alexclaber

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='415701' date='Feb 20 2009, 07:24 PM']One of the reasons for the popularity of modern basses with a bright sound is they dont suck up all your watts with bottom end so you dont need to be so loud to hear what you are playing. I dont get moaned at for being too loud half as much as I used to since I went for more hi-fi amps and basses [/quote] But if you do have an amp with ooomph(tm) few can deny the joy of a big fat old bass sound! Alex

[quote name='Alien' post='415449' date='Feb 20 2009, 03:45 PM']Alex, any idea as to when the 3012's (esp. the HO) will be available this side of the pond? I'd like to get my hands on a few.[/quote] Not until May I believe but Eminence are bringing some in early for me! If you pester one of the retailers maybe they can add to that order? Alex

Loudness is measured in dB SPL, not watts. 180W into a 1x10" will struggle in most band contexts, whilst 180W into a 1x15" or 4x10" will be fine with many. Most of that power (like 95%+) is lost as heat but the more sensitive your speaker cab, the more electrical power gets turned into acoustic output. Alex

I think GB made a real mistake with having one light come on for both the soft compression and the final output limiter. However as you're only pushing a 2x10" I'd be hesitant to completely ignore it. Those basses that light it up constantly probably have a naturally bassier tone, hence higher power demands. Alex

Ah, as I suspected it's high Qts. It I were you I'd take the back woofer out, plug the port and then stuff the whole box with polyfill. That should get rid of the hump yet still get you a lower F3 than most bass cabs. Alex

[quote name='roycruse' post='415061' date='Feb 20 2009, 10:14 AM']One thing I would like to know from the boffins - will I have reduced the high frequency response of the drivers putting them in isobaric config.[/quote] I imagine you have because you've increased the moving mass that much more because the cones are moving an additional air load. You might like to try removing the back speaker and seeing if you like the reduced bottom and increased mids and highs - it should also get louder because although you'll increase the load impedance the gain in sensitivity will more than compensate. Alex

One thing I will add is that the rise in response you have around the tuning frequency combined with the low F3 you may find the combo sounds extremely bassy once room gain in a house is added. If you lower the tuning frequency by extending the port you should be able to solve this. Alex

[quote name='bassman2790' post='414919' date='Feb 20 2009, 12:33 AM']I'm really tempted to turn my Trace 122H 2x10 combo on it's side at the next gig and see what difference it makes but I imagine my band mates and any other musos in the venue will think I've gone gaga (not Lady Gaga either)[/quote] Try it. I bet no-one cares about the visual difference and everyone likes the sonic change. My guitarist has become a complete convert to turning 2x10"/2x12" guitar combos onto their side, makes an even bigger difference with them. Alex

Excellent idea for getting deep response out of a tiny combo. The only caveat with isobaric cabs is the increased moving mass lowers the sensitivity by 3dB vs a single driver and 6dB vs two drivers, but if it's for practising then that isn't a problem. Isobaric means constant pressure, which is referring to the air in between the two drivers. They run in phase (you reverse the polarity of one if it's a clamshell design) and this halves the Vas but doubles the Mms, hence you get the same transfer function in half the cab volume but with a cost to sensitivity. Alex

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='414456' date='Feb 19 2009, 04:20 PM']Thing about being loud all over the stage, is it will be loud where the guitarist is, and he'll turn up to match, when I want to be in a place where I can mostly hear me and the drums, and a bit of him. Plus I generally want to be able to step out of the loud sometime so I get note decay, and step back in front for the sustain sometimes. Am I better off sticking with my oldschool cabs?[/quote] In that case avoid the Big One. The Compact and the Vintage will have very similar dispersion to conventional 15" cabs. Alex

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='414382' date='Feb 19 2009, 03:37 PM']It'll be far too much fun with valve amps to not make it available! Aaaargghhh! Gutted I can't make it over to the bash, and I'm only 30 miles away. Is it actually going to be ready for 1st March? [/quote] No, it's coming as in going to stay part of the line-up, whilst I think I might completely drop the 2x12" cabs - why use two twelves when you can use one fifteen and save weight and cost? It isn't going to be at the NE Bass Bash though! Alex

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='414345' date='Feb 19 2009, 03:12 PM']Is the Vintage still coming though?[/quote] It'll be far too much fun with valve amps to not make it available! However, for those with less old school leanings I think I'll recommend saving some weight and size and going for the Big One, it is just so damn loud and punchy and clear wherever you stand on stage. The support band on Tuesday's gig were an interesting kind of punky twist on Tool, v stop-start, odd changes etc; quite cool stuff. The bassist was playing a P-bass with a pick and it sounded so damned angry through the Big One, really gnarly and aggressive but tons of bottom too. Alex

[quote name='Dropzone' post='414195' date='Feb 19 2009, 01:11 PM']Anyone prepared to say which of these provide the loudest and smallest bang per buck ;-)[/quote] It's not a combo! Just bear in mind that a heavier and thus cheaper head plus a lightweight cab will be louder and less expensive than a combo whose total weight is less but whose single-lift weight is greater. How much effort is it really to plug in a speaker lead? Alex

[quote name='bremen' post='414207' date='Feb 19 2009, 01:16 PM']Had you considered making them active? Built-in crossover>class D power amps = idiot proof[/quote] I have but that ups the cost significantly. I do intend to put some cunning protection on the horn to stop that getting blown up whilst the 12" should be so damn loud that it'll be tough to break. Going active is definitely something for the future with all the models. Alex

[quote name='Adee' post='414187' date='Feb 19 2009, 01:08 PM']I'd keep your product range as small and simple as possible.[/quote] I'm with you on that, hence thinking about removing the 2x12"s from the selection. But the PA gear opens up a whole other market sector and although there's some very nice stuff out there there isn't much that combines a reasonable price with high output, good response and low weight. [quote name='Adee' post='414187' date='Feb 19 2009, 01:08 PM']Realistically what is the waiting time for a cab at the moment?[/quote] Should be getting a batch completed mid-March which will catch up with the waiting list and leave a few spare. Alex

[quote name='bremen' post='414138' date='Feb 19 2009, 12:39 PM']And should the worms be crossed over 2nd or 3rd order?[/quote] Either way is fine, as long as your worms are phase coherent. Alex

[quote name='Boneless' post='414096' date='Feb 19 2009, 12:04 PM']...lightweight, maybe, but CUMBERSOME cabs (the Big One is... a big one )[/quote] You're certainly welcome to your opinion on many aspects but I think anyone would struggle to call my cabs cumbersome (especially in capitals!) if they'd encountered one in person! The Compact is so slender you can carry it in one hand like a suitcase whilst the Big One only lives up to its name in sound - it is smaller than most 4x10"s, you can walk through a doorway with it without having to go sideways, and is an easy carry in two hands and fine for short distances in one hand. Alex

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='414016' date='Feb 19 2009, 11:08 AM']Which was probably primarily driven (no pun intended!) by an entirely practical consideration; Stability. Your vertically aligned stack is no good if it's laying on its side (or worse, face down) on the stage because it fell over![/quote] No, definitely not. The original reason is that the valve amps were wide so the cabs were made equally wide. A vertically stacked pair of 2x10"s is not in the least bit unstable. Alex

It's not comb filtering that is the big problem, it is lack of dispersion, i.e. beaming! Eighteen Sound are good enough to give both on and 45 deg off-axis plots for their speakers. I just picked one of their tens at random and their 21" woofer. The size of a 4x10" array is similar to that of a 21" speaker (actually slightly larger width/height though smaller in cone area) and thus the difference between on and off-axis response will be similar. So firstly, see attached on and off-axis for a single 10". Response stays within a few dB up to 1kHz, then diverges until its 10dB down (10% power or half volume) by 2kHz. Now look at the 21"s plot - try to ignore the peaky on-axis curve, what matters is the difference between on and off-axis. By 400Hz it's more than a few dB apart and then by 1kHz it's almost 10dB apart. Above 1kHz it gets really erratic as well (that's probably the result of comb filtering of cone break-up modes emanating from different points on the cone). A 4x10" array's off-axis output would look much more like this than than of a single 10" whilst a vertical stack of 10"s would match the single 10" in the horizontal plane. Alex

[quote name='chris_b' post='413897' date='Feb 19 2009, 08:54 AM']This is another example of science vs ears. In the real world, has the use of 4x12's, 8x10's and 4x10's over the last 50 years really been a problem? The fact that these cabs have been successfully and continuously used by all types of music from Status Quo and Metallica to Victor Wooten and Stanley Clark says it all. The bottom line is know the science if you want but you [i]can[/i] believe your ears, and the ears of others.[/quote] As soon as you have decent monitors and a decent FOH PA then the dispersion of your cab becomes far less relevant, hence the status quo being how it is. In fact I've seen Steve Harris of Iron Maiden say that he loves his 4x12" cabs because they are so directional - he uses four of them stacking on top and side by side - so he can hear himself really loud if he stands in front of them without the rest of the band being annoyed by their output. It isn't science vs ears at all. Ears agree if they bother to listen properly. Alex

[quote name='gilmour' post='413835' date='Feb 19 2009, 01:22 AM']THe only company I can think of that mass manufactured cabs with smaller speakers (more appropriate for mid range) was Trace Elliot. With their Bright Box. I have no idea whether or not they had any sort of crossover built in, and they weren't vertically aligned so not exactly what Bill was talking about. It's a shame that they are pretty rare, as it would be interesting to test them alongside a 1x15 or 2x15. I suspect the results would be superior to the traditional 2x10 and 1x15 combo.[/quote] I believe the Bright Box does indeed have a highpass filter built in. I 100% guarantee that it will work far better if you stick it on its side, though it'll look silly and may fall over... [quote name='skankdelvar' post='413853' date='Feb 19 2009, 02:33 AM']Gen question, not a flame: Why [i]is[/i] vertical better than horizontal? If two speakers are adjacent, surely the comb filtering is going to occur irrespective of their alignment? If I drop two stones into a pond, the ripples will intersect at some point, wherever I drop the stones. You could also argue that in a 4x10, 2 pairs of speakers are, in fact, mounted vertically. Does that offset the same two pairs that are mounted horizontally? If this is the case, would 2 diagonally mounted speakers be 50% better than horizontal but 50% worse than vertical? Also, on that basis, is there an optimum space between two adjacent speakers? Or would it simply be better to use only one speaker to avoid comb filtering altogether?[/quote] The comb filtering is definitely the secondary issue for bass guitar as opposed to hi-fi. Focus first on midrange dispersion: Dispersion of a source at a given frequency is inversely proportional to the size of that source in the axis you're considering. So a tall thin source will have narrow vertical dispersion but broad horizontal dispersion. A squat wide source will have broad vertical dispersion but narrow horizontal dispersion. Take a snapshot of where your bandmates' and audiences' ears are and they usually lie within a narrow vertical distribution but a broad horizontal distribution. Now if you could use a small source full-stop then making sure it was tall and thin wouldn't matter but if your midrange is coming from your woofers then to get high SPL you need quite a lot of area, hence a vertical column of tens is better than a 2x2 arrangement. If you're using a single fifteen then off-axis response won't be brilliant but it'll be better than a 2x2 arrangement of tens (or eights). If you use a fifteen plus a midrange driver then you are succeeding in using a small source for the midrange so you get good dispersion in all directions. Alex

Did I mention that I'm working a really nice compact PA system? 1x12"+horn tops using the 3012HO and a big horn with very powerful compression driver and steep low frequency crossover to give good off-axis response, and then use the Big Sub singly or in multiples for the bottom. Use one of those new-ish Xti amps or similar with built in DSP filters and you'd have a fantastic sounding and seriously loud system for not too much money. Alex

[quote name='Merton' post='413606' date='Feb 18 2009, 08:45 PM']I want to try the Big Deep One. That may suit my tonal tastes better than the Big One. But in a band situation I can imagine the big One being the daddy [/quote] The 3015LF sounds nice on its own but get it into a band situation and the lack of upper midrange really pins you into a dub corner. [quote name='johnnylager' post='413612' date='Feb 18 2009, 08:49 PM']Alex postulated the idea of 2 running together the other night - I've only just finished cleaning myself up.[/quote] Having now used the Big One in anger I now realise that a pair of them would be beyond stupid! "Roll up, roll up, get your perforated ear drums here!" [quote name='d-basser' post='413643' date='Feb 18 2009, 09:40 PM']when I have pennies (and finally get a gig again) I would love one (or two) of your cabs. What would you recommend coupling with my Fafner for rock, punk and metal. I dont have a car so I think the big one 'd be out as I am likely to be using spare space in band mates cars or a taxi. Would a compact or a big baby be a good place to start with the possibility of adding a second compact or a big baby sub if I decide I am a little insane?[/quote] I think for many bass players the Compact is the cab to go for, especially if you don't have a car. I do think that the Big One is well worth the extra money, the near flat frequency response, amazing off-axis output and the incredible maximum SPL gives such an effortlessly huge, punchy and clear sound however tough the acoustics are and how dense the band mix is. Be interesting to see how portable it feels once I've added wheels and another handle. It isn't as big as the name would suggest but the Compact does feel really small when you'r ecarrying it in one hand (looks big on stage though!) Right now I don't know how loud the Big Baby will seem in reality - the sensitivity is lower than that of the other two cabs but if it exceeds my expectations like the Big One did then it may be the prime choice for many players. We shall see! Alex

He's much more pleasant to listen to when he's just laying down a groove. I think one burst of his slappity-dappity stuff is enough for any gig! Mind you, have you heard his brother Reggie Wooten doing the same on guitar? It's as aurally enjoyable as a herd of tone-deaf and nervous cats attempting to simultaneously break the land speed record and establish a new record for largest feline chorus singing Handel's Messiah. Alex

All Trace Elliott 15"s are not created equal. The GS112 doesn't actually go that low but it has a pretty fat sounding midbass hump - however ask for deeper bottom and it will seriously struggle, but then again so will many cabs. Alex