alexclaber

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1444777206' post='2886024']I also think it can be a bit of a comfort blanket, I've run mic's before and not actually put anything through the PA, happy drummist and no one notices. Don't tell anyone though [/quote] No substitute for placebo effect! Lee Sklar and the 'Producer Switch': http://www.bassplayer.com/artists/1171/lee-sklar-reflects-on-his-career/48067

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1444719948' post='2885227']Back line with vocals only going through the PA is a great solution because it is simple, so unless you have a sound engineer it is the easiest system for a band to control [/quote] I've always been a fan of this approach in smaller venues. Acoustic drums sound so good compared to basic micing through an underpowered PA. The sticking point is often the drummer having too light a right foot and/or an overdamped kick drum. The drummer in my last band had two kits, one smaller shells with a 22" kick and one bigger shells with a 26" kick - we'd just bring the kit that suited the size of the venue. A 26" kick drum with minimal damping can slam through a BIG space. And small PA systems sound much better on vocals if they're not dealing with other instruments, especially lower frequency ones that push the mid-bass drivers hard. The other common sticking point is the miserable dispersion from guitar amps, especially closed back 4x12" cabs. But I have a solution for that...

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1444407107' post='2883061'] Big read but shall answer your questions: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/240410-barefaced-retro-two10/ [/quote] There's not actually much info in that thread, it's mostly the brave early adopters justifiably moaning about how long they had to wait! (Apologies to those few!) There's much more feedback on here if you do some googling or also on our site. A pair of Two10s should easily match most 6x10" cabs and one certainly won't be quiet.

It might not be the head but how the head interacts with the particular cabs you're using it with.

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1444226377' post='2881334']I heard both the Retro 210 and the G3 Compact recently, with an all valve Ashdown CTM-30 and an Ashdown RM-800. If you want HiFi, I reckon you should probably look to the G3 Compact.[/quote] The Super Compact is certainly accurate within its design bandwidth (37Hz-4kHz) but it isn't hi-fi in the full-range studio monitor sense, like the Big Baby 2. And the Super Midget is a great alternative to the Big Baby 2 if you want that full-range accurate sound but need the smallest cab possible.

[quote name='Safetyman' timestamp='1439409203' post='2842669'] Chris b, Distortion of the signal ( clipping )means ,effectively, that the speaker cone gets not one, but two commands from the amp at nearly the same time. This causes heat to build-up as the cone ends up not moving in either direction, due to the two opposing signals it receives all the time it's in clipping mode. As the cone is a piston, moving vast amounts of air which keep it cool, it loses the ability to move air. This makes it overheat, leading to it's destruction. If you like, effectively like a short-circuit in electrical wiring. Cheers [/quote] Just in case anyone reads this, the following bit is 100% incorrect: "Distortion of the signal ( clipping )means ,effectively, that the speaker cone gets not one, but two commands from the amp at nearly the same time. This causes heat to build-up as the cone ends up not moving in either direction, due to the two opposing signals it receives all the time it's in clipping mode." NOT TRUE AT ALL!!! However, this is kind of correct: "As the cone is a piston, moving vast amounts of air which keep it cool, it loses the ability to move air." It isn't actually the air that the cone moves which keeps it cools, it's the smaller amount of air which is pumped through the motor (the bit at the back with the magnet structure etc) that helps cool the voice coil. But as soon as the woofer cone stops pistoning back and forth whilst still making loud sound (i.e lots of mids and treble, no low frequencies) then the air pump cooling the voice coil stops and things overheat quickly.

Well the lead is probably the most likely to be left behind or break, so on those grounds...

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1442929310' post='2870630']chris_b, If I had never seen the length of the Barefaced Handle Caper I would agree.[/quote] The funny thing is that we still see those exact same handles we used to use on tons of bass and guitar amps and cabs made by a huge variety of notable manufacturers and I've yet to hear a ruckus about any of them!

When you go to big gigs, many of the huge touring PA systems use neo drivers throughout and class D amps are almost as popular. It isn't the magnet material or solidstate amplifier topology that matters, it's how good the design is. Now if you're talking all-valve amps, with valve output stages and output transformers, they do indeed behave in ways that can't be perfectly simulated by anything else (though some fancy modelling comes pretty close). Nothing to stop you combining all-valve amps with lightweight cabs though! It is however hard to downsize significantly with valve amps because even the biggest are only 400W and most are less - and the smaller your speaker stack, the more power it needs to get loud.

What's your current rig? I'd use pretty much the same stuff for metal as funk, but funk can vary hugely in loudness and tone!

Yes, I suspect so! The Ten2 isn't like a normal 2x10" cab because it's sealed, very small and has low sensitivity speakers, so it won't play as loud as you'd expect from a typical 2x10". But doubling up should make a big difference.

How about the AI head with a louder cab?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442484241' post='2867248'] I think the folder at the bottom left hand side puts it all into perspective. [/quote] That's what I noticed too!

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1442332800' post='2866129'] How does the displacement compare to a gen 2 Midget? Would they play nicely together? [/quote] Displacement is around 20% less. Not a pairing I've tried but they're very different designs, almost opposite ends of the nice bass guitar speaker spectrum!

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1442414669' post='2866801'] I must try the RH750 again. I had one and didn't get on with it, but I've liked every demo I've heard. So I'm guessing it didn't get on well with the cabs I had at the time - I had a pair of Mark Bass Club 121 cabs.[/quote] What I've noticed about both the RH450 and RH750 is that they have a very distinctive feel - there's quite a lot of compression and stuff going on in there. For me they didn't respond to my hands the way I wanted them to - it sounded more like a recording of me than me playing live. However some bassists really like what they do so it's definitely a personal preference thing.

Is your pedalboard bigger than this? If not, it clearly doesn't need downsizing!

Pete, it's like you're asking for a vehicle to move you, your band mates and your gear in, quickly, safely and economically, but demanding it's a vintage sports car! Understandably people are trying to suggest large modern powerful diesel estate cars/MPVs.

Pete, I have to say that the idea of using a 48 band graphic is no more insane than insisting that the 'flat response' cab you're after has to be both a 2x10" and non-boutique! Especially as you won't explain why! Markbass, AI, EA and Tecamp all have amp models that come close enough to flat response.

The limiting factor is the speakers. The kind of woofers you need to make a suitably high output cab with accurate response are bloody expensive. It's not like computers or electronics where technological progress and mass production can reduce the cost massively, it's like high performance car engines - expensive materials, expensive casting/forging/machining, precise assembly, etc. Even with modern manufacturing technology it's still far more expensive to manufacture such high precision high quality components than what's normally in MI gear. The business model of the big players doesn't allow the production costs to be that high - and also much of the industry is built on heritage so if you start trying to copy innovators then you risk damaging your own brand value.

[quote name='tbonepete' timestamp='1442074950' post='2864270']I'd have thought it would be less expensive to do no colouring on the amp, and design a cab that also didn't colour the sound (obviously after r and d costs etc) [/quote] The audio industry has spend untold billions over the last century trying to achieve perfect response (frequency/transient/polar/etc) from amplifiers and loudspeakers. Quite a lot of amps get pretty damned close. No speakers do. But the ones that come closest are incredibly expensive (costing similar amounts to nice cars or houses) and extremely large. And that's talking about the entire world of hi-fi, studio monitoring and pro-sound, as well as MI amplification. It is FAR easier to make amps and cabs with colouration. Trying to remove colouration is what hugely increases the cost of R&D and design and materials and manufacturing.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1442007917' post='2863853'] I can usually use TC Electronic RS210 x 1 for rehearsing with bands. I've just signed up to two bands from a hiatus of mainly playing learning and playing guitar, but back into bass full swing soon. As I've got a VW Beetle a 1x10 that can handle a rehearsal would make my life easier! I've used Ampeg 1x15 combos before for rehearsals (at the room) with a 3-4 piece band and had no probs. These bands won't be any louder. [/quote] Sounds like it'll be fine!

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1442043432' post='2863954'] A true (or as close as can be) flat response cab will have a dedicated bass driver, mid driver and possibly a tweeter. [/quote] It won't, you can definitely make a flat* response 2x10", with the right 10"s crossing to a good tweeter at a low enough frequency - the EA NL210 and CX210 are both decent examples of that. Both are also definitely 'boutique' bass cabs. 3-way allows you to use a wider variety of woofers and use the crossover and mid driver to sort the response through the mids. 2-way needs either very specialist drivers or a huge tweeter that can cross over very low. * It's all relative and I don't think flat is a good word - accurate is better.

To expand on that, if you'd expect to use a 1x12", 2x10" or 1x15" cab/combo for the practice then I suspect you'd be fine but if you'd normally use something bigger then you might be asking too much (unless the bigger rig was just cruising). Once you push into cone overdrive it's pretty obnoxiously loud for something so small but running clean it's more restrained. Hope that helps!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1441984079' post='2863550'] How would this stand up to a 3-4 person band practice?[/quote] Completely depends on the band, the room, and the tone you want! No problem with some. Don't even bother trying with others.

I thought this was going to be one of those questions like I get about Barefaced cabs: "it's so light, is it safe to sit on it?" (The answer is YES!) Stuff only tends to appreciate in value when you can't get hold of anything like it new and the secondhand supply is limited - e.g. classic cars. But good musical gear tends to hold its value pretty well after the initial 'no longer brand new' depreciation. Any brand with a good reputation for reliability will hold its value better and any brand/item which is known for being unreliable will depreciate more badly.