JTUK

Not sure how long this tour is going on, but any bass player would do it..and then in 2-3 years time, they decide whether to do a final fairwell tour. I would have thought they'd have called it a day already, but someone wants the money and keep it all going..

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1474535934' post='3138600'] I think a desk, two tops, stands and two monitors are a pretty small PA. I can't see anyone demanding money for use of that. It'd be nice if the rest of the band show some token of appreciation though. The problem is its one of those band tasks that get shared out, but it's the only band task that has to be done at set times. Before and after each gig. All other tasks, promotion, websites, set lists, can be done at your leisure. There's a difference between having use of the PA and just expecting it to be there. I only started charging the band when they stopped helping with setup and breakdown, expected a Wembly arena a sound and studio quality monitoring. The PA get bigger and the expectations became unrealistic. [/quote] If the gtr ( for eample) owned that and loaded it up etc etc etc ...that is 4 loads per night and probably double in size to what he'd do if he only had his kit. ( Gtrs, amp, cab, pedals etc) That also means he is..or needs to be.. first in and last out. Drums are last in, first out, so there is an imbalance straight away in terms of time 'having' to be at the gig. Of course, everyone tries to muck in but the work load is different so if someone had £2-3k in the P.A that saved the band having to contribute that, then I'd think it would be quite hard to argue against it. The proof would be in the fact that if you didn't have this 'gift' you'd have to source one and collect and take back etc etc ..so even on a pub date you'd have hire charges. The way to do it would be no payment to the P.A holder on pubs unless over a set threshold, but conversely on bigger better payers, the return to him would take into account the 'free' gigs. Example. £1k fee. The P.A lights and admin would be paid from a 6th share of the fee...which would probably be something like 6X£150 and £100 to the kitty. The P.A hire would generate something like £80 extra for the owner, lights would be less and so on... but would take into account non-pay-outs on lesser payers. No one is earning any less that £60 so that is what the kitty is for..subsidise or to pay for cheapo/fun gigs.. All in all...far cheaper way of doing things. Fair enough, the owner doesn't want payment..but if the issue comes to a head... best pay it. IMO. (Also depends what the P.A is as to how much it generates) There are some P.A's I wouldn't use, tbh..

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1474459434' post='3138160'] It depends what it's being used for. [/quote] Quite, a vox P.A is owned by the singer. But if you have a P.A for the band...and everyone goes through it, that is a bigger outlay and a bigger load so that means the guy who does most of it needs to be paid or he will get fed-up. He might say he needs a bigger car, fuel costs etc etc It is a can of worms but I just think it is easler to thrash out a deal and pay it.... This only really works on gigs/bands that can justify carrying a bigger P.A and gigs that pay for it... and then you get into kitty's etc etc .

[quote name='Sammers' timestamp='1474382320' post='3137532'] You're paying for the customisation options rather than upgraded hardware, surely? That's what I've always thought the custom shop was, essentially just an American Fender but with the option to change a few bits [/quote] Do you get that choice..?? Not sure you do? I didn't buy it new, thankfully, but I've looked at a few CS options, and they don't seem to itemise what you can 'customise' very well. I agree ..colours and neck profile and maybe the woods... altho how much you can actually pick yourself is unclear...and for that, you pay an extra £1k plus..?

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1474369763' post='3137418'] I can see your point of view but.... For me my cabs are there to move some air behind me, and the PA system is what supplies the audience with bass. Agreed in smaller venues the rig has to do both, but if it doesnt sound good where I am, then I won't play well! [/quote] Precisley..and neither might the band if they can't hear it well enough. If it sounds sh*** at source, chances are no one is rescuing that sound at any point..and do you know anyway..? I never trust a sound man I don't know..he might be blinding, he easily might not.. That is assuming you have a sound man. I have a list of engrs I wouldn't call again, and even if they freelance, (which they do) I would probably not like them on the gig. Far better to have a list of Engrs you know can do the job..even with their own gear or hired in.

I had to dep this the other day... the crucial thing is the drummer gets the heartbeat. The difficulty of the little frill depends which key you play it in but it also depends if the drummer is up to it which in turn dictates how hard he will make the whole track. If the drummer has got it, it is mainly a chick song as invaribly every girl singer wants to do it. On songs like these...bass players get hung up on the fill, when the essense is somewhere else. No good nailing that fill if the song groove sucks. Check the drummer.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1474364193' post='3137357'] Perhaps, as alluded to above, they will simply have a lower end Mexican Standard and a higher end Mexican manufactured 'Professional' line... I have 2 AS basses from post 2008, and they are both great. I have a Road Worn Flea Bass and a Baja Telecaster, both Mexican manufactured. Both instruments have an extremely high build quality, and I am a fussy buyer. The only let down is the gig bags, but seen as though I bought both before recent rises, (the Baja was a very good price) they are good 'value' for what they are....and I don't see them as any less compared to the AS basses I have. [/quote] I've owned a CS and they use parts that are used in the Am deluxe model. That means the pre amp, the bridge and probably the pickups are the same and none of them jump out at you as top quality parts. The stock tuners aren't that great either, so basically that CS uses parts from a 'lesser' model...IMO. The paint job might be different, and the wood a grade up, but nothing that shouts at at nearly £3k which you'd pay for a new one if i'm not mistaken. In that respect the Am Deluxe would be an ok price, but I'm thinking people wouldn't pay it too often over a Standard...? So that means the F badge is still the driver in this and I don't believe CS is any standard to boast about and especially for the new price. The only reason I bought one was because all the deflation had been suffered by someone else and I knew I'd benefit from the F CS brand if/when I sold, but there is no way I'll pretend it is any benchmark. It just isn't so... I would put CS as maybe comparable to a Metro... and what would sort the winner out between those two would be the quality of the components, which I think the Sadowsky would win..especially against the poor bridge and pre amp of the CS/AM Deluxe. I basically swapped out all the hardware on a CS... so I bought the wood basically.. and I'd have done better getting someone like Sims to scan my required dims on some nice wood..and fitted decent after parts from Hipshot and the like. It would have been a much better bass, I'd wager, but the problem would have been trying to get £1k for it when selling...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1474328430' post='3137230'] I know what you mean. I have 7 basses. I'm not a collector. I bring 2 to every gig, they all get played in rotation. Last weekend it was my G&L ASAT and the Gibson ES 335. This weekend it will be one of my MIJ Fender Ps and my Gibson Thunderbird (traditional tobacco burst). Blue [/quote] My basses are set up pretty precisely and I have them to allow me to do what I do. Very often I'll throw in something that comes to me and I need to be able to pull it off. The sound is very different..if you listen that close, or typical RW jazz...and I decide at soundcheck which one is the main bass for that gig. I can take out just the one bass, but much prefer to take two.

If they don't get used, they don't get the 'love' so they can be sold. I've never 'got' a huge collection that never gets played... Must be just me then....

Don't always agree with Schroeder... for small gigs I think they do really well for such a small cab, but they can get lost out front when the band gets bigger. I agree that they seem to have quite a profile amongst a lot of people but the mid bias may get chewed up when keys and gtrs are in the same space. The low end then seems to get very cloudy and the bass is not doing the job it should do...certainly on the smaller cabs. I wouldn't expect the larger cabs to suffer but if they do... and I know who uses them to check that out...then that is a fail. Bass players like them because THEY can hear them... not so good if that doesn't transfer out front with support.

I think the CS is a distinctly average build. The only thing that perpetuates the whole deal, IMO, is the F on the headstock. People say the 2012 builds upped their game across the board..?? but I just don't think Fender are that interested or committed to that goal, they just want to do enough to continue selling. The really discerning buyer knows there is much better value elsewhere... For example, a Sei J5 would wipe the floor in every respect of a CS, a good few times over but their new prices are comparable. One is a hand made bespoke instrument and the other is a bitsa from other ranges in the brand... namely the American Deluxe. IMHO, of course. The Am Deluxe is discontinued and is replaced by what... a new name and promo campaign..??

The Heat is on-Glenn Frey.. I just can't make it stick on a dep gig... If the drummer was musical or played it dead straight, then it would have half a chance...but no, it is a bloody pain.

I'd say pretty much anything could be an approvement on the Fender... but I'd go for a Glock. The problem with the Fender, IMO, is that it is ok in a very narrow spectrum...and is not flexible enough in less than very good conditions. As soon as you are out of that 'sweet spot', that is where your problems start.

I think the pre amp should be the first thing to attend to. I don't Fender pre amps are very good... I'd call them agricultural at best..

I think the song choice is a good one for the right pub.... the key to it is the drummer during the intro riff so that either works or it doesn't so it will be test for them as well. If they don't nail that, then the song will have the best part missing IMO and the band aren't as good as they might think they are... But anyway... we'll never know now..??

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1473935672' post='3134266'] I own the PA... I charge the band for hire [/quote] If it is down to one person, this is the way to do it. Chances are that this way they get a very good P.A, tranported and maintained for a reasonable sum. On cheap gigs the owner loses but on the big payers would rent for a share of the fee, so for a 5 piece the fee is for the 6th share...so an £1800 gig would put £300 into the kitty and about £200 of that to the P. A rental rental. When you determine the figures like this, you might find one or two others would be willing to invest

I'd be thinking they'll make a decision on the bass player based on which one has a P.A. Since they've raised the issue the way they have, I'd give them a wide miss..

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1473771840' post='3132966'] How DARE you!!! Are you implying Leo didn't get it all 100,000% correct !?!?!?! The Fender Police Dept will be along in a mo' [/quote] Never in a million. That is why there are so many clones around doing it better For the price of a CS, I am very VERY confident I could get 3-4 times the bass from a luthier charging the same price....but the F logo is very very powerful magnet to the gullible..IMO Having said that, you can luck out on a good one but you have to be careful searching for it, IME.

You need to set the references by showing him. If he doesn't know, and you want to keep using him, show him what you need it to be. Do a sound check A lot of people don't get that a sound check is to get the levels set..and then be left alone... There is no point to setting levels if a free for all exists as soon as you start playing. No band gets good reviews with a bad mix...

I thought it looked like it would be a great show.... I feel MJ could have lived up to the expectation one last time, which is always the problem..how to top the extravaganza before it.. I'm not sure of the personal side but as an artist, I think he still had 'it'.. and that is always a shame when cut down prematurely...

[quote name='lowland' timestamp='1473779884' post='3133063'] I was fortunate enough to play bass in a pickup band for whom Graham Broad was drumming; this was in the 80s, a one-off at a large (30,000) festival. I'd played with a couple of good drummers before, but for me this was like an electric shock up the spine in a good way. All through rehearsals, if the arrangement changed he never forgot (everyone else, including some serious players, regularly did), he was endlessly cheerful and encouraging, and made me look far better than I was. The groove quotient was fantastic, rarely doing anything tricksy - concentrating instead on driving the machine - but when he did it was appropriate to the music and top drawer. Unsurprisingly, that's been my yardstick drummer-wise ever since! [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Broad"]https://en.wikipedia...ki/Graham_Broad[/url] [/quote] It is easy to see a drummer who is decent pro standard and has a good gig... and compare what the really special guys have. When you have that perspective, ( you are going to have to play with them) you really know what a good drummer is. IMO.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1473778191' post='3133049'] I was on drums at a gig once, and I knew I would have to be subdued and quiet due to the crowd/lineup/venue. However, the soundman pissed me off early on with a bad attitude. When he asked me to go around the kit, I thrashed the sh*t out of it playing some stupid metal and fast fills etc. just to let off some steam. I think anyone who saw that would have assumed I was either a bad drummer, or wouldn't suit the band I was with. After we played, the soundman approached me to say "When I saw you at soundcheck I thought you were going to be a nightmare, playing too loud and all over the place. I was so wrong, nice set!" So, I think sometimes you see a musician out of context, and you shouldn't make assumptions... This is ridiculous [/quote] Fraid not... It doesn't matter about the context, it is how he strikes and fills.. I'll know what sort of panache he has. I wouldn't always extend that to whether the guy is any good... he might be, but not my cup of tea. And I can tell that instantly.

[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1473773295' post='3132993'] ...I thought we were on for another drummer joke there! [/quote] made me chuckle...

I'd give Arron Armstrong a ring. I suspect he would know or be able to recommend. It wasn't unknown of KA to wind them in the first place...and a good few other pickups.

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1473764648' post='3132850'] C'mon guys give me a break - I'm a drummer and I'm getting increasingly upset ... So, how do you tell if it's a good drummer? Ears. Does the drummer listen? Can they react to what's going on? They should alter their dynamics to fit he song/section of the song. They should pick the right stick, they should be able to play quietly - this is the true test. I play bass with a ton of drummers at church. Most are poor by my criteria but you can forgive a lot if they listen! Davo [/quote] One part or it, but really that is a given, IMO and you apply that to any member of the band. As regards drummers, you have to hit them right to make them sound good...as if you don't, no amount of EQ or tuning will really rescue that. Then you need good fluidity between your left and right... and then you need good Rhythm.. the more you have here, the better. And then you need musicality. If you have all that, you'll have a pretty good pro standard player. The more you have of those 4 things, dictates how good the gig they can get. IME.