Muzz

Beefy glue?

It's technically plywood... 😐

I've just looked at the lyrics (for the first time, despite 'knowing' this song for decades) and Oh My Sainted Trousers it is indeed a shocker. I mean, it's not the lyricist's native language, but even so... blimey. Now I really want to hear what AI made of it... 🙂

Good grief, I'm not 'admitting'...there have been many discussions on this (wayyyyy too many, to be honest) and I've never said anything to the contrary. I already alluded (just above) to RS's very well-made (handmade) basses benefiting from this process, which is part of their construction. Now then, what about this wood? You know, the title of the thread?

Wait till you read what my manifesto says about Class D and Heft...😀

I have - construction is a factor in sound, as is pickup placement, pickup, loom/EQ, strings, yadda yadda yadda. There are many, many factors which will change the response of the instrument, some cumulative, some greater, some smaller. You've stated wood is a huge factor. Care to back that up with anything?

Construction is indeed a factor in sound. But the wood? Huge? Tell me how and why.

I thought we were done at marketing flimflam, really...I'm not saying it's a ripoff, I'm sure (and I've said this before, too) that his top-end instruments are very, very well made (and that in itself is a contributing factor to how well they sound/play), but unfounded marketing flimflam claims are just that. If he said 'there is a difference, I don't know why, and it's very small compared to how well we make the basses and the quality of the parts', that'd be a clearer. But if he's the only person in his market sector saying that, he'd lose sales...

I'll take not believing in the flimflam...

Also worth noting that the company who sell more instruments than any other are very coy about any effects from wood; they list lots of details, but stick to the facts: pickup model, nut width, scale, etc - even their £2.6k Ltd Edition American Ultra PJ bodies are 'Alder or Ash' The more strident proponents of the effects of wood on tone (what I'm assuming we're referring to here as 'tonewood') are the higher end luthiers, because, and I almost can't believe I'm saying this again, it's a distinguishing selling point for their product, true or not...and it can't be proven false, because it's a non-empirical claim.

Well at least they go for 'not a huge factor'... 🙂

Ohhhh, go on; show us the AI rewritten lyrics... 😁

Oh, and just to illustrate the flimflam, here's some descriptions from Alembic, pretty much the top of the shop of tonewood purveyors: 'shimmer' 'focused' 'mellow' 'beefy' 'plump' 'burly' 'both bright and dark' 'distinct' The Milton Model of advertising, right there, and not a fact to be seen.

Taking aside the Occam's Razor of motivation behind many of the internet declarations of the overimportance of tonewood (see my earlier posts), it boils down to one thing: empirical vs non-empirical experience. Those of us who very much doubt the importance of tonewood are coming from an empirical stance (a bit like the hilariously mentioned 'it's basic physics' earlier) and stating the many, many factors affecting the sound of an instrument (most of which I'm just not bothering to list any more, but an honorable mention to Dad's statement above, which I'm going to reduce to 'How is the resonance/tone of an instrument affected by the dulling effect of being strapped to 15st of squidgy bassist?') meaning that the lovely statements given by high end luthiers for their tonewood are at best marketing flimflam. I have never said tonewood has absolutely no effect on an electric instrument, what I am saying is it is bordering on the negligible compared to many other factors (again, I'm not bothering to list them, it's been done too many times). If any of the proponents of the overimportance tonewood would care to engage with any actual evidence (you know, facts, figures, repeatable experimentation results... aka 'basic physics') other than the non-empirical, which I know people feel to be self-evident, but involves confirmation bias, inherited opinion and shaky reasoning, I'm all ears. Until then, you do you and I'll do me...

Can't beat a 414... 🙂 Interestingly, it looks like he's got a strap button on or about the neck plate...not seen that before with a BB...

Did that in another band for years, it's dead easy; end PTFM on the riff, 4/4 kick for a bar (or two, it you're feeling particularly tantalising), then the drummer switches to the Superstition pattern, and off you go again...very similar songs, I'll grant you, but never give the punters on a a full dance floor the chance to slink off... 🙂

On the mashups/segues, we do Superstition -> Relax -> The TFF Shout, which goes down surprisingly well. We can chuck 7 Nation Army in there if needs be, but that's a call on the night. Just for the record, I've never, ever seen/heard Sit Down go badly; I must have played it hundreds of times over the years. It might be a NW thing, along with Oasis...

Bass of the alps? ISWYDT... 😁

Satdy night was a pub in Preston we've played before - half an hour trip for the other guys, an hour for me (I live further East), but an easy hour sat on the motorway with the cruise control on saving diesel. Agency gig, and to echo other sentiments, I've no idea why some pubs put bands on, there was little to no interest. Apparently there never is, according to the bar staff. It wasn't helped that the patrons were thin on the ground (tho we've played to much, much less of a crowd) - chatting to the bar staff when we got in they were expecting a quiet night as a lot of people were holding out for a big Sunday for the match. So we were left with 80% hard-drinking 60+ blokes, a smattering of borderline-underage kids in the pool room, and a few bored 60+ wives who'd been dragged out for a brandy and babycham. And lots and lots of tellys... 3rd choice drummer (we're undergoing some Drummer Hoohah at the moment) and we were a 3-piece (percussionist dipped out so we'd make enough to justify the trip), so it was more by the way of a paid rehearsal to bed the guy in to the versions of the songs we play. 2 x 45, one encore (shouted for by the landlord after an embarrasing minute's silence when I'd started to pack up), pack and go. Upsides were the paid rehearsal thing, better money than usual, and an 11:04 finish. On the road home for 11:20 - the landlord had bitched on last time about the time it took us to break down and pack up, so we'd taken minimal gear. Oh, and I got to watch Argentina beat France on the telly, too. The Sonic Precision was really good, and the Stellartone Tonestyler (bought from Ead in this very parish) I'd fitted worked very, very well in a live setting. It's all about dem mids... Sonic P, Stomp, inears. That's it.

Yeah, I've been through it, the BL has strummed it to me (on his acoustic), and as you say, without the iconic arrangement (or any keys) there's not much left - the vocal line was written to be downbeat and pretty monotone, I really, really can't hear it in a pub. We're not a rock band per se, either, there's no realistic way to get the hookys (SWIDT?) in there...none of those rocky covers are anywhere near the power of the original...and most of them have keys in anyway. As I say, in terms of a quirky acoustic I can see the novelty (after all there's a million ads out there with 'quirky acoustic' versions of classic songs), I'm pretty much convinced in a Dog & Duck band setting it'll fall completely flat. I'm currently working on some Moog-y synth presets for the Stomp, if I could get one nailed it might stand a chance, but if you can hear congas and bongos in it, you're a better man than I am...

I play in a very busy band because the extra money is a thing (with having a boy at Uni who apparently needs to eat every day - I've spoken to him about this, but he's adamant - and his loans don't cover his living costs, plus he's in a small town Uni where jobs are very scarce), and as someone once said 'my musical integrity is entirely soluble in cash'. I'm there in the pub to entertain punters, that's the start and finish of it, and if what entertains them is Oasis and SoF, then I'll play it, and I'll play it the very best of my ability. There are songs I enjoy playing more than others, but I'm not so precious that I won't play something I wouldn't have on my Spotify playlist. It's a function of wanting as many gigs as possible, if I didn't want to gig much I could be more picky, but I do and I'm not. The only time I've pushed back against the BL/Gig Getter/Singist/geetard with his choices is when the songs just won't work: he also does a couple of jam/acoustic nights, and will come with ideas that might work (and apparently have worked) as a quirky acoustic cover, but not in a band setting - the latest one is Blue Monday, which in a guitar/bass/percussion/drums band is just never going to fly.

That level of sensibly-deployed democracy is as welcome as it's rare, but I've always considered singists as First Among Equals; not only do they have to be able to technically sing the notes (in this they're on a par with the musicians being able to play it), but they're the focus of the audience's attention, and a good band needs a good singist/frontperson, and they are much better when they're comfortable singing the song, too, and selling it to the audience - I've been in bands where an otherwise completely reasonable singer wouldn't cover a female-sung song. Not particularly helpful or open-minded of him, it was just how he was (he did try a few, but he was so uncomfortable that everyone else was, too), and we either lived with it or changed the band. An extreme example, obviously, because there are many degrees of this, but singing in front of strangers is a far more exposed and personal thing than playing an instrument. Some personalities take to it, some don't, and that bit is not an arbiter of actual singing talent. Quite the reverse sometimes when drunk girls in the audience want to sing a song...

The current BL has a big 80s thing going on with song selection (and as he's the singist, he gets first suggestion/veto on anything, which is as it should be), and from recent audience responses (which is frankly what it's all about) he's onto something - with notable 'classic' exceptions (SoF, Mr.B, 69, Proud Mary, etc) the majority of our audiences (pubs) these days are happier hearing 80s (and some later 70s) songs than anything. It's an age thing; I've mentioned before, an ex-BL (a talented singer/guitarist) when he was between day jobs got a series of afternoon gigs in old peoples homes, and a lot of his popular set was Beatles songs. The world turns, it's not just the artists who are getting older...

Yeah, I looked at just about every headless in Christendom on my search for lighter basses, and even bought a Hondo Alien, which is a cheapo clone of this (there's a chance it could be a Hondo, but with a band of that quality I very much doubt it), I'm pretty sure they didn't do a purple one, then again there's not much to paint... Here's a black one:

Rasputin was trenchant social commentary* with a great pop tune underneath...and some rather striking dance moves, too... *Although I remain to be convinced that Grigori was ever referred to by any of his contemporaries, even Moscow chicks, as A Lovely Dear...