alexclaber

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433251801' post='2789395']Alex said that, not me ..... but I take your point. Good call. I'll get the Retros together in a stack again and fiddle with the frequencies about there and report back.[/quote] The other thing is the Compact doesn't have a hump in the 120Hz region like the Two10, so an alternative approach is to cut at about 120Hz and boost lower down. I know the TC head has a lot of tweakery available so if the midrange/treble tone from the Two10 is what you like then all it comes down to is tailoring the bottom end, which is a simpler thing as it really comes down to amp power and cab volume displacement and you have plenty of both.

[quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1432900738' post='2786035'] I would like to see a similar system to a cars air vent being applied to the grill of a cab, so you can in effect point some , or all of the sound at an angle up from the grill face of the front of the cab.[/quote] A nice idea but unfortunately sound doesn't work like that! Here's something like you describe: This does not fire the sound from the horn tweeters (hidden behind the louvre things) downwards, it's actually there to help horizontal dispersion. Here's how it works: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/technical/lens.htm

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433244783' post='2789253']Yeah, I get that. But my perception is, when I A/B them, that one over their sounds deeper than that one over there. Maybe its my perception of "deeper" and "lows"? Together though, they are an awesome pair.[/quote] It's probably partly your perception and partly what your TC amp is doing - they have a fairly steep roll-off in the lows.

The irony is that the Retro Two10 goes lower than the old 15" Compact. But the Compact (like its replacement the Super Compact) has more output in the ~60Hz region.

Generally it's a bad idea.

[quote name='IanA' timestamp='1431631885' post='2773506']Is that before or after you got banned??[/quote] Seeing as I've been posting on talkbass since 2001 and two weeks ago was banned for a month according to the CUP, what do you think? Well, let's do some basic maths: 14 years on talkbass is 728 weeks of reading/posting. I've been banned for 2 weeks. So the odds are approximately 350 to 1 that I read the relevant talkbass posts whilst not banned. The ban is one month long. I'd be interested to see a list of commercial users on talkbass who've been on there as long as me and have never been banned through falling foul of the CUP - it would be a VERY short list...

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1431614802' post='2773252']It's only incredibly easy if the excess bass perfectly matches the curve of the tone control. If you have a boom at 100Hz, you're a bit stuck.[/quote] Most bass knobs on amps are pretty broad shelving controls so you'd have to have a pretty extreme peak in response for the bass knob to fail to help. Then again, if you had a sharp boom at 100Hz you could just pull your cab away from the nearest wall until it's 2-3' from it, which will cause a notch in response at about 100Hz (due to the boundary reflection being out of phase with the direct sound). I've read too many posts over on talkbass from players who only play in very professional function bands where volumes are carefully controlled and everyone knows how to play around each other and therefore have no clue what life can be like in a loud guitar-driven band for a bass player, especially playing venues with poor PA systems. Molan, I get the impression you've played enough to realise that not everyone can be in bands with more SPL-control but it's easy to forget how different the output requirements can be for two bassists within one genre (or even playing/dep'ing in the same band) let alone in hugely varied contexts.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1431541979' post='2772456']You can always add bass, but you can't so easily get rid of it...[/quote] This is the absolute opposite of reality! It is incredibly easy to get rid of bass (turn the bass knob to the left) but impossible to add more than the limit determined by the volume displacement of a loudspeaker.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1431471959' post='2771806']It always sounds a bit Spinal Tap to me but maybe I'm just [b]OLD[/b]![/quote] Fixed that for you!

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1431338899' post='2770069']I notice you keep saying your cabs are 'louder' than others from quite a few manufacturers. Knowing you're an exponent of listening to things in the 'real world' does this mean you've run proper tests of your cabs versus the competition? [/quote] It's based on two things: 1. Lots of customers (and non-customers borrowing cabs) telling me how much louder the cabs are than other stuff they've used - that's the real world bit. 2. Us working with the manufacturers who make the OEM speakers in most of our competitors' cabs and therefore knowing what's possible from the speakers in their cabs - that's the science bit. And obviously I've used various cabs but my experiences are very limited compared to the feedback of 1000+ customers, some of whom are doing hundreds of gigs a year. If anyone wants to lend us some cabs to test we're happy to do that too, but an accurate test will take some time and effort to plan and execute fairly and reliably.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1431294160' post='2769804'] Yep - stop being a wimp The CN212 is in a different league - Near the top of the premiership vs mid table championship. . . [/quote] The OTB500 into one Super Compact will be almost as loud as the same amp into the CN212. Into two it'll be louder. Tone is a matter of personal preference but the other posts here suggest that the "mid table championship" frequently beat the "premiership" on that front too.

Nice T-shirt!

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1431104383' post='2767881']4ohms! If you can get a single BB2 working at 4ohms (and the added extra headroom) i'll withdraw my post. Using two BB2's won't be accepted as answer, [/quote] We can't, the voicecoil won't do what we want as a 4 ohm version. More headroom though? Bigger amp! Or an FR800 because that's already got 800W of real power built-in.

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1431103494' post='2767865'] Here i go again... I want... i mean, WE want a Barefaced Super10T!!! Full range, flat response, great low-end reproduction, 4 ohms, front port, vertical 2x10" drivers plus a great tweeter!![/quote] Apart from the impedance this already exists: It's called the Big Baby 2. Seriously though, why would a 2x10" version of that be better?

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1431091885' post='2767744']My head hurts, but the EAW label must mean good things [/quote] You get lower even order harmonic distortion as the motor/suspension asymmetry cancels each other out. It's something I've been thinking of doing in a larger sub too.

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1431082570' post='2767589']ACME 2x12"tastic! (?)[/quote] No, not impulse compensated. Like this:

Good point! Right now I'm leaning towards a 4x12" with our 12XN550 drivers and I think we're going to try it with half the drivers reverse mounted... And probably offer passive and active versions.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1430910860' post='2765784']That's a perfect design, IMO. Rod is one of the few people posting on professional audio on the internet whose advice is solid. I'd prefer the second order crossover option for use with a midrange driver. Apart from that - bang-on.[/quote] I've spent so much time on his site over the years! I was honoured to find a link from his site to ours recently when looking through our website analytics - and then I spotted his new bass amp design. Very well thought out indeed!

And the TKS 1126 also uses the same woofer as the fEarful/fEarless 12"s and as we used to use.

The F112 uses the same woofer as (and a similar midrange driver to) those in our previous Gen 2 Big Baby model, so that's a useful comparison.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1430840601' post='2765072']As it happens, my cabs are Barefaced cabs, made by one of the science people.[/quote] I'm a bass player, songwriter & lyricist and (bad) singer.

We designed the Two10 so you'd get that same superior dispersion when horizontal as you'd normally only get when vertical (it has a crossover in there). However if I wanted something punchy I'd rather use our 12XN cabs than the warmer softer sounding 10CR models.

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1430826832' post='2764886']I'll probably wait for the Gen 4 options, you know the Tolex finish ones... You heard it here first [/quote] Ha! I can't see us changing from tolex on the Retro 10 cabs and acrylic coating on the 12XN cabs. Or 'Generation 4' turning up for a decade odd, unless we stop being able to get certain components. [quote name='largo' timestamp='1430826832' post='2764886']One other question, in my naïve little mind a component that "moves" a lot will wear out more quickly. And my interpretation is that the latest BF speaker shift more air by moving a lot more on the z-axis than other equivalent speakers. I'm sure some engineer will come along and tell me I'm wrong.[/quote] Yes you're definitely wrong! Our speakers are actually designed to move a huge amount. Most bass guitar speakers aren't designed to move so far but often end up doing so (with high levels of distortion and a loss of punch) and therefore will wear out much sooner due to over-excursion damage.

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1429971514' post='2756834'] How about an isobaric 8 X 10? [URL=http://s970.photobucket.com/user/gelfin5959/media/Iso%208%20x%2010_zpss3naeell.jpg.html][IMG]http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae181/gelfin5959/Iso%208%20x%2010_zpss3naeell.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [/quote] Isobaric is a strange thing which dates from the era when speaker parameters meant that they needed big boxes to go low. The solution to this was putting one speaker behind another with a small air gap between them. What this does is double the moving mass whilst keeping the radiating area the same (because the back of one and the front of the other don't radiate) so you can put them in a box with half the rear volume and get the same -3dB point - but at a cost of losing 3dB of sensitivity compared to one driver on its own. It only works properly with true woofers - as soon as you run them into the midrange weird stuff happens as the back woofer fires through the front woofer. At high power the front woofer will get hotter than the back woofer (unless its magnet is on the outside in which case the reverse will happen) so they'll stop working in synchrony and things will get weird in the lows too. So if you had a 1x12 with 96dB sensitivity an isobaric 2x12" would be 93dB whilst a normal 2x12" would be 99dB. The isobaric would be about 2/3 of the size of the 1x12" because although the rear enclosure volume is halved you have to fit the extra woofer and isobaric air space in too. If you're happy with it sounding very coloured then you could run that 12" up into the mids but if you want accurate sound it would need a midrange driver crossed over very low (so probably at least an 8") which makes the cab even bigger! A triumph of marketing over design... Nowadays if you went to a loudspeaker designer and said that you wanted a cab which was smaller than your current 1x12" but went as deep and had as much output (but needed twice the power) then they'd design you a speaker with a bigger voice coil (for more power handling), a heavier cone and stiffer suspension. You could then put that in a smaller box and throw more power at it, exactly like an isobaric design but without needing to fit a second speaker in there.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1430590746' post='2762964']In which case the only noticeable benefit would be when it is place vertical with the filtered driver at the bottom, putting the full range closer to ear level. [/quote] Exactly - which only makes a significant difference when you're standing very close to the cab.