Muzz

Are you new here? 😀

One of Roger's opening lines is '...over time I've come to realise...' which is, yet again, non-empirical, and rather undermines the rest of it... Show me where somebody said that. I have implied that luthiers selling expensive instruments have employed marketing flimflam (and a good read of that Alembic page illustrates that) to help sell their instruments, for sound business reasons. I've also alluded to where bass makers who don't need such a marketing edge (Fender, for example), markedly don't. Odd you mention religion (again): the complete lack of empirical evidence for any of the claims about specific tonewoods making specific tones means that people claiming (without any possible material gain) that is so believe in something without any proof. I believe in other circles that's called 'faith'... No-one's hiding behind science; a healthy request for anything, anything at all to prove any of it is hardly unreasonable. Then again, as I say, you do you, I'll do me.

Or a wedding gig with a vicious sound limiter set at 'Murmur' and a polished dance floor; you could hear squeaking shoes from the dancers, and the odd cough...it was like one of those joke Tiktok vids....

They are two different basses. No matter how you turn the argument, you don't know that, and it's your judgement. Non-empirical, yet again. We're talking here (or trying to, despite the derails) about tone coming from wood itself, not from acoustics, which you actually do refer to here: 'Rosewood...predominantly having more bass and less mid, where as Mahogany has predominantly less bass and more mid' How? Oh, and for reference, Alembic call Rosewood 'both bright and dark', if that helps... Still waiting to hear 'huge effect in sound' in terms of electric instruments, which, again, is what we're talking about here.

Non-empirical again, which is what I was describing earlier. Identical? Same wood from the same bit of the same tree? They are the same wood, right? Is the neck joint exactly the same in each?

The poetic wood descriptions are rather O Level, too, although they describe the look and construction (eeeek, I mean how the wood is worked, like spalted maple) pretty well.

Beefy glue?

It's technically plywood... 😐

I've just looked at the lyrics (for the first time, despite 'knowing' this song for decades) and Oh My Sainted Trousers it is indeed a shocker. I mean, it's not the lyricist's native language, but even so... blimey. Now I really want to hear what AI made of it... 🙂

Good grief, I'm not 'admitting'...there have been many discussions on this (wayyyyy too many, to be honest) and I've never said anything to the contrary. I already alluded (just above) to RS's very well-made (handmade) basses benefiting from this process, which is part of their construction. Now then, what about this wood? You know, the title of the thread?

Wait till you read what my manifesto says about Class D and Heft...😀

I have - construction is a factor in sound, as is pickup placement, pickup, loom/EQ, strings, yadda yadda yadda. There are many, many factors which will change the response of the instrument, some cumulative, some greater, some smaller. You've stated wood is a huge factor. Care to back that up with anything?

Construction is indeed a factor in sound. But the wood? Huge? Tell me how and why.

I thought we were done at marketing flimflam, really...I'm not saying it's a ripoff, I'm sure (and I've said this before, too) that his top-end instruments are very, very well made (and that in itself is a contributing factor to how well they sound/play), but unfounded marketing flimflam claims are just that. If he said 'there is a difference, I don't know why, and it's very small compared to how well we make the basses and the quality of the parts', that'd be a clearer. But if he's the only person in his market sector saying that, he'd lose sales...

I'll take not believing in the flimflam...

Also worth noting that the company who sell more instruments than any other are very coy about any effects from wood; they list lots of details, but stick to the facts: pickup model, nut width, scale, etc - even their £2.6k Ltd Edition American Ultra PJ bodies are 'Alder or Ash' The more strident proponents of the effects of wood on tone (what I'm assuming we're referring to here as 'tonewood') are the higher end luthiers, because, and I almost can't believe I'm saying this again, it's a distinguishing selling point for their product, true or not...and it can't be proven false, because it's a non-empirical claim.

Well at least they go for 'not a huge factor'... 🙂

Ohhhh, go on; show us the AI rewritten lyrics... 😁

Oh, and just to illustrate the flimflam, here's some descriptions from Alembic, pretty much the top of the shop of tonewood purveyors: 'shimmer' 'focused' 'mellow' 'beefy' 'plump' 'burly' 'both bright and dark' 'distinct' The Milton Model of advertising, right there, and not a fact to be seen.

Taking aside the Occam's Razor of motivation behind many of the internet declarations of the overimportance of tonewood (see my earlier posts), it boils down to one thing: empirical vs non-empirical experience. Those of us who very much doubt the importance of tonewood are coming from an empirical stance (a bit like the hilariously mentioned 'it's basic physics' earlier) and stating the many, many factors affecting the sound of an instrument (most of which I'm just not bothering to list any more, but an honorable mention to Dad's statement above, which I'm going to reduce to 'How is the resonance/tone of an instrument affected by the dulling effect of being strapped to 15st of squidgy bassist?') meaning that the lovely statements given by high end luthiers for their tonewood are at best marketing flimflam. I have never said tonewood has absolutely no effect on an electric instrument, what I am saying is it is bordering on the negligible compared to many other factors (again, I'm not bothering to list them, it's been done too many times). If any of the proponents of the overimportance tonewood would care to engage with any actual evidence (you know, facts, figures, repeatable experimentation results... aka 'basic physics') other than the non-empirical, which I know people feel to be self-evident, but involves confirmation bias, inherited opinion and shaky reasoning, I'm all ears. Until then, you do you and I'll do me...

Can't beat a 414... 🙂 Interestingly, it looks like he's got a strap button on or about the neck plate...not seen that before with a BB...

Did that in another band for years, it's dead easy; end PTFM on the riff, 4/4 kick for a bar (or two, it you're feeling particularly tantalising), then the drummer switches to the Superstition pattern, and off you go again...very similar songs, I'll grant you, but never give the punters on a a full dance floor the chance to slink off... 🙂

On the mashups/segues, we do Superstition -> Relax -> The TFF Shout, which goes down surprisingly well. We can chuck 7 Nation Army in there if needs be, but that's a call on the night. Just for the record, I've never, ever seen/heard Sit Down go badly; I must have played it hundreds of times over the years. It might be a NW thing, along with Oasis...

Bass of the alps? ISWYDT... 😁

Satdy night was a pub in Preston we've played before - half an hour trip for the other guys, an hour for me (I live further East), but an easy hour sat on the motorway with the cruise control on saving diesel. Agency gig, and to echo other sentiments, I've no idea why some pubs put bands on, there was little to no interest. Apparently there never is, according to the bar staff. It wasn't helped that the patrons were thin on the ground (tho we've played to much, much less of a crowd) - chatting to the bar staff when we got in they were expecting a quiet night as a lot of people were holding out for a big Sunday for the match. So we were left with 80% hard-drinking 60+ blokes, a smattering of borderline-underage kids in the pool room, and a few bored 60+ wives who'd been dragged out for a brandy and babycham. And lots and lots of tellys... 3rd choice drummer (we're undergoing some Drummer Hoohah at the moment) and we were a 3-piece (percussionist dipped out so we'd make enough to justify the trip), so it was more by the way of a paid rehearsal to bed the guy in to the versions of the songs we play. 2 x 45, one encore (shouted for by the landlord after an embarrasing minute's silence when I'd started to pack up), pack and go. Upsides were the paid rehearsal thing, better money than usual, and an 11:04 finish. On the road home for 11:20 - the landlord had bitched on last time about the time it took us to break down and pack up, so we'd taken minimal gear. Oh, and I got to watch Argentina beat France on the telly, too. The Sonic Precision was really good, and the Stellartone Tonestyler (bought from Ead in this very parish) I'd fitted worked very, very well in a live setting. It's all about dem mids... Sonic P, Stomp, inears. That's it.