alexclaber

[quote name='jakesbass' post='345825' date='Dec 4 2008, 07:18 PM']...bass players that express preference for slightly smaller speakers, generally 10s or 12s... ...You may successfully argue that technically, a 15 [i]can[/i] produce the desired characteristics, your potential downfall is that in my experience they also display unfavourable characteristics that DB players do not like.[/quote] The big challenge with doing anything different is the marketing, not the engineering! Here's something to get your head around - and this is the fundamental challenge! The nominal diameter of a loudspeaker is one of the least important characteristics describing how it sounds. The concept I'm considering here is taking a very high-end hi-fi speaker approach and applying it to live instrument amplification. So if you listened to a really fantastic hi-fi you would neither know nor care how large the woofers were. [quote name='jakesbass' post='345825' date='Dec 4 2008, 07:18 PM']The ultimate judgement is the sound. So I would say use a research process that starts from a perspective of what sounds DB players want to hear as a minimum standard, and what do they dislike.[/quote] Minimum standard is easy to achieve - but more dislikes would be useful to know. There is a very clear reason why double bassists don't like 15" bass guitar cabs and that is because most of them are particularly poorly designed (or not designed at all...) Most cabs are too small for the speaker they contain and this issue is exacerbated with a larger speaker. And then if you're trying to make a cab cheap enough and light enough for a double bassist to buy it then you're unlikely to put a big enough magnet on the speaker to give you strong midrange response. Therefore most 15" cabs you'll have heard sound boomy (undersized box) and muddy (lack of magnet strength). That's an over simplification but it is the essence of the problem. Back to the 2-way open-baffle concept, most of your tone would actually be coming from the smaller midrange speaker - the 15" woofer would solely be concerned with producing the lows, and these lows would be produced as an immediate velocity wave, not the usual pressure wave which transforms into a velocity wave. Very interesting comments from everyone - I shall keep working on this and if there's anyone near me do get in touch to test the prototype if/when it's done! Alex

[quote name='guyl' post='344926' date='Dec 3 2008, 11:17 PM']I wouldn't be too dismissive of a 15" speaker. Isn't the "box" on an upright acting as a bass speaker anyway? And that's about 2ft wide.[/quote] Exactly! When you play a note on the double bass most of the sound comes from the front and back of the body. There is additional lower frequency output from the f-holes and also high frequency percussives and noise from the strings. So in an ideal world your amplifer should emulate this radiation pattern to get as natural a sound as possible. The weird thing about this 15" design I'm pondering is that the speaker isn't in a normal box - it's simply a speaker on a baffle, but with the baffle wrapping around a bit to increase the apparent size. This open-baffle concept gives a very quick fast sound with few spurious resonances from the box. Also the speaker acts as a velocity source, not a pressure source, just like the front and back of the double bass. I'm then thinking of having a top mounted dipole midrange which would fire upwards (and downwards) giving the player a very clear sound but giving the band and audience a more mellow sound. The battle with such a design is to get enough sensitivity but I think it has potential. Alex

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='343940' date='Dec 3 2008, 12:10 PM']Who the f*** are Rage Against The Machine anyway? Its probably that horrible shouty music all about goblins, crows and shitting in a nuns mouth.[/quote] Yeah, exactly... Alex

[quote name='guyl' post='343651' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:06 PM']What's your plan Alex?[/quote] Plan A is 1x10" with a forward-firing 5" mid plus a rear-firing 5" mid with L-pads on both mids and different crossover points to give near-omnidirectional response but allow you to control how the midrange is being dispersed. Possibly also an upward firing tweeter. The logic behind this is to match the radiation pattern of a double bass as closely as possible. Plan B is a dipole 15" plus a dipole mid. This crazy idea only produces low frequencies in front and behind the speaker - to either side there is a null where front and back output cancel out. Thus if you place this cab directly beside you and your bass there will be no low frequency energy from the cabinet feeding back into the double bass. It will also produce fairly omnidirectional output above the bass region so you get a closer match of on-axis output and total radiated output regardless of the acoustic space you're in. If you were looking to produce the perfect double bass cab regardless of portability or cost I believe this would be the way to do it but it is both large and power-hungry. Alex

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='342847' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:34 AM']I'm all about "stickin' it to the man", but obviously not so hard that he'll stop paying me.[/quote] Exactly. I wouldn't say my music is political but it definitely isn't not political, if you see what I mean? I'd love to see a better and fairer system than a capitalist democracy but I'll be damned if I can think of one that will actually work! Communism would be great if it wasn't for people messing it up... Alex

And is feedback ever a problem? Alex

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply! Interesting that you need both VL110s to be loud enough - do you play any gigs where one cab is sufficient? Alex

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='342947' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:54 PM']I'm disappointed [/quote] I didn't think you played double bass... Alex

Have had some bright ideas recently about a better cab solution for double bassists and am curious to find out what everyone currently uses, what they like about their current rig and what its limitations are. Would be good to know what amps you use and also what contexts you play your upright bass in (big band, piano trio, swing/jump, etc) Thanks! Alex

[quote name='eude' post='342915' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:29 PM']Now this does sound interesting. I play mainly acoustic stuff at the moment, a cab like that might be just the ticket...[/quote] The downside of the upright bass cab I'm working on will be the sensitivity and power handling and thus the max SPL - it will not be a loud cab but if you put a loud cab next to a double bass you just get feedback! It could work very nicely with other acoustic instruments buts I'd be very wary of using it with an electric bass unless there are no drummers present... Alex

[quote name='bremen' post='342926' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:36 PM']Whoah! Sounds like a right pig.[/quote] It's not that bad, in fact it's far better than most bass guitar 12"s, that's why practically every neo 12" you can buy contains it or a slight variant upon in. But if you're willing to give up a bit of treble extension and off-axis response then the 3015 does everything better - if you can persuade people to buy 15" cabs again! [quote name='bremen' post='342926' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:36 PM']So what's the one you're eyeing up?[/quote] The 3012HO and 3012LF which will effectively be 12" versions of my current 15" drivers. They won't be cheap but everything I've heard so far suggests they'll be very good. Expect a small 1x12", a large 1x12" plus mid, a large 2x12" plus mid and possibly a compact 2x12". Alex

[quote name='bremen' post='342888' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:02 PM']Deltalite 11 2512 look good...?[/quote] No, not really. Vas is too high, Fs too low, Xmax too short and there's a big hump in the upper midrange. Needs a big box to get smooth low frequency response but then it doesn't have the Xmax to take advantage of the low Fs. [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='342906' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:16 PM']Is it going to be wedge shaped? [/quote] No, it'll be like The Compact in shape but smaller, and will have dual midrange drivers with different crossover points and unusual placement to give near omnidirectional output just like an unamplified double bass. Target weight of 20lbs and price of £350. Alex

[quote name='david_l_perry' post='339345' date='Nov 28 2008, 10:34 AM']Time is the only factor that will tell if the strap handles hold up to life on the road, they are lightweight cabs after all.[/quote] Indeed. These strap handles consist of a tempered steel strap through which is tethered through holes in each end by the bolt and fixing and then there is a rubber (polymer) sleeve which makes it comfortable. So any failure would require the steel itself to give way which seems pretty unlikely as it won't be under any loads that could be above its fatigue limit. My wheels, metal corners and feet arrived yesterday to mobilise The Big One and make the Vintage look old school. I'm also working on a very small and light design for upright bassists as there's a lot of lightweight amps out there but not a lot of choice when it comes to reasonably priced cabs with the kind of polar response an upright needs. Initial investigations are proving promising! Alex

[quote name='Mr.T' post='341102' date='Nov 30 2008, 01:30 PM']I am now thinking about changing the whole rig, as the advice so far seems to be something like "Go for more power and less speakers".[/quote] The more power and fewer speakers thing only works if the speakers can handle the power without overexcursion - that knocks all 2x10" cabs bar Acmes off the list and almost all 1x15"s. Ignore the 'power rating' claimed on the cab, it's the thermally limited power handling which is usually far greater than the excursion limited power handling. Alex

[quote name='johnnylager' post='339552' date='Nov 28 2008, 01:13 PM']Old sound engineers trick - take the top off an SM58 = instant SM57. Same mike for bass & vocals.[/quote] Good point - an excellent way to check if you prefer the sound of the 57! Alex

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='339531' date='Nov 28 2008, 12:49 PM'][i]A Bass Player Writes:[/i] I'm one of life's natural baritones, so this was an interesting post. But when I go on Shure's own website, they describe the SM58 as a 'Vocal' mic and the SM57 as an 'Instrument' mic which can also be used for vocals. Comparing the spec sheets, the difference between them seems to be (i) 1.5dBV (ii) 40Hz (SM57) -v- 50Hz (SM58) (iii) 14g in weight Would I be able to hear the difference at, say, a pub gig?[/quote] Don't look at the specs, look at the response plots: Although both mics use the same capsule the difference in surround and windshield makes a significant difference in response. What I found pertinant as a baritone was that there was less boom in the lows (notice how the curves differ below 200Hz) and the harshness I found in the lower treble from the 58 wasn't there with the 57 (note that the presence peak is quite a lot higher). I AB'd both these mics a number of times with the Beta 58 we have at the rehearsal studio (I already owned a 58 and my saxophonist uses a 57). I was really surprised how much better the SM57 worked with my voice - the Beta 58 had more clarity on the top than the SM58 (you can hear those extra kHz of extension) but the 57 had much more clarity through the midrange and I sat in the mix much better. It wasn't just me that noticed the difference - my bandmates were amazed! However I should point out every voice is different so it might not work well with all baritones but it certainly does for me! Another thing that makes a difference is that you can actually get closer to the mic capsule (i.e. more gain before feedback) because the windshield is smaller - that does increase the risk of pops and sibilance but live that trade-off seems to work just fine for me. Alex

[quote name='Mr.T' post='339396' date='Nov 28 2008, 11:10 AM']It sounds like you are saying 'big but light'.[/quote] Either 'big but light' or get a new amp as well as new cabs. My suggestions: SMX250 into The Vintage SMX250 into The Compact x2 Hartke LH500 into The Compact Markbass LMII into The Compact The Vintage is a BIG cab so if you have a bad back I'd be wary of it - it's light for its side but it's not much lighter than your 1x15" and it's quite a lot more cumbersome. If one of The Compacts sounds great to you but just doesn't go loud enough then try it with a more powerful head and if you can't find a more powerful head that you like the sound of then add a second cab. I've seen the LH500 for about £200 so for your budget you could have a pretty awesome rig, ignoring what you get back from selling your current (rather nice despite the weight) gear. Alex

[quote name='Mr.T' post='339359' date='Nov 28 2008, 10:41 AM']I could spend my hard earned cash and end up with not so good a sound. And after all 'sounding good' is what playing the bass is all about.[/quote] Quite right! If you go lightweight but stay with a rig of similar size (and the same head) then you can have great tone and loudness. If you go for a smaller lightweight rig then you'll need more power to get that tone and loudness and you'll have to be very careful in your choice of speakers to ensure they can move enough air to get that fat tone at high SPL. Try to skimp on either the cabs or the amp and going lightweight could also mean lightweight tone! Alex

[quote name='david_l_perry' post='339295' date='Nov 28 2008, 09:52 AM']Your cab looks the exact same width as the Omni 15(standard flightcase rack width) and I had no problems wheeling it through any doors.[/quote] It's 21" wide so about the same - certainly that critical amount narrower than standard 4x10" or 6x10" cabs! [quote name='david_l_perry' post='339295' date='Nov 28 2008, 09:52 AM']I have now joined the ranks of the masses using a pair of small neo 1x12's, and genuinely could not be happier.[/quote] Non-neo I believe! [quote name='david_l_perry' post='339295' date='Nov 28 2008, 09:52 AM']I know I have said it before Alex, but I would ditch the strap handles entirely....over a period of time they have a tendency to start to crap out.[/quote] In what way? I've been through all the options so many times and any handle that requires a hole through the cab screws up the bracing and thus has to be a very stiff structure itself to not weaken the cab even more - so you end up with a less stiff and heavier cab. Feedback thus far is that the straps handles work fine because the cab is so light. [quote name='eude' post='339296' date='Nov 28 2008, 09:54 AM']Do you have any intention of doing anything a little smaller, say based on 10 or 12 inch drivers in the future?[/quote] Only if I can get good enough drivers! It looks like there may be some 12" models by late '09 but no sign of anything 10" sized on the horizon. Alex

[quote name='Mr.T' post='339262' date='Nov 28 2008, 09:18 AM']I seemed to be loud enough, but with nothing in reserve... when I turned the amp up a bit the speaker started to sound farty! My overall sound was also 'thin'.[/quote] I suspect you're pushing the speaker beyond Xmax hence the thinner sound and then as you go further beyond you're getting the farting sounds - however when that happens I suspect the amp is also running out of power and clipping a bit. So you don't have enough speaker power handling and you also don't have enough amp power. The Compact could handle all the power from your amp but hard to say if it would be loud enough. Two Compacts would definitely be loud enough. If I was looking to go lightweight though I'd aim to get as much SPL from each cab as possible, so I could use just one cab most or all of the time, which requires a more powerful amp (~300W). Alex

[quote name='johnnylager' post='339216' date='Nov 28 2008, 08:40 AM']Hammet played no rhythm guitar on the first 3 Metallica albums, all Hetfield layered up.[/quote] Wasn't it the first 5 Metallica albums?! Alex

Aha! Wheels, metal corners and grill cloth ordered - The Big One will soon be definitive and The Vintage is rapidly impending. Looks like it'll be 38" tall so I'll knock some depth off to make it easier to slide into the backseat of cars. And The Big One is commencing its SE tour this evening... Alex

[quote name='Delberthot' post='338674' date='Nov 27 2008, 05:25 PM']I really like the idea of hardly any controls- Ive just finished wiring the pickup on my newest Warmoth staight to the jack[/quote] Over the last few years I've gone from an active bass with 3-band EQ with switchable mids into a rack preamp with 'aural enhancer' and 4-band EQ with dual semi-parametric mids, to a passive bass into a rack preamp with no EQ other than a handful of presets. It was a slightly scary couple of leaps but I love where I've landed! Join me! Alex

[quote name='51m0n' post='338584' date='Nov 27 2008, 04:07 PM']alexclaber, how would this pair up with your cabs do you think?[/quote] I think both models would work brilliantly with my cabs - I've tried the LH500 into The Compact and the strong midrange and tight bottom of the latter works really well with the Fender/Alembic tonestack and fat warm sound of the LH500. For larger but still prudent budgets I do not believe there is a rig on the market that can even come close to the LH1000 into The Big One - 750W into a cab that can handle it comfortably (note that there are no 4x10" cabs (bar Acmes) that can handle that much sub 100Hz power), near-flat response from the cab with very punchy and clear mids and highs, so the minimal EQ and naturally smooth fat sound of the Hartke works beautifully. Total cost <£1000, total weight <80lbs, huge tone=priceless! Alex

This may not be quite as small and light as a UL110 but it does move a lot more air! ~45lbs, 29.5"x21"x16". Can replace a 6x10"! Alex