Major-Minor

The argument about "what jazz is" could be very long and painful, so we will leave it, as you say, for another time. However, my reason for suggesting that Fourplay is a good place to start is quite simply because of their easy accessibility to someone who might be used to hearing more rock/ pop styles. All the players in Bob James' outfit are great improvising soloists, but in this band the arrangements and compositions take precedence over long improvised solos. They rarely use swing or bebop styling but the harmonic structures owe a lot to the jazz/blues cannon and the solos are short, neat and well played. For anybody new to the world of jazz, I'm a firm believer in edging them in gently, in the same way that I wouldn't suggest somebody new to orchestral music should start with Messian's Turangalila (much as I love this piece). If somebody doesn't "get it", then they need help from those that do. Like any appreciation of the arts, it takes time. The Major

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='598602' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:49 PM']I've been trying to give Jazz a fair crack and I've accumulated quite a few recommendations off this site. I just don't get it. Most just sounds like some guy on a - insert instrument here - arpeggiating some dead hard chords at a fearsome speed. It's the same reason I don't enjoy listening to the likes of Wooten. I understand it's difficult but I don't want it on my car stereo thanks. It brings me back to my original question. I think when a chord substitution is so far removed from the original like this it just sounds to the uninitiated (e.g. me) like the band is playing two entirely different progressions. It's not musical. Not to me anyway. Sorry [/quote] Actually John Coltrane is not the best place to start if you are trying to understand the wonderful world of jazz and improvisation ! I've been playing jazz all my life and I still struggle with Coltrane. Have a listen to some of the more crossover styles. I'd start with Bob James' Fourplay which includes the wonderful bass playing of Nathan East (who is coming to Bass Day 2009 in November at the RNCM). Or try Chick Corea (Return to Forever, the Acoustic Band, The Electric Band) or Pat Metheny or the Yellowjackets. There's loads more - these are just the first names that spring to mind. Also don't forget that the recording quality on some of those early bebop sessions was rather poor. Our modern ears are used to something with more clarity and bandwidth. Keep trying - its well worth it in the long run. The Major

[quote name='pete.young' post='591750' date='Sep 6 2009, 10:28 PM']Perfectly valid piece of technique on upright bass. I've heard it called 're-inforcing'.[/quote] Yes but only on long held pedal notes ! (usually 2nd finger re-enforcing 1st). To be avoided in general on both DB and BG. The Major

[quote name='XB26354' post='596744' date='Sep 12 2009, 06:41 PM']Hi, These are "Coltrane Changes" - something that John Coltrane popularised with Giant Steps. The two progressions should be as follows: Original Fm7 / / / |Bb7 / / / |EbMaj7 / / / | Coltrane changes Bmaj7 / D7 / |Gmaj7 / Bb7 / | EbMaj7 / / / | Note that both sequeces are three bars and end V7-Imaj7. The idea is that one goes "outside" the regular changes in order to create more tension before resolving to the I chord (in this case, EbMaj7). Coltrane changes are characterised by moving key centres down in major thirds. Bar 1 starts Bmaj7, bar2 goes down a major third to Gmaj7, bar three down another major third to Ebmaj7 You can start this idea off like this: 1. Original - Fm7 / / / |Bb7 / / / |Ebmaj7 / / / | 2. Original replacing Im7 with I7 (secondary dominant) - F7 / / / |Bb7 / / / |Ebmaj7 / / / | 3. Use a tritone substitution on the F7 to get B7 - B7 / / / |Bb7 / / / |Ebmaj7 / / / | 4. Obtain the major third movement by adding Gmaj7 at the beginning of the second bar, and put the relevant V7 chord D7 just before it to create sound root-movement - B7 / D7 / |Gmaj7 / Bb7 / |Ebmaj7 / / / | 5. Finally change B7 to Bmaj7 so that the first chord in each bar implies a Imaj7 in keys descending in major thirds - Bmaj7 / D7 / |Gmaj7 / Bb7 / |Ebmaj7 / / / | If you then improvise over 5. whilst chordal players play 1. you have an introduction to playing outside the changes. As long as the ideas mean something to the progression in 5., then your improvising will sound sophisticated over 1. The general advice is play something inside (i.e. diatonic to 1.), then go outside by improvising as if the chords were 5., then come back inside to the original sequence. There's lot more about this kind of sequence in print - notably Mark Levine's Jazz Theory Book, which devotes an entire chapter to it. Hope this helps Cheers Mat[/quote] Beautifully put Sir ! The Major

[quote name='leftybassman392' post='594772' date='Sep 10 2009, 02:39 PM']It's now Thursday, and I haven't yet had anyone complain about anything. May I assume that everybody concerned is:- a. finding; b. understanding what I'm posting to the sticky? (If anyone's finding it overly easy at this stage, don't worry - it's gonna get harder soon enough There will be some Maths to do in a couple of weeks )[/quote] Hi Andy Yes I'm finding, and mostly understanding ! (But it makes my brain hurt a little !) I've performed many contemporary (classical) pieces that require quarter tone interval playing and its always hard for us modern musicians not to just think of it as being out of tune. However, having also worked with Indian Carnatic musos, I know just how effective it can be in the right setting. One question: how do the words " chromatic and enharmonic " end up describing these genus ? Diatonic I can understand, but not these first 2. Maybe I just don't really understand their original meaning. Keep up the great work Andy ! The Major

The only things that should matter when making an instrument purchase are: 1. Whether the bass makes the kind of sound (or range of sounds) that you like and are comfortable with, and 2. Whether the bass feels good under the fingers and is physically good to play. The cost is almost irrelevant (!). If you have the funds available for the instrument that best suits your needs, then this is the bass to purchase. Lets face it, electric instruments today are incredibly cheap. The most expensive I've seen are still only 3 to 4 K. In the wider world of music, this is negligible for something that is the tool of your trade (and its tax de-dodge-able anyway !) My double basses are worth 25 K plus (each) and thats still chicken feed compared to some that I've played. My current weapon of choice is a Yamaha TRB1005 which was incredibly cheap (£550) and I like it a lot. But I know that there are other instruments that I will like even more. I recently tried a Lakland 5 string (£900 second hand) and an Overwater 5 string (£1000 second hand), both of which I felt were an improvement on the Yamaha, although i didn't like the Lakland's 22 frets - I'm used to 24 on the Yamaha - and the Overwater had no position dots on the fingerboard - again something I'm used to. But I never make impulse buys. I always make several visits to an instrument before convincing myself that its the one for me. This is because I made a rushed decision some years ago to buy a Status 5 string (£1200) only to find it really wasn't "me ". You can only play on one instrument at a time, and it helps to really know that bass thoroughly. I really don't see the point in having lots of basses that you hardly ever play - unless you are just a collector for collecting's sake. The Major

[quote name='JPS' post='587574' date='Sep 2 2009, 03:21 PM']I'm trying to learn Bye Bye Blackbird, the Miles Davis version. I'm happy with most of it, however, I'm a bit confused by the first four chords in section B. My real book lists them as: Am7b5/E9/Eb9/D7(b9) When I try to play along using these chords as the basis it just sounds awkward/wrong. I was wondering therefore, if anyone has a better/different idea what the actual chords on the Miles Davis version are? Thanks JPS. P.S It could just be my rubbish playing in fairness![/quote] Actually you have slightly miss-interpreted the chart. I have the Chuck Sher version in front of me. And section B gives 2 alternative sequences: 1. F9 /// | E9 /// | Eb9 /// | D7b9 /// (This one has the 1st 3 chords in brackets) 2. Am7b5 /// | //// | //// | D7b9 /// Neither of these sequences work particularly well with the tune but are OK for soloing over. The Major

[quote name='bassace' post='587551' date='Sep 2 2009, 02:59 PM']Major, yes I'm sure you can 'gig' a bass. I use the verb quite regularly. Interested to hear you views on the respective strings. I swore when I started on bass many moons ago that I was not going to get caught up on the strings issue and just go ahead and enjoy playing the thing. I've still managed to keep going on the trusty Spiro Mittels. I've just come back from the Bude Jazz Festival and it's amazing how many bass players are quite conservative in their choice of Spiros and Underwood pickups - like me - although the old GK150MBS is less ubiquitous than before. I have two interesting 'neighbours'. In the next village they make Headway amps and pickups. The guys in the States seem to be raving about the new Headway preamp as a great improvement on the Fishman Pro Plat, so I'm going to see if I can get one to try. More interestingly 18 miles away lives Thomas Martin, ace bass player and luthier. I visited him a few weeks ago and he is a charming man. He gave me a tour of his workshop and showed me all the wood he has is store for twenty years of basses. So I just had to have one and have been playing it for three weeks now. It is slightly smaller than my others and lighter. But what a sound! I am now 'gigging' it a lot and enjoying it very much. In addition to the Thomas Martin label inside, there is another one that reads ' comissioned by Roger Davis, July 2009' - isn't that nice! I hope to get some pics up on the forum very soon. Enjoy your trip to Italy.[/quote] Bassace - I have got to know Tom Martin fairly well over the last year - he has played Guest Principal with the BBC orch I play with on several occasions (he is coming again when we get back from Italy) and you are right - he is a charming fellow. He heard me practicing my bass guitar one lunchtime and said "Hey you are a great bass guitar player !" (certainly not true - but it made my day !). He has been known to play a bit of BG himself in his younger days. He is a truly astonishing DB player - his solo CDs display a remarkable technique and his intonation is superb. I keep meaning to have a go on his bass (he always offers it to anybody to try) and I will definitely make the effort to do so next week. If only I could afford to buy one ....... The Major

Well finally, after 8 weeks of frustrated waiting, I now have my "jazz" DB back from the repairer (Paul Ayers, Didsbury, Manchester). You may remember that the machine string winder for the D string finally wore out when putting on the new Evah Piazzi weich. I have had to have a whole new set of winders - and because the peg box on this bass is rather large, the standard winders that Paul first ordered from Germany were simply too small. He tried 2 different sets before realising that the only way forward was to have them custom made in the UK. Well they look the biz now ! Mind you the whole exercise has cost me well over £1000 !! So now I have the full set of EP Weichs on this bass. First impressions: Easy under the bow. Nice warm sound, quite dark if a little grainy. Two small caveats: The G on the D string is now a wolf note. The Ab is also a little wolfish. I might have to invest in a wolf-chaser. Also I notice that in the higher thumb positions on the G string, I'm not getting the singing quality I had with the Thomastic Spiro G. Maybe it will loosen up with playing. For pizz playing, I'm relieved that the growl I like for jazz is still evident, if slightly darker than with the Spiros. The strings feel fatter under the fingers and I guess I will have to work harder on them in a gig situation. I suspect I might find them more tiring .... but time will tell. I'm off on an orchestral tour tomorrow (to Italy - lucky me !) so won't be able to gig this bass for a few weeks yet. (Can you "gig" a bass ? or have I just made that up !). Anyway, I'm just so glad to have the bass back - I can't put it down ...... The Major

Andy (leftybassman) is absolutely right. Trying to teach yourself to read music can be a very lonely and frustrating business. And its so easy to get into bad habits - you might think you are right in your interpretation of the written note, but it is likely you will be getting it completely wrong. You need somebody to guide and correct you. For hundreds (if not thousands) of years, music has thrived through the teacher/pupil relationship. Indeed in many areas of "world music" this is the only way forward for budding musicians. Just knowing that you have to perform to your teacher the pieces/studies/exercises that have been set, will make you practice with greater concentration and application than if you try to be your own taskmaster. So get a teacher ! The Major

Some years ago I had Tennis Elbow in my left arm. As a pro player this was a real pain (sorry!). I had to have a month off playing and loads of physio and exercises. Even after this time off, I still had problems and just played through the pain. I developed back shoulder and neck pains as well, all on my left side. After about 6 months of massage sessions (no sniggering please) the pain in my arm subsided ( I still get the other pains when playing for long periods). In March this year, I started getting Tennis Elbow in my right arm. I've been playing through the pain ever since. If I do some warm up exercises this definitely helps and very often by the end of a concert or gig, I hardly notice the pain. But I am woken up the next day by the pain in my right arm. Does anybody have similar experiences ? Do you think playing through the pain is a bad idea ? Should I retire now ?!! (I'm 58 now and have been playing professionally for over 40 years). I feel I'm at the top of my game at the moment - I still really love playing and manage to ignore these pains for most of the time. It hasn't affected my desire to do the job to the best of my ability. I try to watch my posture and do all the right things - stretches before work, shortish practice sessions, lots of walking etc etc Any feedback would be most welcome. The Major

[quote name='tauzero' post='583558' date='Aug 28 2009, 02:05 PM']Isn't "almost never" the same as "sparingly"? The band I would make most use of the sub-bottom-E range is the ceilidh band, for which I use the 4-string fretless (hence no extended bottom) and an electric upright bass, which until very recently was a 4-string. I've now got a 5-string Ergo upright and I'm going to try to get into the habit of playing from bottom D rather than from D on the A string when we're playing stuff in D (melodeon dictates that we play everything in G, D, Em or Am, and don't ask me why we play in Am but not C and D but not Bm).[/quote] I'm sure we could discuss the semantics of "almost never" and "sparingly' ad naseum but I guess we would send everybody to sleep ! I too occasionally play with a Ceilidh band and, yes, the keys are always restricted to D G Em and Am. I suspect its to do with the fiddle, who in traditional music likes to be able to play lots of open D and A strings. I always try to use my DB for these gigs as the guys prefer the stronger pulse I can get with this instrument. Also it looks a bit more traditional. Is this Ergo you mention a DB or an EUB ? I'd love to get a 5 string EUB if and when I have the dosh. The Major

[quote name='tauzero' post='583355' date='Aug 28 2009, 11:06 AM']That's not the only reason at all. It also enables you to play more across the neck, reducing hand shifts. I almost never play below bottom E and could quite happily manage without playing below it at all, but I prefer my 5-string to my 4-string. I play 4-string fretless because I haven't yet got a 5-string fretless that can match the 4-string for playability.[/quote] Yes of course - you are absolutely right. I suppose I was just pointing out the bleeding obvious - that from the listeners point of view, a 5 string gives more bottom range. I'm intrigued to know why you "almost never play below bottom E". Used sparingly and musically, those low notes can be very effective, especially when one double stops with the octave above. I recently tried a second hand Lakland 5 string (a Darryl Jones model I believe) which gave the sweetest bottom notes I have ever heard plus amazing sustain. If only I had the £900 asking price.... The Major

I've just remembered a good bass bow story I heard recently: A well known Principal bass in a UK orch had a bow made at great expense with a diamond set into the end of the winder. Apparently he wafted his bow around in the orchestra to ensure that everybody was aware of his new aquisition. The rest of the bass section were somewhat amused by this vanity and procured some glass "jewels" from the local Hobby Shop and stuck them on their bows and wafted them around so everybody could see them. All very childish ! But then we bass players often are ...... The Major

The only reason for playing on a (standard) 5 string BG is to extend your range lower. If you have no use for those lower notes, stick to a 4 string. However, if you ever foresee a time when you might get to do some TV sessions / commercial recording sessions / or theatre/concert work, then you will definitely need to have a 5string in your arsenal. If the producer or arranger asks for a bottom C and you can't produce it ..... well you won't be getting that gig again ! The Major

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='582287' date='Aug 27 2009, 11:22 AM']I don't usually post here, but that suprises me, why is that?[/quote] Good question ! After all its only a stick of wood with some horse hair strung across it. But as with everything, its down to the quality of the materials, quality of the workmanship and also in some cases antique value. A really good bow needs just the right balance for off the string playing, but also the right weight to get the best and most controlled sound. A really old bow from the 18th or 19th century like a Tourte for instance will fetch a big price just because of the name and age. But a bow like this will probably (but not necessarily) be made by the finest craftsmen of the day and have that something special in the hands of a good player. I only have one expensive bow. I paid £1000 for it a few years ago. Its nice but I still prefer my £150 Paesold. The Major

Sounds to me like you have yet to grasp the basic concepts of music making ! But thats OK - we all had to start somewhere. I would suggest you have a look at rslaing's excellent "Weekly Theory Lesson" series at the top of this forum. There is a lot to take in - you will need to take it slowly - try to understand each section fully before moving on - but you will slowly begin to piece it all together and then you can truly start to create your own music. As in any art form, once you know how your predecessors did it, or the theory behind it, you can move on and add your own slant to your chosen genre. The Major

This is a difficult one to answer because bows, both German and French, come in a variety of lengths and weights and really the only way forward is to try lots of different ones till you find one that suits. Having said that, if you have not yet developed the technique required for good bowing, its almost impossible for you to judge ! I would suggest finding a good pro symphony player and have a one off lesson from him/her just on this bowing question. Personally, I use French bows and have several, all on the heavier side, my favourite being a Paesold that I paid about £150 for several years ago. You can pay many thousands for bows (and I've tried many horribly expensive ones) but in the end you need to get something that suits you. As far as "grip" is concerned, it really is a question of practice and developing the muscles in the right hand. I've recently made a small adjustment to my grip having watched closely how Tom Martin plays. He came as guest Principal recently to the BBC orch I play with. This has made a big difference to my sound, but at first I was getting spasms in my thumb which have now receded with practice. Incidentally its well worth looking at Tom Martin's website. Apart from being one of the best players in the world, he also has a company that makes basses. thomasmartin.co.uk The Major

Nobody seems to have mentioned the removable wheel - ie a wheel which is attached to a replacement endpin. I recently got one of these and its great for wheeling the bass longish distances, say to the car park down the road. It only takes a second to change the endpin and stash it in the case. I know several players who swear by these things. It takes all the strain off your back. However you still need to lift the bass slightly when going over kerbs etc. And I did hear a story of a London bass player who smashed his bass up when rushing to catch a tube train - care needs to be taken when you have the wheel attached as it can slide away from you. The Major

[quote name='bassace' post='580502' date='Aug 25 2009, 06:05 PM']Fair enough. When we started playing long ago we got a gig playing support to a mega band (in those days). We were still at school and chuffed to bits and looking forward very much. Three days to go and the MU put the block on us....................rather, put the block on the headlining band playing with us. We went and drew out all our savings to join the Union and still do the gig. So I haven't been a great fan of the MU since but have to join mainly because of the PL and most of the musos I work with are members.[/quote] I agree with bassace on this one. The MU Public Liability Insurance is worth the subs alone. I've been a member since I was 16 (42 years ago!) because in those days it was a closed shop and you had to be in it if you wanted to work with other pros. But I'm not a union-minded person tho', quite the opposite in fact, but I take an interest in what the union is up to - I read all the mags and leaflets they send - and although I take an opposing view on most of their political stances, I do believe that musos need a representative body especially in these difficult economic times. And I think I'm right in saying that if you have only a small income from music, the subs are negligible. The Major

I also practice mostly unplugged. And then when I plug in on a gig, its such a joy to hear that lovely fat round sound that I enjoy playing even more than ever, and I'm sure that pure joy comes out in my performance ! (well that's what I like to think anyway ..... ) The Major

Hi James I really think that detuning a DB on a gig is not a great idea. If you really want to use notes lower than E on a regular basis, there are several options: Get a 5 string DB. They are not very common in the jazz/folk/roots world but I often see them in the symphony world, indeed my desk partner of 25 years has been playing a 5 string he had made by bass maker Mike Hart some 20 years ago. I used one myself for several months when my main orch bass was being repaired. They can be hard work at first but you get used to the extra large fingerboard with a bit of practise. Get an extension put on your 4 string. My Orch bass has had one for 35 years now - its the mechanical variety with 4 fingered keys. Can be a bit clanky in fast or quiet passages (Stravinsky's Firebird Suite intro comes to mind !). But mostly it does the job. Or you can get extensions without the mechanical bit ie you finger the notes as required, or you can have artificial "fingers" to lock off the pedal note you want. Of course all these ideas cost money, but its worth the investment if you want to extend your range. Alternatively, as has already been stated, just play up the octave ! The Major

Hi Sam - I have spent most of my 40 year bass career using the anchored thumb method (either on the back pickup or the E string) but have recently changed to the floating thumb method. This is so much better for muting the strings you are not playing on (I currently play mostly on my 5 string which is why I changed to this method). I would highly recommend this style. The Major

My personal favourites are Eddie Gomez, John Pattitucci, Stanley Clarke and Niels Henning Osted Perderson The Major

[quote name='beerdragon' post='551099' date='Jul 25 2009, 01:52 PM']I think the backing on that album was done by the Wally Stott orchestra. so it will probably remain a mystery. Wally Stott had a sex change and became Angela Morley and lives in the States. and now, back to our main programme! [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0V_LFf63M8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0V_LFf63M8[/url][/quote] Angela Morley (Wally Stott) died earlier this year age 84. The Major