Major-Minor

[quote name='Spoombung' post='531595' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:32 PM']What I find very strange among Jazzers is that they are often are utterly oblivious to a gigantic, embarrassing hole opening up when the bass solo starts. I can't help thinking that's because they don't actually communicate with each very well - they rarely sit down and discuss each others likes and dislikes - they try and rely on some sort of romantic idea of musical telepathy instead - hence so much of it sounds characterless or 'trad'. No one wants to tell their colleague they have body odour.[/quote] Personally, I try to show respect to all other musicians from every genre, even if there style is not my preference. And if I do criticize something, or someone, I make sure I fully understand the background to their genre before doing so and I check all my facts first, and refrain from generalizations that are likely to inflame people who are passionate about their art. The Major

[quote name='Lownote-LA' post='532346' date='Jul 4 2009, 11:36 AM']I would recommend that you give them a try. Even if they turn out not to be just right for your instrument, the demand for these strings used is quite high and you would be able to get a lot of your money back if you sold them. Cheers, Erik Hansen Scotland[/quote] Hi Erik Thanks for this most comprehensive string critique. As you may have seen in my earlier post, I have actually purchased an Evah Pirazzi "soft" set, but am now having to have new tuners fitted to my "jazz" bass, the old ones being too knackered to take the extra pressure from the EPs. Can't wait to get it back and get going on these strings. I was thinking that, if I like them (and I'm convinced I will), I might get a set of medium EPs for my orchestral bass. Do you think that would be a good move ? The Major

[quote name='endorka' post='532538' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:33 PM']And you were right! It was a joy to play - the reed guy stayed on clarinet throughout the gig, the drummer playing only snare & hihat with brushes, and the balance of sound was perfect. One of the most enjoyable gigs I've played, great musicians, great sound, great music, appreciative audience. And they fed us too :-) Jennifer[/quote] Ah..... food on gigs ! That should make a good thread !! The Major

I tried a second hand Overwater 5 string in Music Ground (M/c) a few months ago. Fell in love with it but didn't have the ready cash. Went in last week and of course it had been sold - kicking myself now. Will have to save up for a brand new one. Actually i want 2 - one fretted and one fretless (5 stringers of course). The Major

[quote name='geoffbassist' post='531967' date='Jul 3 2009, 08:09 PM']thanks for the tip off! i will soon be visiting string zone ;-) you are welcome to borrow mine if im not giging, if it falls on a night i have a bass guitar gig in then there would be no probs at all...[/quote] Many thanks Geoff - you are a star ! Hopefully I will have the bass back by then, but if not I'll be in touch. The Major

[quote name='rslaing' post='531350' date='Jul 3 2009, 07:45 AM']It doesn't matter which range you are playing in. The interval from a note of a second or a ninth has the same "name", but a second is a tone above and a ninth is an octave and a tone above - an octave apart. For example, if the chord is C major, and you play note D, it can be a second or a ninth. If you are talking about chords, and the chord is C major7, the chordal notes would be C E G B. If you expanded that chord to Cmaj9, then you would add the D. That note D would be a ninth above the root C of the chord. If you want to make reference to the note D in relation to the note C, and that note D is a tone above C, then you would describe it as the interval of a second. Intervals within the octave are called simple intervals, and if the intervals are over an octave apart, they are called compound intervals. [url="http://www.aboutmusictheory.com/music-intervals.html"]Here is a reference page on intervals.[/url][/quote] Can I just add to this that you can have a chord with an ADDED 2ND ie C D E G. If there is no major (or dominant ) 7th, this would be described as C2 (usually written with a small "2" ) or sometimes Cadd2 or C add D. This is a lovely chord - very settled and calming - a good "final" chord. And if you add the 6th to this (C D E G A) it is called a C 6/9. Again a great chord to finish on (very common in the swing era). It's worth hammering home again the fact that a 9th (for instance) can be a [u]chord[/u] name (Cmajor9) or an [u]interval[/u] (a major 9th). Spot the difference ? If a note name is mentioned (C in this case) it is a CHORD. If no note name is there, it is an INTERVAL. Rob has said this already: A chord is 3 or more notes. An interval is the distance between 2 notes. So when you mention a 9th, you need to be clear which it is - a chord or an interval. The Major

[quote name='wulf' post='531807' date='Jul 3 2009, 04:17 PM']I've left that group behind anyway by moving from London to Oxford. I've got some new things going on here but nothing quite in the straight foward "real book" jazz line just yet. Wulf[/quote] Hi Wulf I think the term you meant was "straight [u]ahead[/u]" jazz. It's a strange phrase I know, but most jazzers know what is meant by it. Sorry if I sound like a berating schoolteacher - not that there is anything wrong with being a schoolteacher ! I'm fast realising that you have to be very careful what you say around here !! The Major

So very sad to hear of someone in the prime of life taken from us all. My condolences to his wife and family.

[quote name='geoffbassist' post='531301' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:06 AM']sorry to hear about the tuners...hassle.... where did you get the Evah weichs from? im on the hunt! cheers geoff[/quote] Hi Geoff Got them from: www.thestringzone.co.uk £145.24 (inc p+p) As my (jazz) bass may be out of action for a few weeks, I might be looking for some kind person in Manchester (or nearby) to lend me one !! My orch bass is just not suitable for jazz gigs. I can resort to BG for most gigs but I have one gig in 4 weeks that is definitely not a BG gig. The Major

[quote name='Soulfinger' post='531536' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:41 AM']I think the key word here is musicianship. When the rest of the band view bass solos as a welcome excuse to take a nap there´s not much you can do about it. In my former life as a drummer, I always found a way to support the soloist, no matter what instrument they were playing. For playing behind a bass solo you just have so play softly without losing the groove but that seems to be a lost art these days. Drummers really need to learn to play with brushes FFS! I had the reputation of being the quietest drummer in town and that got me lots of jobs. The bass players loved me. [/quote] Well you [u]can[/u] do something about it - that's my whole point with this thread. As bass players we need to be more pro-active and tell our fellow musos what we expect from them. Don't let them take a nap ! Be more demanding! I know its hard for us because we bass players are naturally more withdrawn than most people, modest, easy going, more like wall-flowers, wouldn't say boo to a goose (I'm just trying to wind you all up !!). Soulfinger - if you were the quietest drummer in town, I wish you had been in MY town ! The Major

[quote name='wulf' post='531421' date='Jul 3 2009, 09:52 AM']The two things I find trickiest when it comes to the bass solo are: a) I've been concentrating on holding together the foundation of the song. Switching to something more melodic can be tricky. With the group I've played with most, the tendency is for everyone else to drop out, so I'm left exposed, trying to maintain a foundation, soar lyrically and remember where I am in the form! Quite often I end up playing something similar to what I would normally do at the start of each phrase but letting myself stretch out at the end. It's not as unfettered as I would like but manages to keep things together. Of course, the inevitable truth is that the whole process is much easier on songs that you know inside out and have spent time practising solos both with and without accompaniment. As you build up a vocabulary that way, it becomes easier to adapt that on the fly to less familiar songs. Other instrumentalists probably find soloing easier simply because they spend much more time doing it. Wulf[/quote] I suppose one of the reasons I started this thread is to encourage jazz bass players to DEMAND from their band, a good sensitive accompaniment to their solos. From some of the replies we've had, its clear that many people believe that bass solos can be an embarrassment. Obviously it depends on who is playing bass - but with the right type of help from your fellow musos, even an average bass player can be made to sound good. Wulf - maybe with your regular band you need to rehearse some ideas for bass accompaniment - just a few do's and dont's that you can suggest to the guys. Maybe something subtle and spacy from the guitar - just pointing to the sequence. A light hihat tick to keep it all together. Piano chords at the cadence points. A build towards the finish. As I've said before - "The Bass is as entitled to a decent accompaniment as all the other players". The Major

[quote name='jakesbass' post='531073' date='Jul 2 2009, 08:55 PM']All the hotels, country houses etc and the various Jazz venues that have existed over the years the Manchester jazz festival and the more concert type gigs in places like the RNCM and Band on the Wall I played a lot with Les Chisnall, Dave Edge, Roy Powell, Mike Walker Iain Dixon Andy Schofield, Andy Scott Richard Wetherall, Steve Brown John Ellis, Steve Gilbert, Dave Hassall, Vinnie Parker, Les Bolger, Andy Pryor.... the list goes on and on. I did quite a few of the rhythm section and visiting soloist gigs. For 10 yrs I have worked with a musical comedy act called the Casablanca Steps which in the last five years has had London management and works in London, the south east and abroad a lot so I moved to just outside London in '05 to be closer to work and airports, and as is the way of things have ended up doing quite a bit of freelancing work down here eg a fortnight ago I did 2 days in Germany with the virtuoso violinist David Garrett which was depping for a very fine bass player called Tom Mason. I'm guessing you play with the beeb or Halle (I know Maurice Stemp and Bill Kerr quite well as I used to be on the MU committee when it was in Canal St) Nice to meet you properly Major. Jake[/quote] What a small world it is Jake ! I know all these guys (except Dave Edge). And I did a dep with Casablanca Steps in the 80's. I was in a band with the wonderful Steve Gilbert from 1970-72 - we were very green then. 3 nights a week in a Mecca tho' taught us a lot. Then a summer season in Blackpool, US bases in Germany and then i moved on to a 5 nights a week Mecca in Leeds before getting my job at the Beeb. Did you know Steve had to stop playing several years ago due to RSI ? I have heard he is just now getting back into a bit of playing. I met Vinnie Parker when I was 18 playing my first gigs on BG. And I played with him just a few weeks ago - what a great yet modest pianist he is - one of our insung heroes in my book ! I occasionally depped with Tony Christie when Vinnie was his regular keys man. Haven't seen Les Bolger for many a year - is he still around ? Last I heard of him he was teaching in L'pool. Nice to converse with you too Jake. The Major

[quote name='endorka' post='531076' date='Jul 2 2009, 09:03 PM']Depending on the situation, I'll go unamplified on double bass whenever I get the chance. It's ideal for playing jazz as background music or in a restaurant, for example, where setting the volumes of all instruments to the unamplified double bass will more or less guarantee that you won't be too loud for people to converse with each other. Playing the double bass acoustically has a set of charms all of its own, but you are right, it is incredibly easy for almost any other instrument to trash your solo if they are inexperienced. Jennifer[/quote] One little band I play with is a sort of gypsy jazz outfit - violin / accordion / guitar / bass. Hot Club mixed with Eastern European mainly - plus light classics / latin american etc Although we do sometimes play amplified, its mostly acoustic at dinners / receptions etc and the occasional formal concert. Jennifer, you are right. There is something rather special about playing acoustically, and I think the bass especially comes into its own in this situation - after all it IS an acoustic instrument historically. You can get such a rich warm sound without an amp. Don't get me wrong - I also love playing with an amp. But acoustically, in the right situation, there is nothing better ! Some years ago I was involved with a well known classical guitar virtuoso featuring a wonderful piece by (frenchman) Claude Bolling - his Concerto for Classical Guitar and Jazz Trio. For the first few performances, we amplified guitar, bass and piano. It was OK, but I felt the guitar especially suffered from this. I suggested we try performing without amps. The other guys were unsure - it's quite a delicate piece in places, and they were worried about getting the balance right. However, I persisted and eventually persuaded them to try it. What a difference ! Without amps it meant the drummer had to play very delicately in places so overall the dynamic range was greater. When you don't rely on amps you tend to play the loud bits louder and the quiet bits quieter, thus using all your skills to produce a better sound and better balance. The Major

[quote name='Spoombung' post='530864' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:56 PM']You may be right. My experience of Jazz is largely limited to Thursday Jazz Nite at the [i]The Lord Hood[/i] in Greenwich - which tends to feature swing-Jazz musicians who can play in their sleep (and audiences who can listen in their sleep). I know some of them. They're a terrific bunch but they never ever discuss [i]how[/i] they're gonna play the music - only [i]what[/i] they're gonna play. It always stays the same. But weirdly, that seems to be the whole point for them. It's the culture of [i]standards[/i] - a sought of false modesty and anonymity that always leaves me disappointed. And the (double) bass solos are the most anonymous, the most modest, the most exposed and the most out of tune.[/quote] Music at grass roots level is so very important- its where most players get their first encounter with the real thing - so it's very important for all musos to support these things if they possibly can. But what we aspire to should be on a much higher level. Seek out the very best in any genre and you will be inspired to take your own playing to its highest limits. I occasionally dep with a band much like the one you describe. Its always the same standards, always a little on the rough side but I always enjoy it for what it is. But I'm glad I don't do all their gigs ! The Major

[quote name='Spoombung' post='530826' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:16 PM']I always enjoy that incredibly flat, anti-climatic moment when you're watching a jazz band and there's a few looks between band members and the bass solo starts. Everything just grinds to a halt. The drummer looks embarrassed and just stops to make way for a gloriously out- of- tune walking bass line... which is nearly always what the bass player was playing under the song, anyway.[/quote] Spoombung - I think you have been watching and listening to the wrong quality of jazz bands ! Try to get hold of a DVD of Chick Corea's Acoustic Band with John Patatucci and Dave Wekl - then you will know what I'm talking about. Or Oscar Peterson with the late great Neils Henning Osted-Pederson on bass. Or go to any gig where Chris Lawrence is playing bass. The Major

[quote name='marvin spangles' post='530530' date='Jul 2 2009, 12:57 PM']hi Sorry to hear about your tuner\string disaster. Hope things turn out ok for you. I am surprised as I thought that spiros were a higher tension than evahs but i could be wrong. Anyway here's my experience with the strings you mentioned. I have used evahs and yes a great string They are quite loud on my bass... dark sounding and a little shorter sustain. I prefer Belcantos for bowing though there's not much in it. And different strings react to different basses . I used to swap belcantos to spiro mittels depending on the gig. It was getting a bit much so as a compromise I now have a Spiro E and belcantos on the others. The spiro E bows fine and as you know it has a great pizz sound. Dominants are a possibility too. They feel a little stiffer under the left hand but they have a good front end attack and a nice sustain. They are a little more difficult to bow than the evahs but not terribly so. Good luck[/quote] My impression was that the Evah G that I successfully put on the bass (before my disaster with the D) was thicker and more sturdy than the Spiro G (Weich). The Major

[quote name='Rich' post='530782' date='Jul 2 2009, 04:32 PM']I saw a jazz band in a pub in Bristol a couple of years back, bass player had a nice old Jazz and some fairly serious chops, and god did he know it. He overplayed terribly to the extent that, not content with a solo of his own, he virtually soloed during the other players' solos too. As a result it was a dog's dinner. Someone really needed to have a word.[/quote] Actually Rich you have hit the nail on the head there - it's all about musicality. Most of the time, in a jazz context, there is only one soloist, the rest are there to support him/her and that takes a good understanding of what is required to make the best and most creative music. This is really what I have been driving at with this post - getting players to listen to each other and to react to what they play so the whole thing makes musical sense. One thing which is missing so much in "average" performances is DYNAMICS, and this should be as much a part of the improvisational process as the sequence and the groove. It shouldn't be the same everytime of course, but a good option is for each new soloist to start quietly, letting the soloist build his/her ideas. The rhythm section should be quite happy to halve the feel or even play 1 in a bar. Or change the groove entirely, say from a swing to a latin or reggae or to something completely off the wall. For me the worst scenario is where a number is the same throughout - same tempo / same dynamic / same groove - its just boring ! The Major

[quote name='jakesbass' post='530744' date='Jul 2 2009, 03:47 PM']I will not play a note (but keep the changes going in my head) they will eventually look at you expectantly at which point I make a 'cut throat' sign (slice hand across throat) And I join the sequence at wherever they shut up. I like to solo unaccompanied apart from the most sensitive players. My time is like a train and the changes are always audible in what I do so they will be in no doubt as to where I am. With players I know well they all know what I want and the good ones can provide it. I've said this on here before but it's worth repeating: Billy Higgins famously said... "You're not supposed to rape the drums, you should make love to them, All the best horn players listen to the bass all the time so you're not supposed to drown it out". Now we have to compete with sax through PA and amplified keyboards too, I have, for lots of my working life, been told to turn up, I always say emphatically "NO, you turn down" Incidentally MM, I lived and worked as a pro in Manchester from '92 to '05 so there's a good chance I'll have been on the stand with the guys you're referring to. Jake[/quote] Hey I like that idea - not playing till they all shut up ! Great stuff! Obviously we all work in different ways (it would be so boring if we were all the same) - and playing entirely unaccompanied is something I love to do BUT I always want to do it FREE from the tempo and the sequence. But this can only be done if the rest of the band are aware that this is going to happen or there will be a train crash. So its not really an option on a depping gig. And like you I don't like being told to turn up. Mind you I like it even less when told to turn down - not that that happens very often. You are made to feel like you've committed a petty crime. I think a good player should always start at minimal amplification and only turn up if the overall balance requires it. So where did you play in Manchester, Jake ? And who were your regular cohorts ? I've been in this city for all my working life so we must know some of the same people. The Major

Thanks for the replies guys and gals - I didn't expect so many so soon. i hope we get a few more - it's good to hear every bodies experiences. Bandleaders can vary hugely (I've done my fair share), but the best are those who encourage and nurture you without accepting sloppy playing. A good jazz gig needs friendly camaraderie, not an oppressive regime. One very well known UK sax player made me feel very uncomfortable before the gig (no rehearsal) when I told him I spent most of my time in a symphony orch. This is perhaps going off topic - but the point needs to be made that there is a lot of discrimination in the jazz world against what it sees as outsiders. Luckily I was able to "prove" myself by the end of the gig and it was all back slapping and jolly. But I was made to sweat - you DO KNOW "A Well Known Jazz Standard" DON'T YOU ? ".......er yes I think so " (trembling) . And dirty looks if I got it slightly wrong first time round the sequence. You can sometimes be made to feel foolish if you don't know every tune in the book. Like others, I carry some Real Books with me, but there's always some tune they want to do that's not in there. Back to TOPIC: Jennifer is right - the best accompaniments are those that you don't notice. But also sometimes it's quite refreshing when the guys build the tension with you. And AdamWoodBass has had the same experience as me - drummers who are not even on the same planet as the rest of the band. And don't you feel you've let yourself down when you feel you need to say NO to the chance of a solo ? Playing solos is what I look forward to on a jazz gig (what does that say about MY ego?) and I try to say YES every time. Maybe towards the end of the gig, I sometimes feel knackered (if playing DB) and refuse solos just because I've run out of steam. Time to let the drummer play his extended solo thrash ?! The Major

Hands up boys and girls if you recognise this scenario: You're depping on a jazz gig - you know one of the guys vaguely, but the rest are just names you have heard on the local circuit. You get set up, grab a quick pint, and the bandleader calls "Oleo" in Bb. "That ok for you, Mr Bassman ? It's just Rhythm Changes." "No probs" you say and then comes the count. Intro,tune, solos and then B'leader looks at you and mouths "Bass solo ?". You nod and then its spotlight on bass. But the pianist and drummer and guitarist all keep playing, and at the same level as for the sax solo. You think "Hey guys come on, let me be heard " - but somehow you get to the end of the solo - tune, ending and out. You start to say "Hey guys, look, when i take a solo...." but B'leader has already called the next tune - and it's one you are only familiar with from a CD you heard some time ago. Always willing to have a go at something new, you accept the challenge and then remember that this tune has an awkward sequence - extra bars here and there - some off the wall chords in the middle 8 - but it's too late to ask the pianist - it's count in, intro and your off...... After the tune and sax solo, the B'leader says" bass solo" - "Oh god (you think), I haven't even got to grips with the sequence yet ....... " and then the bloody drummer just STOPS playing..... and the pianist and guitarist too..... you are all on your own, floundering around.... NO HELP FROM ANYBODY..... OK put in some syncopations and cross-rhythms - that should sound like I know what I'm doing... but then you lose where "one" is and it's all falling apart..... the band come back in but all over the place.... nobody knows where "one" is .. somehow it gets back on track - tune, ending and out. PHEW! OK - hands down - I see quite a few of you have had this sort of experience. It seems to be quite common. So what do we do ? Write out a list of instructions for how we like our bass solos to be accompanied ? I doubt that that would go down too well with other jazzers. Insist on talking it all through before playing ?..... how often can you make that happen ? In an ideal world we would have a rehearsal or at least a discussion before playing ... but in these cash strapped times, jazz rehearsals are pretty rare. I'm lucky enough to play quite regularly with 2 other guys (pno/drs) and we have spent some time just talking about how we like to work as a team. And their accompaniment of bass my solos is always to my liking. The drummer gives me a solid but subtle rhythmic bed to work on - the pianist just hints at the chords, making sure I know where the modulations and cadence points are. This frees me up to be creative - I can try cross rhythms without worrying about "losing it". I can take the harmonic structure "out" and know I will always be pointed back "in". At the same time, the boys will go with me if I build to a climax, and will set up a dialogue with me if it's appropriate. My view is this: The bass player is as entitled to a decent, thoughtful accompaniment as any other player. And if the drummer just STOPS every time you take a solo, tell him just what you really think !! Similarly, a drum solo can be accompanied by the other players - although common practise is to leave the drummer to it. But you would be surprised just how many drummers really like having a riff or groove under their solos. OK boys and girls - homework today is to tell me your experiences with bass soloing in a jazz / blues / roots context. The Major

Well I finally decided to go for the Evah Pirazzi strings. I was able to get the "soft" gauge that have just come to the UK. Got the G string on fine - played a few notes both pizz and arco - sounded great - was getting really excited about having the whole set on. Then DISASTER !! I put on the D. When I got it up to about a C, the bloody machine started clicking - the thread just couldn't take the pressure. Its an old bass - probably 1850 ish - and although the tuning machines are probably not the originals, they are certainly old and knackered. Took it to Paul Ayers (Ayers Violins) in Didsbury (Manchester) and it looks like I'm gonna have to have new tuners. And I've been told they won't be cheap - got to be sourced from Germany. What a bummer !!! Could be weeks before I get it back. Now I wish I'd stuck to my old set of Thomastic Spiros. Oh well - such is life......... The Major

For the sake of those who are new to all this, I think we need to clarify that [font="Arial Black"]Rob's truly excellent work[/font] here is really concerned with improvised soloing (in any genre - but here he has presented the accepted "jazz" thinking). As bass players we get presented with a whole load of different circumstances when we solo - drummers who stop playing / pianists who try to obliterate us / guitar players who insist on comping in the same range we are soloing in etc etc (THINKS - I might start a thread about how bass players should insist on certain criteria for the accompaniment of their solos). I would encourage Rob (if he has time) to break down these theory lessons into bite sized chunks, and gear some of it at least, to the theory /understanding that a rhythm section bass player needs to know - ie how this knowledge translates into a good bass line. Those of us who have the benefit of experience, probably know most of what Rob has written here (although it's always good to read the theory from another's perspective) but I'm concerned that, to a newer player, this will seem like gobbledigook and will put them off reading further. The theory of music is a fascinating subject, but some of it's concepts take time to digest and internalize and I don't think it can be rushed. The Major

Well done Rob ! This should keep some Forum Members going for a year ! The Major

[quote name='rslaing' post='525756' date='Jun 27 2009, 10:16 AM']Yep - the fourth is there, it's the next harmonic (in order) after the octave and the fifth. But you are correct, it is hard to hear to the mere mortal. Then we have a major third and a minor third and then a minor 7th comes in to the picture. Notice the relationship of the harmonic series to anything? Yes, modern harmony is based on the natural law of the harmonic series. Here's a pic. along with the rest of the harmonic series[/quote] Morning Rob Forgive me if I have missed something (its a common fault of mine!) but on the pic you posted I don't see an F natural - the fourth note of C major. And I'd be very interested if you would expand on your theory of the relationship between modern harmony and the harmonic series. I can see that the major triad is clearly there, however the dominant 7th is surely too weak to be audible in the overtones. And the rest are more academic than useful. EDIT: Rob I've just realised we are talking at cross purposes re the FOURTH. You are referring I think to the INTERVAL of a fourth between G and C, whereas I am referring to the fourth note of the major scale (F in the key of C).

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='522427' date='Jun 24 2009, 11:04 AM']Am I right in thinking that the 'common tones' Spiltmilk was referring to are nothing more complicated than relative minors (the sixth mode of any major scale or a minor chord three semitones below that major)? C6 is Am7, D6 is Bm7, G6 is Em7 etc. As for the Neopolitan stuff, I think MM is right. This is another way of repackaging stuff that is known by other terms elsewhere. It sounds a lot like figured bass to me but I am not 100% on 'classical' theory; my knowledge all comes from the use of theory in jazz. Its the sounds that matter not the names! Stravinsky influences Ohad Talmor a lot (he even quotes the Rite of Spring in a solo) [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lhistoire-Du-Clochard-Bums-Tale/dp/B001PM2P0A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1245837764&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lhistoire-Du-Cloch...7764&sr=8-1[/url] or OhadTalmor.com[/quote] Hi Bilbo Thanks for bringing this album to my (our) attention. I've never been a big fan of Steve Swallow - I find his tone a bit lifeless - but this album (having listened to the clips on Amazon) sounds really interesting. I love the line-up ! Especially as there are no drums !! And compositionally, it does as you say have Stravinskyesque influences. Can you tell me more about this sextet - the players / who wrote the pieces etc I rarely buy CDs these days but I might have to get this one. The Major