JTUK

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1452211105' post='2947783'] So what is your own personal formula for your onstage sound? It may be useful for many on here who haven't arrived at it for themselves yet. [/quote] That is a good question and I believe that most players don't help themselves in this regard. Depends what drives their desire for the sound they play with. Mostly I think that limitation is with the player themselves and the technique they use. Even trying another sound is tough technically if you don't sound any good using it. For me... I use shelving amps and predominately 12" with a horn. I make use of mids over bass..and keep bass as low as I can.. This should not be confused with not having a full sound but it is the reason why I never suffer boom and also it shouldn't be honky or nasally The low end is full but not shaking... Ideally I use a 210 on top of a 212 but mostly I go with 2x112 with a horn. Horn half way up and no bass on the active EQ.. At no point will the sound get buried if everyone is sensible, but most gtrs are a bit oblivious to this so I like to use guys that colour their parts as opposed to riff all over everything. This is why I dislike most 3 pieces as the gtr seems to take this as a chance to fill everything with his 'chord' work which is often not very sospisticated and fills too much in verse where he should back off and drops out for solos where the song needs the lift... If people leave sonic space it is easy..get into fights over that space and you end up with a mess... My sound sits around the kit...not fits through it..and keys play a higher register. Gtrs fit over and around those parts..one has the main part and the other has the colour. NO POWER CHORDS And basically if the song doesn't work with just bass and drums and needs the keys and/or gtrs to drive it then you are losing the battle. Beware of chords players who think they should always drive songs. That is to start with... but before that you need to pick the players who can do this..

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1452084762' post='2946191'] I wonder if this is a fact based on evidence, or an opinion based on your personal experiences? [/quote] Yes..sorry, personal experience....as in the guys that we'd call and use, I'd say over 90% and then the 10 % would be pretty musically educated in a non formal sense. my quote" [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Most drummers will be able to write out a part...I can't think of many people I know/play with who don't have some sort of musical [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]education."[/font][/color] If you took a section that played my local music pub... all bets are off, but I don't recall any absolute shockers... I did do a dep gig recently and the guy had very dodgy counting..which wasn't helpful and he wasn't very good but not my call, ... Just wasn't in a hurry to take any more dates

And as for playing a free gig there as a sort of audition..??

One gig or one town blown out..? If that is the sort of person you have to deal with..I'd be quite happy to blow out all his gigs.

[quote name='Fisheth' timestamp='1452159425' post='2947012'] Believe me, I am tempted to buy it! [/quote] You are close enough to check it out

I do agree that I wont play small gigs and be crammed in tiny places with cymbals in my ear but a 5 piece band with keys will take up a lot of space in quiite a few pubs. Staying out of the way of a full range keyboard with mini P.A onstage, or contending with frequency hogging gtrs does mean you can't just settle for any sound. I believe too many bass players pick the wrong sound..or rather have that sound in their head but don't have much idea about why it doesn't work. I can pretty much find that around here every week when out catching bands. And despite the perception here that bass players are the more sound orienated guys in the band, that doesn't tally with my recollection locally.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1452187823' post='2947450'] I'd guess that any cab which only comes up to thigh-height is going to have similar issues with hearing the mids and highs when you're standing right next to it (though perhaps less so with a dedicated mid driver), so it's hardly some unique flaw to this specific cab. There are very few cabs on the market which wouldn't have exactly the same issue. [/quote] I don't agree with this..at all, as it happens. I've long used 2x112's and they sit low as each cab is typically 14" inches.. so none of the pairing's I've used have been over 30" max.. I'm 6"2 so my ears are pretty far away from the top of those cabs. I've never had issues hearing what I play..and I never ever bury my bass in the mix even when there is an 88 keyboard in the band..which invaribly there is on all my gigs. I have all sorts of bits and bobs going on style-wise and I want to hear them. Last comment I had was from a singer...who was out front in the audience and he said "I can hear everything single thing that you play" which is exactly what I set out to do because that is what I want to hear as well. I've not brought any specific cab maker into the equation.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1452185753' post='2947424'] I would politely suggest that your writing style does not make your posts easy to follow, regardless of whether anyone agrees with the content or not. I am picking up that you think the OP has chosen unwisely and that you do not rate their sound (despite having never heard them, I presume), but it's hard to make out exactly what you are trying to say. The cab the OP is talking about is a 2x12", not one with a single driver. Anything short of a fridge sized cab (or perhaps a slim vertical stack) is going to be at less than ear height, but many gigs require something smaller. Could you be a little clearer as to where you consider the OP has gone wrong? [/quote] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"I currently use a Super 12T It's great , but I want something that's going to be higher for nearside monitoring , Alex suggested the Big Twin ll , (two BB2s is a bit to costly for me ) As I only have the tweeter on slightly , I'm wondering if I might be better off with two Gen 3 super compacts , for two reasons , The height will be better & the the speakers are higher in the cab , & my back isn't great these days . I mostly play plectrum style . another question is would the two compacts move more air than a Big twin ll as there are more ports ? "[/font][/color] The OP says he requires the cab to be ear height............ why would you need this? Nearside monitoring? is that to be closer to the ear? The options he considers involve two cabs..for two reasons. The height will be better and the speakers will be higher in the cab I'm 'guessing' this is all pointing to not being able to hear well enough. Weight is always a consideration at some point on these pages and it is here too as the OP may have back issues. He doesn't have the solution he needs so I think he hasn't made the best choice...and/or doesn't use a very condusive sound.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1452168845' post='2947163'] I am still struggling to see/hear your points unless you are a Barefaced Troll. [/quote] If it is too hard for you to understand... It's not a one cab solution if you need a another cab to put on top. I don't subscribe to single 12's anyway (read single chassis cabs)... but if you do, and you can't hear it then you haven't really thought it thru. So you need to raise it off the floor and carry something to facilitate that. That can be another cab .....defeating the object for a one cab solution..or bring a box to put it on... which is going to nullify any desired weight saves. I've not mentioned the maker myself so the point stands generally but the main selling point of those cabs is weight.

Try a palm mute where you want to keep to keep the initial point of attack with the nail.

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1452104285' post='2946483'] I know a few of those too. I know one guy who has been a pro musician since the late 70's and more or less stopped touring full time about 8 years back and he says he is now very selective about what gigs he does because he doesn't see the need to waste his time with people who do not have a professional attitude to what they are doing. [b]I hope I always find a way to enjoy playing music at whatever level I can play competently[/b]. [/quote] I think you have to get very picky about what you play and who you play with...which you can afford to be if you don't 'need' the money. You may have made so much from music you can pick and choose or you have an alternative income. After 30 yrs, schepping up and down the M1 and getting back in the early hours becomes work just like anything else. And you can kill what you used to really love. I gave up for 2 years and I REALLY needed that break. I'm a better player now but I regulate it so much so I don't do my version of 'crap' gigs...as I know it will stop me playing again. I view 'full time' now as the standard of living is poorer and you aren't even in love with it the way you used to be so it is lose-lose. IMO.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1452040140' post='2945897'] Funny stuff, sad but true. It's unbelievable how some guys think they're band ready and they're not even close. Rule of thumb, you want to say very little at auditions and if you don't know the material like the back of your hand, cancel your audition. Always make sure they can hear you and the sound or tone your using is cool with them. They're not always going to comment on volume or tone until it's to late. "Thanks we went with one of the other candidates. We couldn't hear you at the audition" Also if a band can't provide me with files or links to the audition material, I don't audition. I think we as musicians and bands in general struggle with the audition process. Bands aren't necessarily good at screening out candidates (prior to the audition) and players are not good at knowing what they want or the kind of band they're a match for. [/quote] I'm good at putting people together in terms of sound and style. This is where the chemistry can come from.. Random selections based on who applies/turns up seems such a long shot..and a waste of time, tbh. So I don't do that.

Nope, not kidding... the vast majority (drummers) are muscially conversant and know how to compile muscial tracks as per a brief.. Most deps show up with parts written out.

Its a language... you need to be on the same page as the other guys. It might be great that you can play from the unconscious but you have to have a VERY educated ear for that, IMO/IME It's just so much quicker when you can understand what someone is talking about and does indeed help you meet the band on the night and do a good job and justify your money. If you can do all that from perfect pitch, then great, but that is few and far between... so IMO, you need to move away from 'clueless' as much as you can. If however, you aren't in sitiuations where you get exposed then carry on as you like. Most drummers will be able to write out a part...I can't think of many people I know/play with who don't have some sort of musical education. , If you can cope in those situations where the band leaders is throwing keys and charts all over the place it is a gig you have the choice to take.. if can't..you have no choice. '3 down' from the band leader makes your 12 bar swinger interesting especially if by hand signals

Why put it to test, get someone else to store it. A garage is one thing, but I don't like the idea of this shed, tbh.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1452006268' post='2945409'] I'm not sure it isn't a case of the tail wagging the dog. The requests of songs we get asked to play is very depressing. We get a good reaction to tunes that other bands "don't usually play", but we also get a lot of blank looks. If the audience aren't up and dancing and singing there's little point in trying to educate them. They're there to drink and jump up and down. Which is why I suggest getting 6-8 tunes working and gig them and see if the audience are responsive. I've played too many gigs where the band 'don't do the usual stuff' and the audience just stand there tapping their feet and looking blank. [/quote] Currently we are doing Alan Toussaint, Bobby Bland and Meters/Neville type tracks and they work because the singer can work an audience...he is some keyboard player as well but even though the band is pretty (very) capable you have to pick your gigs for this to work. Pretty soon, we'll have to decide if the gig can go to a more ticket orientated gig.... so pubs that have door charges but then you come up against people being used to 'free' bands.... ie, the punter doesn't pay directly for them in the subsidised pub market.

Most entertaining band of recent times was an Italian band doing everything in the style of Johnny Cash. They were so good...but can understand you wouldn't want to see it too often...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1451989467' post='2945193'] Well you've actually just echoed my conclusion (the bit that you didn't quote). [/quote] I always think the audience can be educated by bands...but not enough of them will or are capable of doing it which is why we get the same old stuff. This is my current reoccurring point that pub music/bands don't really help themselves and play too safe. On the flip side of that, they might not have the ability anyway... I don't want to hear the same versions by 10 different bands, myself, ...and after a while most punters will comment on the same thing. If a band plays the same set for 18 months and plays the same town/venues 5-6 times in that period, people will notice...and likely stop going. The easiest thing to do a lot of the times is to mix things up, but bands find this the hardest to do... Compounded by too many bands playing too many venues with the same stuff...

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1451939690' post='2944875'] He just wants the cream. His pursuit of which has meant he's missed out on some lovely cheeses. I mean a band that might want to use him are going to have to turn down £100 a night gigs unless they are prepared to pay him more than themselves. [/quote] If he is that good, that happens. This is why bands aren't equal...IMO. Nice idea but not really practical. Any decent guy will likely know their worth and if they know they are the diference will be telling you what they go out for. It just depends how much of a potential arse you are prepared to put up with... but then they could be the difference between £750 a gig and £1250 or whatever so it costs you more per head to 'tolerate' but you end up grossing more. So, in principle, I'd consider paying it ..if the gig could afford it... etc etc ..

Had one guy for nearly two years. Just astonishing.... best musician around..by some way, IMO> He has all the chops, all the feel, musical and the whole audience just gets him. Of course he overplays as that is what is expected of him at times and he plays up to it but then I also know what level he has played at and technically he probably still has it so he really can do it all. Great great fun when on fire and he is the drummer I always wanted to find..

Sexy... I'd keep all the changes reversable if I were you.

Hmmm first line I read seems to be a concession that suggests the NEO cab sacrificed tone. ??

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1451893859' post='2944267'] That's a really helpful post Would you care to elaborate? [/quote] Ok, to start with The cab can't produce sounds you can hear so you need to elevate it...which is kind of at odds for a light load. Or you carry another cab to do the same job..again, defeating the object or putting it on a flight case, makiing the whole deal heavier and/or a double carry/load. And that is without dealing with the sound

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1451937336' post='2944831'] There's a guy round here (singer) who said that hes not prepared to perform for less than £150 a night, says its not worth his while. Gets about 5 gigs a year. [/quote] I'd say he isn't working it very hard then..so presumably 5 a year suits him. It also depends whether he is 'worth' his £150 too.

There is no way a gig would be viable for me if it didn't pay and people didn't turn up. So as long as it does that, it is ok with me...as long as I like what we are doing. Otherwise I may as well just do function work. Facebook and the like makes these things so much easier... but then it is easier for everyone. I stick by my assertion that there are too many cheap gigs as options which waters down the product/standard or whatever, and also the potential audience. In short it cheapens music in so many senses.