Muzz

Then again, the Fender Close Enough For Most People would've needed either an unreadable font or a bigger headstock...

It's all in the anagram: Fender Precision = Reinforced Penis.

Played at our regular place in Manchester town centre Friday, the Oirish bar; given the weather hoohah I'd imagined a quiet night, but there was a queue outside all night of never less than a dozen people, it was one out, one in all night... And they were all up for it, too...a cracking night...during one of the set breaks (we do 3x45) I was chatting outside to a bloke from Guatemala who'd come over for 5 days; his first day in Manchester and he couldn't believe how lively it was...'Eeees crayzee, crayzee...' 🙂 On inspiration from the gig I went to during the week (Elbow at the Night&Day Cafe*), we didn't turn it up too loud, and the sound was soooo much better for it... *Incidentally, there's an online petition to try and defend against them losing their license after a Noise Abatement complaint (yet another ar*ehole who buys a flat next to a music venue that's been central to Manchester's music scene for 30 years and then suddenly decides to get it shut down because they play live music till half ten), if you can find it, please sign it...

An extreme example of this 'what are things actually worth?' is De Beers' manipulation of the diamond market over the last century...the diamond being probably the most common gem on the planet...

If it'll bring things into more perspective, have a glance at the Alembic Price List...but make sure you're sitting down first... 😀

Can I just say that even out of context (especially out of context) that's the best one-line post I've seen on here in a while? 😁 Anyhoo, to the subject; yep, there's some great cheap basses - I played the biggest gig I've done in a while recently with a £150 BB414, and I even gigged a £32 (delivered from Thomann!) HB 50s Precision thing at a function event where the ticket price was five times that - but as has been said, although there are diminishing returns (ever more diminishing and more down to personal preference the higher up the price range they go) on more expensive basses, they're still at a high level of value/low level of cost for what you get compared to other Veblens like cars and the orchestral instruments mentioned above. What are seen as the eye-watering top of the scale basses are handbuilt by experts with the very highest quality components, and that clearly has a cost. My luthier-built instruments (Shukers, just in case anyone hadn't heard 😀) are unique, and are a thing I couldn't get for £400, or even £3k from anything factory-built. I know what I like and what I want, it's very specific, and only a luthier can deliver that. I've had (and moved on) basses from Alembic, Sei, Overwater, Status, MM (three Stingrays), Rickenbacker and the like; all £3k+ basses these days, but they were moved on not because they weren't value for money, or even poor basses (apart from the Rick), but because they didn't suit me, and for that money they need to suit me very very well. I gigged them all, to be sure, and I'd gig anything I bought; my 'justification' for that is 'I own it, I want to gig it.' I can also comment on the Dingwall thing, too; I have an ABZ, I've had two ABIIs, and I've played several Combustions, and there is a definite, substantial difference between the Combustions and the Canadian-built ones, in terms of quality, which translates into the bass feeling 'alive'. Edit: And I got all the way through that without mentioning tonewood once...ooops... 😃

Yeah, that description is kinda tonally vague and establishes the quality of the woods and construction without getting into anything specific, which is fair enough, and about as far as I'd like to see tonewoods described... 😀

There it is... 🙂

I've played a wedding there, a very special venue (not so much on the sound front, but hey, I doubt the Tudors were thinking about amplified bands when they built it 🙂 ), IIRC, the power situatation was...interesting, too... I posted a picture of my basses, right where yours is, on a FB thing I had going a while back entitled 'I've Played Some Sh*tholes In My Time, But...' 😁 Oh, and on the return journey to Manchester, the van broke down about 600 yards into the trip, at about 1:30am...we got home about lunchtime on the Sunday... 😕

Now there's a bass sound... 😃

Yep, much better for us OCD types...hang on a sec...what's that bottom cab?

It's interesting that a premium brand like Music Man who, while not quite in the luthier stratosphere like Sadowsky, have also built their brand on pros and huge exposure over decades, don't mention body wood at all (other than 'select body woods') in the sales pitch for their £2,800 Stingray Special H. They sell it on the small design improvements, the pickups and the preamp, plus the build....oh, and weight... Maybe they don't think the wood is much of an influence on the sound of the bass? More likely is their product is built around a different marketing model than Sadowskys (and a different production method), and this trumps any wood-based hoohah...

I agree with both of the above, (and only Roger S's sales records would show the ratio of buyers who are professionals to those who are podgy middle aged blokes (just like McLaren's or Ferrari's or whoever)), but I still contend that in the real world, for Pros and PMABs alike, there are much more important factors to a bass's sound (unless anyone's getting unamplified gigs) than the wood - pickups, pickup placement, EQ, construction, etc - but that doesn't seem to get the same emphasis that tonewood flim-flam does...perhaps because pickups and EQ can be placed in various positions in more or less any bass to get 90% of the sound, and that's not Sadowsky's gig, making, as he does, copies (albeit far better built and therefore expensive) of tried and tested designs. I've never discounted that different woods can make a different sound, only that it's marginal, and almost impossible to nail down scientifically, given the variances in wood of even the same type. There was a thorough list of variables given above, and that illustrates the murky waters we're operating in here; all sorts of claims can be made, but because they can't be empirically proven, they can't be disproven, either. There's no sense of that in the original info from Roger S, and he knows it, which is I guess what irks me... I had a maple-bodied, wenge-necked Warwick once (probably the furthest from a 'standard' set of woods that I've had), and it did make a very slightly different sound to the alder/ash-bodied, maple-necked ones I had, but amplified it was all about the pickups, EQ and placement. I've also had basses that in terms of wood content should have sounded the same, but didn't. I should add for full disclosure that I'm a Shuker fanboi, and yeah, when I've ordered basses I've specified particular woods, but that's been purely on a weight and/or looks basis. Jon and I stay diplomatically away from tonewood discussions... 🙂 There's a great Terry Pratchett line (referring to a bloke selling hot food of possibly dubious provenance) which goes 'To sell the sausage, you've got to sell the sizzle'

Not as esoteric on the bass front, but back in the late 80s I ordered a Yamaha BB3000A new via our geetard who worked in a big music shop in Manchester. There was a delay in delivery, because Yamaha UK didn't have any, and Yamaha EU only had two left, a black one and a white one. I wasn't massively bothered about the colour, but the delay was a customer had ordered one before me, and hadn't decided which colour he wanted, so they were holding both till he made up his mind. I was told it was AC (hence the preferential treatment), but kinda took it with a pinch of salt. Eventually it was resolved, and I got the white one. When it turned up the shipping case had 'Clayton U2' written on it...

Overhang...just enough to trigger my OCD, but then,as has been established previously, I'm as shallow as a puddle... 😕🙂 Bet it sounds glorious, tho...Too Much is never enough... 🙂

'Marketing flim flam'...it might be no worse, but it's certainly no better. Ceramic brakes, of course, actually do work better than their cheaper alternatives at high temperatures, that there's a scientific fact. Expensive custom paint jobs...look nice, if you like that sort of thing. And as for expensive perfume...I was bought some of that Johnny Depp's Sausage aftershave last Christmas, and I'm still waiting for my Mustang convertible... 😕 I doubt if Roger S said 'Look, it doesn't matter much what wood it's made from, but we make them really, really well, and they look lovely' his sales would go up...I'd still stand by the fact that yes, he has an expensive product to sell, but making extravagant claims which have no scientific basis* is chicanery and I'm calling it... 🙂 * I'm always willing to reconsider this should something actually be proven but, like James Randi's million dollars, I'm staying put till this happens.

Gail Ann Dorsey...there's more to being Bowie's bassist than just playing the notes...anyone who could make DB smile like he does at 2:31 is doing something very special indeed...

Hoicked up that high, it does look like one of the most uncomfortable basses I've ever seen...a full gig with your left hand stretched out at head height? Ouch... Still a fantastic bass tho...but I know I'd hardly ever gig it...

The suffering is real... #jesuismoaningbleeder

All very well, but she'd be useless loading the van at the end of the night... 😁 I do love watching kids play, even better if they're a band; as I mentioned in another thread, we gigged at a local bar and the (trio) band on before us were 14, 15 and 16...they were a joy to watch... 🙂

Surprise double gig night last night: first one was a freebie hour's set for a Charrridy Do, an easy one, with backline provided, we then shot off to drop the singist/geetard/BL at another bar (where we've gigged as a band previously) where he'd been asked to do a solo gig, and we (the drummer and I) decided to stay for one while he got going. There was a three-piece band still going in there, some kids (14, 15 and 16) who were fantastic; I love watching kids play - their enthusiasm and energy is a joy. When they finished, the singist had a chat with the bar owner, and then the Dads (and Mum) of the kids, and they very kindly let us use their drums and bass amp (drummer already had his breakables with him, I had my bass, obv) so we could do a couple of 45 min sets as a band and make some money on the night. A great end to a very musical evening... 🙂

Did anyone demand you play Sex On Fire, or 'Anything by Tina Turner'? 😕🙂

A man with exemplary taste... 😃 About a billion years ago...well, before Covid, anyway; it's a long story, but I'm in no massive rush, and Jon and I have spoken about it frequently. I'll be picking it up sometime soon(ish), tho... 🙂

I've got a JJB Sig Precision in the works with Jon Shuker...I do love JJB (and credit him with making me want to play the bass in the first place - see another thread for details) and Precisions (well, split coil pickups in the P position), especially in black/black/maple, and of course I'm a Shuker fanboi, soooooo...it was kind of inevitable...mine, however, has a verrrry slim Jazz neck (I don't really do big necks) without dots, so it might not count... 🙂 Like BlueMoon above, I nearly bought a new 4001CS a while back (and my boss at the time was a friend of CS, so a proper signature was on the cards, too), but it all fell through. That one, though, would have remained in its case, unplayed and accumulating value... I've also had a Jack Casady, purely because I fancied trying a semi-hollow, rather than any affinity with Mr Casady himself...and I had a Mike Dirnt, because I like the old Precision shape, rather than Mr D...

I'm enjoying the Carlton Palmer reference - the man about whom his manager once said 'He covers every blade of grass out there, but that's only because his first touch is so crap...' 😃