JTUK

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1470431910' post='3106032'] I think saying the tks struggle with loudness and lows is a bit unfair; given that providing tons of either isn't what they're made to do. [/quote] Considering the job I'd given them to do, but I thought it may be a problem, but I also knew the volume would need to be reigned in. It wasn't and they coped well... And I'm very picky about that sort of thing. I've commented about weak sounds enough so wouldn't want to get caught myself... Etc.. But, by the same token you need to be reasonable with your expectations. The second gig to smaller audience wowed me... Tone is not the problem with these cabs, for sure, but neither is their ability to carry a band at an outside gig. Yes, I was very impressed. So much so that I've a few more gigs of this ilk coming up and a few stages and I'm considering using them rather than my best stage rig...

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1470405979' post='3105807'] 2 x 112's are strange creatures. I had 2 TKS 112'S and although the sound was lovely, I REALLY had to drive an amp a lot harder to get anything like volume out of those cabs. Our drummer always has snare and kick mic'd up. Both guitards use Blackstar heads with 212's. Never had any problem with 2 x 112's by Berg, Vanderkley or Genz Benz, especially without pa support. Try as much as you can. [/quote] This is odd...as the S112's were the cabs that performed REALLY well outside. Up against 4kw Elements and a 5150 driven hard. I was gunning the 800w head around 2 o clock which was I would say, as hard as I wanted to go... but this was to a Biker audience of maybe 150 plus. It did ok... The cabs sound great tho..but yes, wouldn't expect to do that sort of gig with that rig too often. More thought needed- but not my gig, I'm just depping. I don't get any further involved.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1470350300' post='3105494'] It's a little different in the US. It's the originals clubs that always expect the band to bring a crowd. And ironically in Milwaukee most if not all have a cover charge. Most bars and clubs that hire cover bands have a built in crowd. Blue [/quote] But they don't stay for the full set of 4 hrs..? In the U.K... you wouldn't want most gigs to go beyond 2 hrs. Altho of course they are exceptional crowds and nights so they wont let you go. Besides your £50 plus per head wont get bands playing longer anyway.

If the players aren't quite there for you right away... then it is just a question of how long you can hang on for until you gel. I tend to be pretty brutal on drummers with regards to groove and time .. but that is because I've been very lucky to play with some very very talented guys so the bar was set high. If the guys will take a bit of direction and don't try too hard...solid sound and time is sometimes all that they need to get... then a handful of gigs will get them there. Playing a set well trumps the songs IMO. It is very hard to have a popular that everyone loves... I do agree it should be the goal, but sometimes killing the set can get you by. I'd at least give it a hearing to see how far apart from your expectations they may or may not be...

If the band is any good they should be able to lift that set above it being pain to play....but if they can't and/or you don't fancy the gig then don't do it. For me the band and players would matter much more than that set

[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1470317976' post='3105060'] Right, so you say you need lots of cab to not sound weak over 25m? how many gigs are there where you need to have enough "range" to cover that from a backline? I use a single Barefaced compact (with no EQ'd mid hump, P with tone rolled off) and I've never heard anyone say my bass doesn't carry, that's anywhere we've played, inside and out. As far as I'm concerned, the PA should be doing any heavy lifting required beyond where my tone is rich and full, which is further away than an acoustic drum kit would sound. I get that in some scenarios the PA is better taking care of higher frequencies, but I'm buggered if I'm lugging around an 30kg of cab to gigs in just in case the PA is underspecced. They generally aren't and I've yet to meet an engineer who says "oh brilliant, use your backline for bass, that's great", except in pub gigs. in which case having a rig that's doing the PA's job is a little moot. [/quote] 1st off..turn up on a dep gig and find out the weather is great and you are outside...so that could be more often than you'd like in the summer and I'm pretty sure it would catch people out in that regard. But do you know how far any given rig you use works to ..? If you would be buggered if you'd carry 30kg then you need be pretty diligent about your P.A spec. and know it covers the gig. If it is a stage gig, you either cover the stage with your backline or you need good monitors/fills to do the same job. You also need to have had the P.A specc'd to cover the gig. Some bands don't care enough to do that and that is fine. it depends if you want to restrict yourself like that when it is a pretty basic thing to cover.

Woefully out of date reference but I had a bombproof PV with a BW. That is all you could say about it tbh... bombproof. Soundwise, it just couldn't cut it. Nowadays I wouldn't even bother but our expectations move on. You need to demo it in context and then have a pairs of ears you REALLY trust to tell you how it is...or failing that, record it from afar at a gig..just so you hear how the bass sits with the band. My pet theme atm is.... don't settle for 'cut thru', settle for underpin or provide a foundation for the band...and these two 'goals' are miles apart in terms of people's perspective , IMO.

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1470313596' post='3105008'] You really only "need" to be as loud as your drummer if neither of you are through the PA. The same applies to guitarists although I've never had to ask a guitarist to turn UP. So any decent 2 x 12 cab and even some 1 x 12 cabs will do this. Some players [b]prefer the feeling of fullness of sound [/b]given by a multiple-speaker rig. That's nice but not essential. Frank. [/quote] I would say it is pretty essential otherwise your band sounds weak. It is no use having bass that is just heard as being 'there'.. Too many bass players do this with a middy sound and they do this to 'cut thru the mix', IMO. This can miss the point of bass in the band. No band will get good reviews sounding weak, IME.

I've had two recent outside gigs where I was 'hopeful' I would hit the back of the crowd with 2x112 cabs. The amp was 800 but the cabs 500w. I was certainly 'concerned' about it working. I am not confident I hit the crowd well enough at the back of 60mtrs but I've heard some video on another gig at 30mtrs and I was definitely there. I had plugs in too as gtrs get very loud in situations like this. For reference, P.A companies will often 'spec' their P.A hires to be suitable to a certain amount of people. This seems to work. If you have a wedding or small pub beer festival in a tent, do you want to blast the bar 45mtrs away..?? no..not at all but you want to sound good over 25mtrs or so. For a small festival stage with dubious monitoring, I'd take a 212 and 210 and know I'll fill the stage and beyond. Then the P.A spec has to be good enough to take over quite a way beyond that.

The difference between pubs dates now and 20 yrs ago, for example, is any pub can put on music with hardly much thought...so they do. A large town on a sat night can have 9 pubs doing music so pubs expect bands to draw and with social media it is so much easier. But pubs are always too much work for the money so make sure your reasons for doing them suits you and works..

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1470229160' post='3104268'] Do you DI straight from the bass into the desk? [/quote] Invaribly thru a DI box so amp is bypassed in that regard for signal. I'll have a chat with the Engr and give him a demo of the sound I'm using. My stage monitor is primarily the stage monitor and it will be run loud for the stage. If we have a stage mix Engr my main concern is the stage sound still.

Are they a regular venue...do you know the other bands that play there...have you been to gigs there. All this adds up to what sort of place are you playing. Pubs, for sure, have a very high turnover of managers/owners etc etc and the market is tough. I'd tell them straight that we don't do 'auditions' but would also be able to back that up with other known bands and players that would give them an idea of what they are taking on. If he wants a free band at short notice..and I get why this is attractive to you.. then he can't expect YOU to do all the work and get everyone there. This is one reason why you don't want to do non-established pubs. I'd expect the pubs to have 30 or so music regulars and add to the same number you might be able to russle up, you are onto a decent evening. If he wont accept start-up bands, then why should you accept start-up gigs..? Too many pubs are chancer venues. I would tend to be on good terms with the pub or have a rapport and they trust what I say..I'm not looking to con them..and neither should they be. Who needs that..?

I'd say Berg myself and some of the Smaller U.S makers. I would have said Aguilar but they are mainstream now...and probably build to a pricepoint first and foremost..although seeing the prices maybe not.. Having said that, IMO, the DB series are epic cabs and the company has a solid background in sound established over many many years at the sharp end so there are vey clear at what they are trying to produce IMO and that ethic within the company remains, so I'm told.

Normally I'd say fuses blow for a reason and therefore get it looked at and have that reason determined but in this instance you know what caused it...and that should be entirely avoidable easily enough...certainly in the short term I'd run the bass and amp for a LONG time to ensure the amp can work for you on the next gig. Might take a spare as well...just in case. I have a very large box of fuses in my gig bag and I'd always want to put the same spec in... But this wasn't a failure as such so I think short term the 8amp will be ok... The risk is that some damage 'may' be there so another spare amp negates that... and if it does blow up, then suck up the cost as these things happen. At least it will have then been given a clean bill of health by a good amp tech. That would be my plan and thinking...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1470060721' post='3102978'] If it's already compressed they have no need to compress it again? It doesn't work like that. It's like you saying I'm not going to EQ my bass because I don't want it EQ'd twice. If it sounds good already why would any engineer fiddle with it. As the article says it's a very fine line between too much and just enough. If you've got just enough then there's no need for anyone to add more. PA should be all about sound reinforcement. . [/quote] Lots of ifs there. But once you've quashed the sound you can't get it back. This may not be your objective but on stage you've set compression for the backline...and this may or may not suit the goals of the FOH Engr. I don't need help with level or dynamics or balance across the bass... so I don't use any. The Engr FOH is using compression to control the bass and subs. Might not be the same goal at all.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1470160640' post='3103746'] This "Never been gigged" thing. Couldn't this also be rephrased as "Good luck with this, I hated it from day-1" ? [/quote] Could be..

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1470024995' post='3102709'] Playing a festival soon where a Line 6 bass combo is provided. I realise that this is only for stage monitoring as I will be DI'd, but as Line 6 are one of the few bass amps I've yet to try just seeking players views? Cheers [/quote] I used on on a session... I can't recall if they told me what was available but I figured it would be for the room anyway as we had an isolation room for the kit. I used a 115 Combo which had 6 pre sets on a switch and I settled for the SVT emulation. I came away thinking it was usable on small gigs, quite light, altho I didn't have to move it around much, and a reasonable bit of kit for the pricepoint which was around £500 iirc..

I'm not sure of the value of Ads..most things are by word of mouth, IMO. That way there is a degree of vetting in the equation already.

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1470132087' post='3103412'] In a live setting, I have found that people will judge a band (at least to some extent) based on their appearance, so it follows that one may have to consider the look of one's instrument as a consideration of one's image. This is why, in the name of science*, I want to get hold of a Daisy Rock Butterfly bass and see whether I can get away with playing it on stage. *[size=2]For a very loose definition of 'science'...[/size] [/quote] Yes... Some people determine, 'must be a Fender' so rightly or wrongly it is/can be a factor...just as the 'uniform/Stage clothes' maybe. I recall having a wardbrobe guy on the gig... but it was all wasted on me..

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1470127441' post='3103359'] Ah come on, you know how it is - they'll notice us when we stop playing [/quote] Must be my vanity, insecurity, uber preciousness kicking in....

[quote name='Vinny' timestamp='1470049909' post='3102858'] I had to vote 'other' despite having no posh gear. If I hear a great bass sound, my eye seeks out the cab first, then amp, then the floor round said player's feet. Only if I see nothing more than a DI box and a lead will I think 'That bass sounds fab'. I've done plenty of gigs on a G4M P that I got off the ebay for 30 tokens. [b]No-one noticed or cared.[/b] But then, I have been known to rock up with a pink daisy, so shouldn't be listened to on this whole subject. [/quote] I wouldn't like this so much... I'd consider I wasn't worth a comment which wouldn't be good at all. I'd make a point of it not happening like that. Half of that would be my playing personality and half of it would be that I'd make a difference. If people don't notice or don't care they are likely oblivious-which is also not good, or they really don't care. I can't decide which would be worse...

I use the front pickup to give some thump... Funnily enough I don't like it on its own, but I like a P bass when I hear tracks. I just don't hear it with what I do...

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1470052856' post='3102890'] From the Aguilar website "It also features four [b][i]custom-voiced[/i][/b] woofers with Neodymium magnets" Anyone know what they mean by "custom-voiced"? Frank. [/quote] I'd be guessing that Aguilar have directed a sound bias from the chassis. They'd do this if they wanted to make the cab smaller..and found the previous incarnations couldn't work with that..or it could be 'sales talk' and mean that they have an off the shelf driver' simply rebadged. They might need to show why this cab replaces the old one.. What is in a facelift..?

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1470013979' post='3102704'] They never ask. They've never commented. Why would they? [/quote] I'll give them an uncompressed sound as bass is one of the most likely areas they'll compress anyway and I don't want them to do it twice. I get a compressed sound thru valves ....driving the amp hard and the cabs. Very peaky when required.

Check them both out and pick the one that you like the most. If someone invites you in to help..but there may not be a gig at the end of it, I don't tend to put much work into the set unless I know I can use that set list again. There has to be reasonable expectations about how much work is involved.