Phaedrus

Turns out there are loads of options for pedalboard power supply (as many of you probably already knew). Till now, I'd thought I'd need a separate PSU for each pedal in my board (because all my pedals will be from different manufacturers), plugged into a 4- or 6-way extension socket. My guitarist has a Dunlop DC Brick in his bass FX board (he plays bass in another band): [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/dunlop_dc_brick_power_supply_eu.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/dunlop_dc_brick_power_supply_eu.htm[/url] Thomann also do a few similar products: [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/voodoo_labpedal_power_2_plus.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/voodoo_labpedal_power_2_plus.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/g_lab_pb_1_power_supply.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/g_lab_pb_1_power_supply.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/voodoo_lab_pedal_power_ac.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/voodoo_lab_pedal_power_ac.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/trex_fuel_tank.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/trex_fuel_tank.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/bbe_supa_charger.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/bbe_supa_charger.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/trex_fuel_tank_juicy_lucy.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/trex_fuel_tank_juicy_lucy.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/trex_fuel_tank_junior.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/trex_fuel_tank_junior.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/artec_power_brick.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/artec_power_brick.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_powerplant.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_powerplant.htm[/url] But it's this guy that's caught my attention, and is probably what I'll be choosing, unless anyone on here can tell me why I shouldn't: [url="http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/TheGigRig_Distributor.html"]http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/TheGigRig_Distributor.html[/url] Thanks, Mark

Compressor at the end makes sense to me, on the thoery that however any other effects affect the signal, you should still always have balanced levels. Anything before the compressor is up to the user to try different variations till he gets his favourite set-up. But I have two concerns about that: 1. What if you want a level boost for a solo/chorus/fill/whatever? Will a compressor at the end reduce that level boost to the level determined by the compressors control settings? 2. In my case, my last-in-line is my Hartke VXL Bass Attack - I use it as my DI, so it has to be last. This means any compressor would be before the VXL - how will that bear on things? I'm between FX at the moment (sold my ME-50B so I could get a Squier VMJ fretless), and am swinging more towards separate pedals than a multi-FX unit for my new set-up. ATM, I'm pretty sure my set-up will be: Bass -> Korg DT-10 tuner (already own this) -> Dunlop 105Q wah (yet to acquire this) -> T-Rex Sweeper chorus (yet to acquire this) -> Aphex Bass Xciter (yet to acquire this) -> Electro-Harmonix Bass Blogger (yet to acquire this) -> Aphex Punch Factory compressor (yet to acquire this) -> Hartke VXL Bass Attack (already own this) -> Amp & PA mixer I'm doing a couple of mock-ups to get an idea of the dimensions of a custom DIY board I'll make for them all: I'm well happy with the DT-10 and VXL. The Bass Xciter & the Punch Factory both have XLR DI outputs (not phantom power-able), so in thoery either could be used as a DI. If compression is applied before the VXL, but after everything else, will this mean that any level-boosting pedal (Bass Xciter, Bass Blogger) won't actually result in a volume boost? If compression is applied early in the chain (straight after the tuner, say), is there the risk that any level-boosting pedal wil blow the compressor's good work out of the water? I guess I need to learn a little more about compression . . . Mark

Sorry to mooch in here with a question when you posted looking for answers, but I'm considering a 105Q at the moment - is this tone-sucking a trait of all 105Qs? Thanks, Mark

I've run our PA for all of our gigs for the last three years, and we always struggled with hearing our own vocals onstage while not suffering feedback. I can't offer any magic solution or fix-it product, but I'll make my comments in case they help. We have a DBX driverack PA which has a feedback destroyer built-in. It's slow to eliminate any squeals and only remembers 12 squeal frequencies, though TBH, if all 12 were ever all active at the same time, I'd probably just pack up and go home. We also have a DBX 231 dual 31-band graphic EQ. I put this in the monitor chain (leaving the DRPA handling just FOH) and found that I was able to run the monitors louder and cut any squeals that tried to happen. An EQ with LEDs in the sliders is a great idea. The monitors are HK RS122MA active jobbies - claimed to be 120w, but I think they're inefficient and have poor tonal characteristics. Any increase up the market scale doubles their price, and we run 4 of them, so we got what we could afford. The most effective thing we did that stopped feedback was reduce our on-stage volume. We only dropped a little, but left the monitors as high as we could, and we could hear all we wanted just fine. We also made sure we always placed both the mics and the monitors so there was as little opportunity as possible for a squeal to circulate once it started. We also spoke to the lead singer about good mic technique - for what we're doing, that means lips on the mic except for the screams, never point the mic at a monitor, never let the mic point into any of the FOH speakers. We also ran the PA as an aux-fed subwoofer system which [b][i]really[/i][/b] helped clean up FOH, but that's a bit of an aside. Most effective fix? Reduce on-stage volume. Mark

[quote name='The Funk' post='660826' date='Nov 21 2009, 10:11 AM']At quite a small venue with a massive PA we were once asked to point them backwards/to the side. Thinking about it later it was kind of obvious - [b][i]it means the sound of out front is cleaner[/i][/b], but more importantly that we could all hear each other for a change![/quote] The bit in bold itallics is a big thing - most pro sound engineers would probably love bands to have no backline at all, and just have everything coming back to the band through in-ears or monitors. I'm sure you guys already know that Geddy uses no on-stage amplification. I reckon the cabs in the TBS video are either just tables for the amp heads, which might be DI'd to FOH, or the cabs are facing backwards and mic'd to minimize interference with the FOH PA. Mark

Thanks Markl.

Turns out my guitarist (who plays bass in another band) got a 105Q and didn't like it, so got a Morely. Looks lik I might try his 105Q and make an offer if I like it. I'll bump my question again: Could I use a single 9v power supply with a daisy chain connecting all the pedals, despite them not all being from the same manufacturer? Thanks, Mark

[quote name='Finbar' post='655605' date='Nov 16 2009, 01:02 AM']Lag? You have two feet![/quote] How do you know? Thanks for your replies, Finbar. Call me talentless/skill-less/incompetent, but I don't think I could switch more than one pedal on/off at exactly the same time, like on the one of a solo piece, for example. [quote name='Finbar' post='655605' date='Nov 16 2009, 01:02 AM']I don't know, I've never had these level problems you seem to have with separate pedals. [i]I always just set them to my liking, put them in a pedalboard and just open it up at a gig, and all the levels are intact[/i][b][/b]. If you only want to use compressor, overdrive, wah and chorus, I'd be tempted to go with separate pedals myself. It won't take up a lot of space still.[/quote] The bit in italics is what I'm talking about. What if one tone (in addition to your clean, un-effected tone) needs a bit of overdrive, a bit of chorus, and a small level boost, but another tone needs a lot of overdrive, a bit less chorus, and a bit more level boost? That involves changing the settings on the overdrive pedal and the chorus pedal, and back again for the next song, maybe getting it right on a dark stage, in the short gap between songs . . . And what if your main tone for the whole song is slightly driven already? Do you bend down and tweak the gain to achieve the new dirtier tone? I did have thoughts that I might run two overdrives, one chorus, one compressor, one wah and a tuner, and maybe something like a Bass Xciter. I think I'd only use one type of chorus, and would leave the compressor on all the time, and would have a light gritty drive for some songs and a full-on dirty drive for solos/fills, etc, so maybe separates [i]could[/i] work for me from a tone perspective, [b][i]but[/i][/b] I'd still have the switching-time & levels concerns. I know that when we got a new guitarist in my covers band, he was using separate pedals, and while he really has chops and great attitude, his levels were all over the place, and never the same type of all over the place - a really loud tone might be really quiet next time, and sometimes clean tones would be louder than driven tones, sometimes vice-versa. He tried a GNX4 which sorted the levels out, but never gave the same satisfying tones. I guess from that observation, I've developed aprehensions about separates. Is it silly to say there's a romantic attraction to separates? I really would like to have a board with the right separate pedals to give me great tones - I'd be proud & excited about it every time I opened it. I don't want to labour this and doom the thread to the "ignore" pile - I do think member's answers to my original question would be of value to anyone looking to buy effects, so I'll stop repeating my own issues. Maybe I'll keep my mind open on separates for a while . . . So who else has switched and is happy or regrets it? Mark

Am I right in thinking that with the M9, there are now three choices for effects: separate single pedals, a programmable multi-effects unit, and the M9? It seems it's not a programmable multi-FX unit in the way the Zoom B9.1ut or GT-10B or ME-50B are, but a third, different, solution - is that right? I doubt my needs are uncommon (these are in order of priority for me): 1. Quality compressor, overdrive/distortion, chorus & wah (for me, other effects are largely superfluous or novel) 2. Consistent levels between sounds 3. No lag/delay when changing sounds 4. Durability 5. Versatility 6. Noiseless, specially when bypassed Separate pedals would likely best cover need 1 (at a cost), but I'm guessing that higher-end multi-FX and/or the M9 could possibly give separates a run for their money. Where separates fall down in my observation is needs 2 & 3. Stating some obvious stuff, changing from a clean un-effected tone to a tone with overdrive & chorus means switching on two pedals - there's gonna be some lag there. Also one overdrive tone may need a higher or lower level than another, so there's potential for variations in level there. Again, I know this is stating the obvious. I'm thinking that for my needs, a decent multi-FX unit fits best. There's something really exciting & desirable about using separate pedals, but the inconvenience and level and switching-time issues are big drawbacks in a live setting. At home or in a studio (when someone other than you is paying the bill), it'd be fun and I'm sure rewarding to create great tones tweaking all the controls on each individual pedal, but to recreate those same tones in a live situation with the same separate pedals would surely be literally impossible? At this point, I think I'll start looking at the better multi-FX units under €400. Didn't like the ME-50B switching lag, but did like the user interface. Didn't like my guitarist's and mate's GT-6 and GT-8 user-interfaces respectively, and didn't like my other guitarist's GNX4 user-interface, though I did create or hear some great tones from all those units. I'm drawn to the B9.1ut and I'm curious about the M9, so I'll get researching them . . . Mark

So a scene is where three of the switches have been assigned specific stompboxes of your choosing? Does a scene include the settings and on/off info you've made for the three stompboxes in use? Thanks, Mark

With the M9, can you create patches? I don't see any mention of it on the M9 webpage or on the FAQ page. Thanks, Mark

Hi, We all know the advantages and drawbacks of both a separate pedals set-up and a single multi-FX unit, so who's used one set-up before and changed to the other, and what are your comments/thoughts? Why did you change? Can you see yourself changing back? I'm particularly interested from a playing live perspective - the domain of the multi-FX unit, IMO. I'm on the brink of buying separates, after having used an ME-50B live for a couple of years, but for the combined price of the pedals I'm looking at, a multi-FX is a cleaner, simpler solution for live work, not to mention cheaper than separates. For my part, I need two distortions, chorus, wah and compressor. I'm not really interested in many other FX. I already have a Hartke VXL BAss Attack, so if I spend an average of €120 per pedal, that's nearly €500 on pedals . . . Thanks for any replies, Mark

After reading as much as I could find, I think it'll be the 105Q rather than the Morley, so that pic is ok. I did actually mock one up with the Morely pedal as well and the board was well over a metre long! Thanks for the heads up. Mark

[quote name='woodster' post='651317' date='Nov 11 2009, 08:48 AM']www.diago.co.uk 'nuff said.... [/quote] Their stuff sure looks good, specially the power supply, but what a mess of a site - a little invesnment in a properly designed site would do those guys the world of good. Broken links & missing images abound . . . Mark

Hi, I have a VXL already and can get mild gritty tones to leave on all the time as well as much dirtier tones for solos/heavier stuff. I like the tones I can get. The dirtiest tones I can get from the VXL are about as dirty as I want, so should I be looking at another VXL as an overdrive/distortion pedal rather than a dedicated single-purpose overdrive/distortion pedal, given that I know that I like the VXL as a dirty-overdrive effect? VXLs seem to be cheaper than most single-purpose overdrive/distortion pedals, and I may not like a different pedal (I'll be buying mail order). Thanks for any comments/opinions, Mark

DIY allows you to make the perfect board/case, IF you know you're final FX collection & set-up. I made my own case and it was a dream to set up live - as has already been said: connect to power, guitar in, amp & PA out - magic! My FX collection has changed so I'll be making another soon, and I have a question . . . I have a pretty firm idea of what pedals I want: Korg DT-10 (already have this) Dunlop 105Q or Morley PBA-2 wah T-Rex Sweeper chorus MXR El Grande Bass Fuzz or EH Nano Bass Balls (or some similar decent bass overdrive - recommendations welcome) Aphex Bass Xciter Aphex Punch Factory Hartke VXL Bass Attack (already have this) Here's a mock-up of what I have in mind (I'm not yet sure about physical and signal pedal order): AFAIK, these are all 9v pedals, so my question is this: could I use a single 9v power supply with a daisy chain connecting them all, despite the pedals not all being from the same manufacturer? If yes, can anyone recommend such a PSU & daisy chain? Thanks, Mark

My mate's been banging on about them for a couple of years. I really like "Am I Wry? No", but never paid much heed beyond that. But we went to see them live the other night and I was blown away by so many different things, not least the attention to bass - the basslines were really melodic, the bass tone was fantastic, the bass was quite promonent in the mix. The band generally are all really musical - lots of melodies, both vocal and instrumental. At one point I wondered if Yes or Genesis would even be able to sound as complex and tight (and I'm quite a Yes & Genesis fan). I've hit youtube to find anyone doing a decent cover of the bassline for Am I Wry? No, but there doesn't seem to be anything. Might do one myself if I can get time to nail the line . . . If you haven't checked Mew out yet, they're pretty good anyway and on bass value alone they're well worth a listen. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-S0qJS9mG4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-S0qJS9mG4[/url] Mark

Pre/power just dawned on me as an option - I could have access to a Yamaha P5000S power amp, a very good power amp by all accounts, and from my experience with them. How would the likes of a Hartke VXL Bass Attack (which I currently have) or an Aphex Bass Xciter serve as a pre-amp? Or even a multi-FX unit? What brands of speaker should I look at? Should I be looking at the same cabs as I would be if I was buying and integrated bass amp like the Peavey Tour 450 or Warwick ProFet 3.3? Just starting on this line of research/enquiry, so forgive any dumb questions . . . Mark

Hi. I mean who has, for example, a combo[i] and[/i] a stack? I'm sure there are times when a 100w combo is enough, but there are also times when a 500w head + a 15" cab + a 4x10" cab are needed. So who has such a stable? I know a guy in the real world who has an Ampeg stack (1x15" + 4x10") and a combo. He also has a Warwick Thumb 5 bolt-on, a 70's Stingray, a Thunderbird, a Precision and a couple of other tasty basses. I've currently got a Peavey TNT150BW combo, but fancy a replacement. I'd like a Tour 450 amp & TVX410 cab, but the weight & expense could scupper my aspirations to the point where I may have to opt for something like a Kustom KBA210C. Maybe the stack would follow . . . Mark

I've been looking for a low-priced decent bass chorus for a while. The Artec & Biyang budget products appeal, but I just came across this T-Rex Sweeper on MusicStore today, and the price doesn't seem too bad: [url="http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/IEP/T-REX-Sweeper-Bass-Chorus-Effektpedal/art-BAS0003605-000"]http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/IEP/T-REX-...-BAS0003605-000[/url] Dearer than the budget products, but could be worth it? Have you had any joy finding one, 1976fenderhead? Mark

Cool. No further info on the B2.1U being powerable by phantom. As it's not mentioned in any way in the manual, I take that to mean phantom power via XLR isn't possible. If you could get that info from a Zoom guy, that'd be great. I take it you're "in the trade"? To be honest, even if phantom power isn't possible with the B2.1U, I'll probably still get one - I'll just continue to use my VXL as the last-in-line in my chain, and just use the Zoom for the effects & compressor. MacDaddy, there are a few "reviews" of the B2.1u (and the B2, which I checked out too, on the presumption that the sounds could be the same) on youtube, but none I've viewed have decent enough sound quality to be able to make a confident assessment: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l813cvyQjJA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l813cvyQjJA[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45MIzb0QNSU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45MIzb0QNSU...feature=related[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l813cvyQjJA&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l813cvyQjJA...feature=related[/url] Mark

Hi Wud, I don't know if you're being sarcastic - you didn't use smilies to indicate, but your tone seems sarcastic to me. And that's fine - I use a little myself from time to time. I don't know your level of experience or areas of expertise, but (I really don't intend to sound patronising with this - I apologise if I do) maybe there's just some confusion or misunderstanding regarding the terms/principles involved with phantom power: The VXL Bass Attack (and other similar products) can be powered by 48v phantom power supplied [i]from[/i] a mixer's XLR audio [i]input[/i], [i]into[/i] the VXL Bass Attack's XLR audio [i]output[/i]. That's how phantom power works - it travels in the opposite direction to that of the audio signal. Same principle whether the source being powered is a condenser mic or a DI unit. A few clarifications/definitions: The XLR connector of the VXL Bass Attack is an audio [i]output[/i]. The XLR connectors on the channels of a mixer are audio [i]inputs[/i]. The VXL Bass Attack can be powered by receiving 48v phantom power [i]from[/i] a mixer's XLR audio [i]input[/i], [i]into[/i] the VXL Bass Attack's XLR audio [i]output[/i] connector. A repeat of a key quote from the VXL Bass Attack user manual: [color="#FF0000"] [i]If you are connecting to a mixer that has phantom power, the Bass Attack can be powered by connecting a standard mic cable to the [b]Direct Output[/b][/i][/color] Here's a different product type that can also receive 48v phantom power [i]from[/i] a mixer [i]into[/i] its XLR audio [i]output[/i]: [url="http://www.peavey-eu.com/pop_product.php?flag=IE&lan=UK&key=1882"]http://www.peavey-eu.com/pop_product.php?f...UK&key=1882[/url] "[i][color="#FF0000"]DI XLR output with fail-safe phantom power backup capability[/color][/i]" There's a link on this page ( [url="http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/P/5390/RQ+2318"]http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/P/5390/RQ+2318[/url] ) to the user manual for my band's PA mixer, the Peavey RQ2318. This quote from the manual talks about the mixer's 48v phantom power capability: "[i][b]14. PHANTOM POWER SWITCH:[/b] Applies 48VDC voltage to the [b]input XLR connectors[/b] to power microphones that require it. If phantom power is used, do not connect unbalanced dynamic microphones or other devices to the XLR inputs that cannot handle this voltage...[/i]" If anyone else reading this can correct me on anything I'm saying, please do. Mark

Thanks CT. Do you connect your guitar/keyboard/mic into the B2.1U for recording those? Local dealer has it the B2.1U for €168. The TNT might just cover that . . . Dearer than the online places, but I do need to trade in. Mark

[quote name='Wud' post='633655' date='Oct 22 2009, 06:46 PM'] I really dont think you want to try and send a 48v Phantom Power supply into any unit via an XLR Output. The XLR output won't accept Phantom Power into the the unit, as it's not a Mic Preamp. You quoted the answer after your question Phantom Power is to power Condenser Mics and not a way to provide pedals with 9volt power over an XLR out[/quote] Thanks for your input Wud, but before you go misleading someone else reading this thread, and perhaps to enlighten yourself, check out page 7 of this owner manual for the Hartke VXL Bass Attack: [url="http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related_docs/BassAttack_ownman_v6.pdf"]http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related...k_ownman_v6.pdf[/url] "[i][b]Power the BASS ATTACK[/b] [color="#FF0000"]You can power the Bass Attack [/color]with a standard 9-volt battery, a standard DC power adapter, or [color="#FF0000"]by applying standard 48-volt phantom power[/color]. You can use which ever power source is most convenient, however, you should keep in mind that there are, from time-time, trade-offs. You may have a well grounded live sound or studio set-up that will not exhibit ground loop problems, but when you are on the road or in other studios you can have ground loops. Because of possible ground loops, which are part of live sound and recording, you may want to consider using a battery to keep the grounds from the Bass Attack isolated from the grounds the rest of your gear. You can check the phantom or AC operation with a quick sound check to listen for any buzzing. If there is no buzz you have a well-grounded system. If your hear buzzing, go to battery operation. Hey, life’s a trade off, so is powering your audio gear. [b]PHANTOM ON - OFF / GROUND CONNECT / LIFT SWITCH[/b] The PHANTOM ON -OFF / GROUND CONNECT / LIFT SWITCH is a latching switch that provides two functions at the same time. In the up position, the switch connects Ground on the XLR cable, and by doing that, the switch also allows the unit to be powered by a phantom power supply. When the switch is set to the down position, the ground is disconnected, and therefore, the phantom power operation is disabled. [b]Using Phantom Power[/b] [color="#FF0000"]If you are connecting to a mixer that has phantom power, the Bass Attack can be powered by connecting a standard mic cable to the Direct Output[/color]. Be sure to check that the mixer’s phantom power switch is set to the “on” position. Then, make sure that the PHANTOM ON - OFF /GROUND CONNECT / LIFT SWITCH is out so that phantom power is enabled.[/i]" The VXL is not alone in its ability to be powered by 48v phantom from a mixer. I may be visiting my local dealer to try to trade my TNT150BW against a B2.1U in the next week or so. I'm not currently gigging, so for now I can do without the amp. I reckon I'll give the compressor in the B2.1U a chance before getting a separate compressor. Mark

A couple more questions . . . Can the B2.1U be powered by phantom power into its XLR output, or just by batteries/PSU? The manual doesn't say, all it says is this: "[b][BALANCED OUT] connector[/b] This XLR connector can be used to send a balanced line-level signal to PA equipment, recording devices, or similar." How relevant is the inclusion of Cubase LE software? After buying a B2.1U, am I immediately in a position to record bass, guitars, vocals (assuming I have thise instruments)? Thanks, Mark