alexclaber

[quote name='bassman2790' post='137464' date='Feb 10 2008, 09:08 AM']Playing my Yamaha BB415 through my recently acquired Laney B1 (1500 watts into 4 ohms - bridged mode) into a Marshall MBC410 (4x10 + HF compression driver) I was very impressed with the clarity and the punch of the 10's but noticed a big drop-off if I played below a C on my low B. Putting this down to the lower frequencies being beyond the spec of the 10's, I thought adding a 1x15 would improve matters. In bi-amp mode the amp will put out 750 watts per channel at 2 ohms, 550 watts at 4 ohms and 350 watts at 8 ohms. 2 ohm drivers are pretty rare so I'm looking for a 4 ohm 15" driver that can handle around 750 watts but I'm struggling to find a suitable driver for the job. Also looking at the specs of the Eminence and Celestion drivers, I notice that the usable ranges don't seem to go below 35Hz, still not low enough for a low B which is about 31Hz. I've no idea how ERB owners get on with their low F#'s Can anyone help me out? Cheers Mark[/quote] The problem is not that your cab is poor at reproducing the fundamental of the lowest notes but is that it is also down in response at the 2nd harmonic or these low notes, i.e. in the <70Hz region. With a typical bass the attack phase of the note is roughly equal parts fundamental and 2nd harmonic (1st overtone) and the sustain phase is predominantly 2nd harmonic. The shorter the scale length and the less rigid the neck structure, the less loud the fundamental is, particularly in sustain. ERB owners get on with low F# because the bulk of the musical content of the note is above 50Hz. Here's an enlightening measured plot of an Avatar 4x10" neo cab - maybe a cheap 4x10" but it actually contains better speakers than most name brands: Note how the response is dropping by 100Hz. This is the same for the vast majority of 10" cabs, Acme excepted. 15" loaded cabs are rarely better because they have insufficient internal volume for the speaker to operate efficiently. The other problem you're coming up against is that even if your cab had good response down to low B fundamental, your speakers would have insufficient travel to move enough air to get loud enough, hence the choked response as they run out of excursion and into excursion related power compression. Alex

I'm deeply impressed with the Tascam VL-X5. Unbeatable for the money! Alex

I've never seen an orchestra where the players bring back-up instruments! Alex

[quote name='man_at_arms84' post='136369' date='Feb 8 2008, 10:59 AM']That sounds all too complicated for me. But im no tech head. Your probably right. Simply put, All I know is I plug my head into the cabs as I have done with different amps before. Cant take this one above 3.[/quote] Well here's something to mess with your head - when your volume is at 3, you could actually be getting full power from your amp. In fact very few amps can handle the volume knob being past 12 o'clock because by that point the gain is so high that they're out of power. Once you get into the world of pro PA gear instead of instrument amps you can actually use the whole travel of the knob. Why is this? Because a typical bassist will put two amps side by side, set the knobs in the same position and then deem the loudest amp to be the most powerful. By this test my amp isn't very powerful - but lo! if you turn up the knobs further it just gets louder and louder, whilst staying clean. That thing I was saying about cabs not handling their rated power because the speakers couldn't move far enough - look at this plot and tell me if you now understand: Where the line is horizontal the speakers can move far enough to handle the rated thermal power. It then drops as the speaker reaches its excursion limits. With a sealed cab that line would continue dropping right down to bugger all at 30Hz. With a ported cab the power handling then recovers as you approach the area where the port is producing most of the sound. Below the port tuning frequency the power handling plummets again. This plot is for a nice boutique 4x10" with expensive neo speakers. A cheaper 4x10" like a Hartke VX410 will see the graph dip to as little as 100W. If you're running synths and other octaving effects you can end up pouring tons of power in below the tuning frequency and rapidly killing your cab. Alex

[quote name='man_at_arms84' post='136351' date='Feb 8 2008, 10:23 AM']I have the same head. and the same problem. I've blown two cabs. I've now had some cabs made for me to spec to resolve the prob. I dont think he's being arrogant, but the amp is STUPIDLY powerful. Im actually thinking of looking for another head because of it![/quote] I wouldn't consider it stupidly powerful - in fact it is less powerful than each half of my amp, each half of which drives an Acme 2x10", and has done so whilst using tons of effects. The problems lies with the dubious power handling ratings on most bass cabs. Although they may be able to handle the heat from say 1000W of power, the speakers cannot move far enough without damage, hence they get blown. I've written tons about this in the past if you want to search. I believe it is almost impossible to have too powerful an amp. The problem lies with the operator - just as with fast cars, if you are incapable of keeping control of the power then you will crash and burn. Alex

Those wanting an on-topic discussion about Thomann's service should probably look at the thread title... I suspect the common service problem with UK musical instrument etc shops lies with the vast majority of the employees being wannabe rock stars. But I can't see many failed rock stars wanting to work for Thomann's online sales department where they don't get to show off their 'chops'. Maybe if you visit their real shop you can get the service you know and dread... Alex

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='130414' date='Jan 30 2008, 01:36 AM']And as a result, my left hand is cramping a bit on longer gigs and getting tired more easily.[/quote] Also, turn your amp up and lighten your touch. Alex

Go diagonally from 1st fret G, 2nd fret D, 3rd fret A, 4th fret E, then 1st fret E, 2nd fret A, 3rd fret D, 4th fret G, playing one finger per fret. Then move up a fret and repeat, until you reach the top of the neck. Then go back down. My thanks to Lincoln Goines! Alex

[quote name='barneythedog' post='136157' date='Feb 7 2008, 11:07 PM']I can assure you that I have a far higher tax burden here in France than those of you in the UK.[/quote] I'm curious about this statement - from what I've seen of the UK tax system vs other EU countries it seems that the multi-millionaires have a lower tax burden here whilst the normal working man pays hidden tax upon hidden tax, in which case you're clearly earning so much money that a bit of extra tax won't hurt! Obviously the UK is part of the EU, but some EU countries are net contributors and some are net recipients. The answer is to go on regular holidays to enjoy smooth fast Spanish roads that we paid for... Alex

[quote name='joegarcia' post='136214' date='Feb 8 2008, 12:48 AM']I don't mean to sound arrogant but I'm willing to bet I could blow both speakers in five minutes. I use a lot of nasty fx with lots of extreme volume spikes. [/quote] When you have blown speakers, how have they failed? And what speakers, in what cabs, have you blown? Alex

[quote name='stewblack' post='135913' date='Feb 7 2008, 05:15 PM']You are Robert Kilroy-Silk and I claim my £5.[/quote] Sir, I assure you I am neither orange nor double-barreled. I shall wire you 6 Euros and a schedule for strike action forthwith... Alex

If we'd joined the Euro when everyone else went single currency our economy would have spun out of control and gone through boom and bust. The economic position now is even more divergent as the UK economy is in a completely different place to the new EU states and having one central bank fix interest rates for all of us would be disastrous. Alex

[quote name='bremen' post='135807' date='Feb 7 2008, 03:17 PM']I use a Kappalite 15LF in 110 litres and it's good. I tuned it down to 36Hz though, as I use a 5 string.[/quote] I'm intending to use this with a 5 string too - have spent quite a lot of time messing with WinISD Pro plots and also taking advantage of the experience of other bassists with DIY 3015LF cabs and although the higher tuning frequency raises F10 it lowers F3 and gives equal F6. The 3015LF has so much Xmax that overexcursion below the tuning frequency is unlikely and the extra sensitivity and power handling in the critical 50-100Hz area should be useful. If you're bored you might like to try shorter ports and see if your experience match the theory and the reports I've heard. [quote name='bremen' post='135807' date='Feb 7 2008, 03:17 PM']I also have the same driver in a 130 litre box, not much difference, if any. For mid/high I use an Alpha 8MR and bi-amp, crossed over at about 600Hz. The system is *almost* loud, deep and small, though my drummer complains that it doesn't qualify as 'small'.[/quote] Cool. Have you tried any other midrange speakers? I worked up a few theoretical designs with the 8MR but got driven mad by the peaky response - then again it saves having to build a sub cab and is far cheaper than the 6ND410. How do you find your cab stacks up against the usual 4x10" fare? Alex

I bet one of my Acmes (rated at a mere 350W) could easily handle all the power from your Sunn. Cab power handling ratings are all but useless and certainly one of the least important specs for a bass cab. The power handling of an 8x10" is particularly irrelevant as the sensitivity of so many speakers in unison means you need very little power to go loud. Spread that power across eight voice coils and each speaker has a very easy time, whether the cab is rated at 400W or 2000W. Alex

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='133178' date='Feb 3 2008, 06:36 PM']Hoffman's Iron Law: small, loud, low. Pick any two, you can't have all three. Sticking a 15 into too small a box will only result in loud, not low.[/quote] The cab I'm building will have ~110 litres net internal volume which combined with a 46Hz tuning frequency gives a good balance of extension and sensitivity. The Omni 15TB uses much larger internal volume and a 50Hz tuning frequency to get more loudness, not lowness, and I don't need that extra loudness. Alex

Learn how to lock with the kick and then forget about it and just listen and feel the groove. Tempo is the responsibility of the whole band, not just the drummer. Although those New Orleans funk grooves are great grooves, they are not a great example of bass locking in with the kick, due to the very busy kick patterns and varied position relative to the beat. The Meters are particularly crazy when it comes to this kind of thing. If you learn how to play the drums, or at least program a drum machine / sequencer, then the bass/drum lockup becomes far deeper, managing to remain tight without ever getting stiff. I can't remember the last time I consciously thought about what my drummer was doing with the kick - though I frequency hassle him to sit in a different position versus the beat. Alex

[quote name='ARGH' post='132690' date='Feb 2 2008, 05:41 PM']the distinction of Bass and guitar,will cease.[/quote] The question is will the distinction, whether conscious or not, exist in the player's head? Alex

How many songwriters demand extended range instruments to further their music? Alex

[quote name='ARGH' post='132498' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:09 PM']But the instrument HAS changed since then....technology and technique...Im just thinking its going to...nope..got to change again...[/quote] Any changes in technique and technology since the '80s relating to the use of the bass guitar in the vast majority of of music have been marginal at best. But as with all subjective the things, the 'truth' depends on your perspective and I doubt your truth will ever be anywhere near mine. But talking about all this is rather pointless - I want to hear your examples of what you're doing differently and am more than happy to share examples of what I'm doing differently. Alex

[quote name='ARGH' post='132480' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:25 AM']Mutation,there is only so much you can do with we have at the moment,and its limits have been reached....music,basically all the other instruments around us are changing...our cousins (G***arists) have jumped on board without any qualms.[/quote] They have? Show me what proportion of guitarists are playing other than 6 string Fenders, Gibsons or one of a handful of 'approved' makers. Then compare that to the number of bassists playing fretless, 5, 6, 7+ strings, active, etc basses. [quote name='ARGH' post='132480' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:25 AM']In its currant design,if nothing moves or changes...its going to be played as a 'gimmick' or 'remember that sound' type thing rather than a vital needed part of music thats part of the cutting edge.[/quote] Gimmick? The bass guitar is predominantly used to provide the lowest notes and thus the harmonic and rhythmic foundation for the vast majority of music created nowadays. Even in electronica related genres it remains used. The double bass is still king for orchestral music and jazz and fulfils exactly the same function in the same way. Your post makes almost no sense. The whole 'problem' with being a bassist is that your role is so utterly lacking in 'gimmicks' and 'remember that sound' type moments that no-one ever notices you or gives you credit for what you bring to the music. It seems that despite your experience this is still jarring with you, that you're lacking the self-confidence to believe in what you do and thus are being paranoid and oversensitive. I don't really care what the rest of the world does - I shall continue to enjoy writing, recording and performing original music which has my bass playing at the heart of it. If in 20 years I'm the only person doing so then I shall relish my uniqueness but sadly I suspect I'm unlikely to have that marketing advantage. Alex

If you think bassists are conservative, you should look at guitarists. Or in fact practically any other instrumentalist! I can't see why good new music won't be being created on the bass guitar in a century's time, it fulfils the function of providing the foundation a band (or any kind of musical collective) in a more intuitive and natural way than any keyboard or sequencer whilst being easier to play than a big old upright. Furthermore I don't understand the obsession with constantly moving music forward instead of simply creating good music - it is only since the dawn of recording that originality has become so overvalued compared to quality. If you want to make original music on the bass I don't see why you need tons of strings - I can see why you may want them but why would you need them? On a 4 string you have 3 octaves of notes and 8 octaves of sound and the human ear only covers 10 octaves. I'm suspect you're doing good things with your 9, otherwise you wouldn't be so vehement about any detractors but I don't see why you're looking upon those creating new music with fewer strings, it strikes me as equally close minded as those you detest. Alex

I'm just starting a DIY cab myself. Eminence Kappalite 3015LF woofer and Eighteen Sound 6ND410 midrange. I'll be biamping as I have a 2 channel power amp, but with a simple passive line level crossover, 1st order on woofer, 2nd order on midrange, at 750Hz. You could easily achieve a similar result with a passive speaker level crossover with a suitably sized inductor in series with the woofer, and capacitor in series and inductor in parallel with the midrange, plus an L-pad on the midrange - note that the real impedance at 750Hz according to the manufacturer's plots should be used in the crossover component calculation, not the nominal 8 ohm impedance of each component. The parts for me will cost about £250, for a non-biamped design you'd be looking at around £300. Let me know if you want further info, I'll be drawing up the plans in the next week or so before I start cutting up wood. I like a lot of Bill's designs but none of them do quite what I want - the joy of DIY is you can design exactly for your needs, right down to the dimensions of your car boot! For bass the Omni 15TB is the BFM cab I'd build - my cab will be smaller and less loud but with similar bottom capability (and deeper sounding without EQ) and cleaner and flatter in the midrange. Alex

Also the more bottom your bass has, particularly the sustain of the lowest harmonics and fundamental, the higher your action will need to be. Alex

Ah, just wait until I get my hands on it! Alex