Hutton

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1317243813' post='1388689'] Surely they're Mexican? [/quote] Is there an echo in here?

Are these two made in Mexico?

Lest the 'for sale basses' forum gets clogged with other issues perhaps this could be moved to 'general bass discussion'.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1317039175' post='1385725'] I do have some issues with people who move in next door to a pub and then complain when it gets a bit noisy. If you live near a venue it's only to be expected that there will be some noise. I live near a social club that regularly has the back door open while music is being played, smokers who holler at the top of their voices all night, and customers who seem to like spending 20 minutes shouting goodbye and revving car engines & doing donuts in the car park. I wouldn't dream of complaining though - I knew the club was there when I moved in. Unfortunately, not all people are quite as tolerant as me. [/quote] I had no choice to live where I do as I am in a tied house. I am a tolerant person. However, when I have to work the next day I value my sleep. Excessive noise at 1am and sometimes 2am is just not acceptable.

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1317034966' post='1385626'] So, for the 8000000000th time on friday, the management at the venue we were playing (small pub, neighbours who like to complain a lot) asked us to turn down before we'd even made a sound, and then after the world's quietest soundcheck, asked us if we could still be quieter. Bearing in mind that this is the quietest band I've ever been in (synth-heavy 80s tribute, Duran Duran, Spandau, etc. etc.) I have rarely been left with so much as a ring in my last working ear after one of our sets. Made me chuckle again, as I pressed the DFA button on the desk and said "No worries, love, we'll go down another notch or two". Then, the guitarist and the drummer turned round to us and said "Shall we just ****ing go?" and intimated that they weren't prepared to put up with this crap, and we were too good for this gig anyway and so on and so on. Me and the singer were fairly clear that we were doing the damn gig, and needed the money, and had driven for about 2 hours to get here anyway. Guitar player was so sulky, he turned down for the whole 1st set to a completely inaudible level (despite me and the singer askig him between each song not to be a twat, he finally turned up for the 2nd set, after keyboard player had a word) which p*ssed me off even more. My view has always been that the person who is paying you to play in their venue can pretty much ask you to do anything (within reason) and you should smilingly agree and carry on. I can't be doing with the ego thing. Also I used to run a pub with problem neighbours, and had to try and keep the levels as low as possible, and if you don't remind most bands a good two or three times, they do tend to get louder, she's just doing her job. Anyone have an opposing view? Do you believe that as "the talent" you have a god given right to play as loud as you want wherever you like? Or like me, are you a firm believer in the DFA button and a kind smile and nod? [/quote] I would agree with all you say especially if you are being paid for the gig. I stay beside a venue and there is nothing worse then excessive noise in the wee small hours. The watchword here is 'excessive'. How loud do you need to be for your set to appreciated? I've often felt at many pub gigs that the level of volume was so unnecessary.

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' post='1376032' date='Sep 16 2011, 10:47 PM']Exactly, things always, well, nearly always, sell for what the market says they are worth at that time. If a 'vintage' bass is worth £5k, and someone is selling it for £10k, by overmarketing the whole 'vintage' thing, it simply wont sell. Buyers who spend big money arent stupid, they generally know the market very well, and are shrewd with their purchases. Only when a partcularly scarce or unique item comes up for sale, and there are more than one serious person wanting it, does the price often get escalated, but generally this is not the case. Those who say vintage is used as a false selling ploy to inflate prices are a bit misguided, I've never known this to be the case, or an instrument sold over its value because it said vintage in the description. People know what they are buying.[/quote] Sorry. I don't agree that this is always the case. I think that many are wrongly impressed that an instrument will be better if it is so-called 'vintage'. They therefore pay a lot of money for something that isn't necessarily better than a new instrument. We have been conditioned by this whole, old instruments are fantastic crap, way of thinking. It verges on propaganda by those who would seek to sell at inflated prices just because of age. I have taken a 'vintage' instrument and played it through an amp. I have then taken a much newer instrument only a couple or years old and played it through the same amp with the same settings. One bass was a pre CBS precision with the other being my AV 62 precision. Of course there were differences as no two basses are the same. Were the differences huge? No. I actually preferred the newer instrument. Ok, you may say that was only two instruments and therefore cannot be used as an argument. However, the 'vintage' instrument was selling at several thousand pounds more then the newer bass. Would I have bought the 'vintage' instrument. Yes I would have - if I had been a collector who had to have a precision of that era! Old instruments are exactly what they say they are - old instruments. Call them vintage if you like. Just don't think that they should be worth what some poor souls pay for them.

Maybe it all depends on whether you view guitars/basses as a collector or as a player.

All I'm trying to say is that the term 'vintage' has been seen by many people to somehow confer a superiority on instruments falling under this category. Prices therefore follow suit. It is however IMO misplaced. If we just dropped the term altogether then it wouldn't be an issue. Each bass would be taken on it's own merits and priced accordingly as a Jazz, Precision or whatever irrespective of age. As far as Fenders are concerned I'm going to leave the last word of this post to 'Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars' :- "Fender was sold to CBS on January 4 1965. Although the instrument lines continued to expand until the end of the decade, the sale of CBS marked the beginning of a decline in Fender quality that lasted through the 1970s."

You're a gentleman Nige. If I needed icing on the cake then you have just provided it. I've saved the clips to my favourites for reference. Many Thanks! BTW, nice playing.

[quote name='neepheid' post='1375260' date='Sep 16 2011, 10:33 AM']Vintage? An ill defined term used by people to pump up the prices of items based upon mythical, intangible, time bestowed properties. I think it's to do with the distribution of Fairy Dust. People who set a firm time where "Vintage" stops assume that Fairy Dust stopped falling on basses at that time. People who apply an age to "Vintage" assume that Fairy Dust falls on basses at a constant rate. The corollary to that is that Leo Fender was God's sole appointed sprinkler of Fairy Dust on basses. This is because it's only products of companies he's been involved with that seem to have this pre-(whatever company bought the place and RUINED EVERYTHING) nomenclature applied to them.[/quote] You've hit the nail on the head with this post Matt. A bass is a bass is a bass! I would rather have a brand new Fender Precision than some so-called 'vintage' instruments. The term vintage does not confer playability on an instrument. Yet the term is used to hike prices to silly levels. I have a 1984 Precision which is an excellent bass. If I was to sell it then I can expect to pocket about £400 - £500 less than a late 70s Precision. Why?- because the 70s seems to confer magic on Fenders. I have yet to play a late 70s bass that I though was better than my 84. Plus they have all been heavier. I remember the 70s - there were more bad Fenders than good ones. Also, some 'vintage' instruments are knackered yet still command high prices. I would be happy if the term vintage was simply dropped. After all this thread alone has shown that the term is not easy to define. Let's just treat each bass as we find it!

Thanks for the replies chaps. Looks like a good move!

[quote name='casapete' post='1374721' date='Sep 15 2011, 06:14 PM']The only thing that made me stop using my 63 P-bass was a Ray. Just a logical extension of Leo's original classic,[/quote] Does that mean you'll be moving on to a G&L?

Has anyone any knowledge of what difference a John East Preamp will make to a Lakland DJ4. I'm thinking about the upgrade. Many thanks.

[quote name='Donnyboy' post='1374052' date='Sep 15 2011, 09:03 AM']If it's based in Paisley, don't ask too many questions! [/quote] Ha! Ha! That's rich coming from someone from Falkirk!

[quote name='the hand of john curley' post='1371265' date='Sep 12 2011, 11:39 PM']ha ha !! - As quoted by Brian Potter - Pheonix Nights![/quote] Oh right. I hadn't heard the quote before. All is now clear.

Personally I would never buy a late 70s Fender anything unless I had a go at it first. I've too many memories of dreadful Fenders of that period.

sweet baby Jesus and the orphans?