is interesting for a boutique cab, or at least a cab from a boutique brand. Mark

I threw this together this morning. It's only 4x10s - that's what I'm personally interested in. I'm posting it in case others find it interesting/useful. I trawled Thomann, MusicStore, GAK & The Bass Gallery. All prices are today's & converted today with xe.com. All specs are are those stated by either the shop description or the manufacturer's websites where stuff was missing. I don't think there are too any mistakes in there, but I take no responsibility for any that are there - it's just a rough comparison guide. I did it in Excel, and sorted it by weight (this being the Lightweight Cabs thread), then by price. If someone wants it sorted differently, let me know and I'll post a jpg of that too. If you guys know of other 4x10s I missed, let me know. I don't know how to attach an Excel doc, or if that can even be done? The biggest surprise for me was that you could have a 26.8kg Epifani 4x10 cab for just £490 . . . Mark

Think I've got it sorted. Well, the thoery of it anyway . . . This will keep all my pedals between bass and amp, but still allow me to send separate clean & effected signals to the PA. The Punch Factory has a balanced XLR DI out (selectable wet or dry), so that can send a clean signal to one PA channel. The other signal path goes through my other pedals, the last unit being the VXL Bass Attack. This will send an effected signal to both my amp and to the other PA channel. Any opinions or comments? I know pedal-order is a whole other kettle-of-fish, but feel free to pass comment on that too. Mark

I noticed this quote from another thread: [quote name='Silent Fly' post='728884' date='Jan 29 2010, 04:25 PM'][b][i]Unless pedals were designed to work at line level, it is not a good idea running them in the effect loop.[/i][/b] I would suggest you use your pedalboard between bass and amp. If your bass is passive, I would also recommend a clean buffer at the pedalboard input.[/quote] Could I experience similar problems with the set-up I'm describing in this thread? Thanks, Mark

Good question for these internet-dominated times. If by "blind", we mean not tried in the flesh, then most of my music purchases this time round have been blind - my three basses, the ME-50B, the VXL Bass Attack, the DT-10. But I did read up extensively on everything I bought, both on manufacturer's websites and review websites (& magazines), and I asked questions on forums (here (and back on BW) & TB). Don't regret a single thing. In fact the all three basses have been great surprises - this much money would have just about got me secondhand crap last time round (15 years or so ago). I was disappointed with the ME-50B's switching lag and have since sold it on. Seeing as this is in the amps section, I suppose I should mention my amp. I inherited my current amp from my dad, but two of my local dealers are prepared to price-match the big German & UK online stores for my next amp & cab, so I will be trying them. In truth, if this wasn't the case, I'd be buying blind/unheard from an online store. But again, I've read a lot, and asked a lot of questions. Mark

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='724509' date='Jan 25 2010, 08:22 PM']I have a Hartke VXL, MXR M80, and an Ampeg SVP-Pro. and I struggle to get any of 'em to do what I want!!! Hartke's got a super clean tone. The MXR's built like a tank, but [i]both still just sound like jar of wasps [/i](but less so than an ODB-3!) The Ampeg has an almost liquid mid-range, and will do anything from mild OD to full on scream-athon. It seems to lose bottom end, though. And it isn't footswitchable in a distortion sense. The quest for an ideal distortion unit continues...[/quote] I love my VXL's dirty tones - from light grit to heavy tubey dirt & everything in between. I've not heard mine make the jar-of-wasps buzz sound at all. Mark

[quote name='JanSpeeltBas' post='557032' date='Jul 31 2009, 11:41 AM'][b]Pekka Pohjola[/b], died last November, finnish session bassist and solo artist, played with Mike Oldfield, Wigwam, Made in Sweden, Unisono, Olli Ahvenlahti etc. Bass: Fender Jazz (early 70s) with extra J-pickup between bridge & bridge pu; JoBass custom bass with same pu arrangment (EMG JV); also seen with P-bass and rarely a Ricky. Rig: Carslbro Delta, Acoustic combo in early days. Anyone who can tell me more about him or his equipment can PM me - have lots of transcriptions of his playing, solo's and compositions too...[/quote] At last! Someone else has heard of Pekka Pohjola! My girlfriend went to her uncle's home in NL in 1986/87 or so for the summer, and knowing I was (still am) a big Mike Oldfield fan, taped her uncle's Pekka album, "Mathematical (Mathematician's?) Air Display" (Mike guested). I loved it. I've long since lost the tape and can't find the CD anywhere. Maybe you can help? Are you sure that pic is of Pekka? It seems to be a still from Mike Oldfield's "Exposed" DVD, and the bassist credited on that DVD isn't Pekka - it's someone else (I'll post the name later). If you could direct me to anywhere I might be able to get that Pekka album on CD, I'd be extremely grateful. Mark

Hartke VXL Bass Attack. Not small, and not really good if you want two dirt tones because there's no level associated with the "Harmonics" function, BUT . . . It has GREAT tube-drive tone, from warm & thick to really dirty, and it's always punchy, even more so when you kick in the "Shape" function. I've had mine maybe three years and I've used it with an ME-50B & a DT-10, but I'm currently using just the DT-10 & VXL. I've always had glowing praise for my tone at every gig. Definitely in the "I'd replace it immediately it if was damaged or stolen" category. Probably wouldn't even try any alternative products . . . Mark

[quote name='johnbass57' post='718922' date='Jan 20 2010, 12:59 PM']Its easy to get sucked in to all the science and forget about how it sounds; and how how it sounds is after all very important. [i][b]But then again, how many people by cabs purely based on power handling rather than how loud the cab is or how it sounds[/b][/i] If you are happy with your rig then it would be ridiculous to sell it all cos the cabs dont match. But if you are buying a new rig then matching cabs should be considered and auditioned. If you want to make your rig louder, and are happy with the sound, then adding another cab the same is probably the best option. There are a lot of "what should I buy" and "how do I sound like ..." threads on here, and frankly many of the responses are less than helpful because the answers are "try everything and buy what you like best" and "learn how to play like..." [/quote] To the part in bold italics: I'd suggest that in this day of internet shopping, there are many people that buy all sorts of products unseen/unheard, but rely on manufacturer websites, review websites and forums to glean info & advice. It's rare (but it's a fact) that local music shops will be as cheap as the big online megastores. The "what should I buy" question can never really return any definitive answer, but somewhere in the various replies may lurk something helpful, so I believe the question should usually be given some space. Another plus with (or reason not to fear) this kind of buying is that these days, even if you do buy a truly crap product, it's unlikely that you'll be stuck with it, with three-year warranties and no-quibble return policies being typical with most on-line stores, not to mention existing distance-selling laws. Mark

[quote name='tayste_2000' post='719257' date='Jan 20 2010, 05:00 PM']I use to do it as long as you match the channel volumes and tell the sound guy to just set them the same you shouldn't have to many problems, nothing worse than kicking in a killer fuzz and nothing but plinky plunky clean coming through the PA[/quote] I'll be sure to tell the sound guy - he's me. [quote name='crez5150' post='719266' date='Jan 20 2010, 05:05 PM']You should be able to do this on the desk.... depending on how sophisticated it is... if not you could phase reverse the cable into the desk... pain in the arse really.[/quote] Not a particularly sophisticated mixer, but it does have two channels with a polarity switch. Thanks guys, Mark

So make sure one of them is a channel that has a polarity switch? Thanks, Mark

Please ignore - duplicate post.

Hi, I've been contemplating my live set-up lately. I've been doing this all along: Bass -> tuner -> FX -> DI (Hartke VXL) -> amp & PA mixer. This way, both the bass amp & the PA are getting my effected sound. I'm looking at buying a new amp soon - new band, new start, etc. The amp I'm probably going to get is a Peavey Tour450. I trust Peavey and it's got pretty much every feature I'm looking for and is definitely reasonably priced. So basically I'm thinking of running two separate feeds to the PA - one dry and one effected: Bass -> rack compressor -> amp input. This will allow proper compression of my signal, independent of any effects, fewer pedals on the pedalboard. Amp tuner send -> rack tuner. No prospect of the tuner deteriorating the signal, fewer pedals on the pedalboard. Amp FX send -> FX. Your basic FX loop, but with my DI (Hartke VXL) last in the FX chain. VXL 1/4" DI line output -> amp FX return. This sends an effected signal to the amp. VXL XLR DI output -> PA. This sends an effected signal to the PA. Amp XLR DI output -> PA. The Tour 450 DI out is a "buffered, unprocessed signal", so this sends a dry, un-effected signal to the PA. So I get two bass channels on the PA - one dry, one effected - so FOH can have as much of either as we need. We can afford the extra channel, so it wouldn't be comprimising anything. So what do ye think? Please try to avoid the temptation to dismiss it all as too complicated. I'll have my pedalboard all pre-wired & pre-powered, and I'd have the amp, compressor & tuner all pre-wired & pre-powered in the rack, so I'd only have 4 at-gig connections to make: 1. Bass -> compressor. 2. Amp -> FX/DI. 3. DI -> amp. 4. DI -> PA. Mark

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='203915' date='May 21 2008, 08:43 PM']None of the above. But if I had to settle for commercial cabs I'd use two 2x10s, vertically stacked.[/quote] I noticed a similar post of yours over on TB. What is it about this vertically stacked format that's preferrable to a single 4x10 cab? I've read about close-coupling PA subs to increase perceived bass, and I think I understand it, but I'm not clear on how 4 vertical 10s will be that much different to 2 pairs of 10s? The idea interests me - I'm currently considering a Peavey 4x10, but with our typical "stage" being pretty tight, the smaller footprint of a 2x10 on its end would be a great advantage over the bigger 4x10. [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='205111' date='May 23 2008, 04:03 PM']Never mix different drivers operating within the same bandwidth.[/quote] That flies in the face of the ubiquitous 4x10 on top of a 1x15. What gives? I doubt many of those rigs were/are bi-amped. [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='205178' date='May 23 2008, 06:16 PM']Since different drivers will have differing responses the result is that they will fight each other as much as they augment each other. The right way to do it is to use different size drivers each within its own enclosure, or compartment within a single enclosure, each optimized to operate as well as possible within a smaller segment of the audio bandwidth, so that their combined responses enhance each other.[/quote] You mean like a bi- or tri-amped PA system, where everything below 100Hz (or whatever) goes to the subs (designed for those frequencies), and everything above goes to the mains (again, designed for [i]those[/i] frequencies)? Should the "perfect" bass be bi-amped? Mark

This is all great stuff. I'm sure the content of this thread will be of use to anyone with an interest in their band's PA. Thanks for the replies, folks - keep em coming! Mark

I'll throw out some obvious questions: There's a LINE OUT control on the front of the LMK - does this control the output of the XLR line out on the back? You ran an XLR cable from the LINE OUT on the back of the LMK to one of the inputs on the MG124? Does the MG124's phantom power need to be on? Does the LMK's GND LIFT switch need to be engaged? Mark

I tried a Tour 700 & TVX 115 today. They'll have a Tour 450 & TVX 410 & Tour 410 for me to try next week. The 700 was plenty loud - I had input gain at about 1/4 and output at 1/4 and if the shop wasn't empty I'd have been embarrassed by the volume. The graphic has lots of range on the sliders, the contour knob has a significant effect on things, the octaver is way too much at anything over 12 o'clock, but subtle & useable up to that. Obviously with a 410, it'd sound different than with the 115 I tried. I reckon the TVX will be all I need tone wise - if only it was lighter. The Tour 410 cab is lighter, but a lot dearer, so it'll probably be the TVX for me and a set of 3" B&Q castors. I reckon persuading the guitarists to downsize will go ok, though it won't happen straight away. Like I said in an earlier post, they are all swinging towards focussing on getting the best FOH sound. I particularly like your comment on guitarists caring more about "[i]the tiny nuances of their tone as if that mattered more than the fact they're so loud that the mix is screwed[/i]" That could well be my big sell - the big picture is more important than individual preferences, and it's a known fact that hyper-loud on-stage volumes screw-up FOH. When I was in the music shop today, I asked this same question of the sales guy. Predictably, he offered a smirk and a couple of nods - it's the same with everyone he talks to. He said a 50w valve 1x12" combo is more than enough, even with a PA of half the power of ours. I'll put the guitarist onto that Orange combo - a cool brand always increases a product's attractiveness. Thing is, if they're moving from 100w valve power & 4x12s to under 50w and 1x12, a fair question to me would be "then why are you moving to 450w & 4x10s?" I think know the answers: 1. Valve power is very different to solid-state power. 2. Although low frequencies are less directional than higher frequencies, they don't travel as well as them, so as the frequencies being amplified go lower, the power required to do the job has to increase. Witness the common PA practice of 2/3 of a system's power going to the subs and 1/3 going to the mains - that's what we're doing: 3000w to four 1x18" subs and 1500w going to the two 2x15" mains. 3. The footprint of the TVX410 isn't hugely bigger than a 1x12 guitar combo. 4. Bass needs headroom to give clean tone at volume, whereas rock guitar needs to drive the amp to get dirty tone. 5. Bass needs more power to acheive equivalent volume levels. If you guys can add anything that I've left out, please do. On the stage cloth, where do I go to read more? Sounds interesting. Mark Edited to include points posted in later posts.

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='715287' date='Jan 16 2010, 11:05 PM']I have to say I laughed out loud when I read the first post in this thread. You want a well-balanced tone, without dominant guitars, and you want a good stage sound, without bleed into FoH, and you're using 4x12" guitar cabs with a loud drummer and you're gigging in pubs...you want the moon on a stick! Or else a magic box which sucks sound out of the air... Even if you're playing awkward, long rooms full of obstructions then a better set-up would be to use delay lines or an array. [i][b]Seriously, you can't just keep adding more and more volume from different sources to balance things out.[/b][/i] People's ears just start shutting down at a certain threshold, the more sound you add the worse it gets.[b] [i]Less volume and you will hear yourselves better and your ear damage will also be less severe.[/i] [/b][/quote] On the points in bold italics - I may be misunderstanding you here, but is that just a statement, or are you perceiveing from my posts that it's my intent to "just keep adding more and more volume from different sources to balance things out"? The whole crux of this thread is that I want to [i]lower[/i] our on-stage volume, not [i]raise[/i] it. [quote name='LawrenceH' post='715287' date='Jan 16 2010, 11:05 PM']If, as seems likely given the kit they're using, some band members already have deficiency in their hearing, then they need to get used to using in ears. Too late to save their hearing but it'll save everyone else's and you'll get a better sound. Ironically the one rig that I consider worth having a bit more power for is the bass (and maybe kick drum monitor) simply because those frequencies require such a lot more power and physical space to produce. With your set-up I'd say you'd have trouble getting enough bottom end even with a 500w 4x10", but that would be the least of the band's problems. If all else fails in terms of persuasion, then if you can lug around some heavy stage cloth and hang it in loose folds behind the drummer it will help absorb a lot of the early reflections which will make things significantly less dreadful. For the guitarists, powersoaks on the amps so they can crank them to get the tone. If they just want the sheer volume, then in ears again are the only way they can have this without absolutely ruining front of house sound at 9 out of 10 gigs. As an aside I just can't understand drummers with bad technique (and if they can't play quietly they don't have good technique) who then buy loud drums, WHY??? You sit RIGHT NEXT TO THEM when you're playing them, how loud do you think they need to be?! I sometimes wonder if they understand the concept of the microphone-amplifier-loudspeaker system.[/quote] No deficiencies - they both just like to play loud. IMO, this pretty commom with some guys: when you start playing as a kid, you typically have crap cheap gear, and you aspire to getting what your heroes use (till you realise the cost), even if it's unsuitable for your application. You don't even consider that you'll be availing of PA support, so you play louder and use louder gear so you can be heard. It's basically down to you to make sure your amp is at the best level. And that sticks and persists into later projects. I agree about bass getting a more powerful amp - LF saps more amp power than HF. Mark