alexclaber

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1429621421' post='2753285']I'd go the other way... an 8" super light weight cab that actually allows a bass guitar to sound like a bass at passable volume would be a winner [/quote] How 'super light weight' are we talking?

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1429619274' post='2753249']An enormous transmission line speaker going right down to 20Hz for real, driven with your mega high excursion 12" cone and your nicest tweeter, maybe a second 12" driver for mid range if there is a big old whole in the frequency range. I love decent transmission line speakers, never heard one that could do bass guitar very well though, would be very interesting [/quote] That would be enormous! I think for going that low a better approach is to make something like a Bag End ELF (this is not something from Middle Earth, it really exists!) using a sealed cab and an active module with DSP to flatten the response down low. Hence my crazy 6x12" (or maybe 4x12") idea...

[quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1429617510' post='2753211'] Would you consider custom builds? [/quote] Yes - see here (scroll down): http://barefacedbass.com/ordering-and-availability.htm

The full-range drivers are the three on the left, the low-passed ones are the three on the right.

Here's a photo of it!

[quote name='Grissle' timestamp='1429616903' post='2753192']A 6x10 or 8x10 with one of the columns of drivers low passed to decrease beaming?! I believe it could be done with great effect but it could take work.[/quote] We already do that! http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Retro-Six10.htm

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1429614229' post='2753129'] My serious suggestion would be a lightweight cab that can be used for bass and guitar. So a Barefaced version of the cab part of my Peavey Vypyr VIP 3. My suggestion that I would seriously like to see (and hear) would be a Barefaced version of the Bad Cab. Make that lightweight Alex! [url="http://www.tech-soundsystems.de/TecAmp/index.php?id=111"]http://www.tech-soun...ndex.php?id=111[/url] [/quote] These three are all really great for guitar modelling (in descending order of cost!) http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/FR800.htm http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Big-Baby-2.htm http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Super-Midget.htm The Bad Cab does amuse me! Does the name refer to the excellence of the design process? We have some prototype 16 ohm 12XN drivers here so we can make a 4x12" that'll handle 3200W, weight about 80lbs and have 103dB sensitivity (107dB if you quote it Bergantino's new way... ) so that would compare favourably to the Bad Cab for output.

I do know how to do quotes but the forum software was having a disagreement with me about non-matched numbers of tags!

[b][i]Not that stupid, but I'd love to see a 3x10 designed to be used vertically, e.g a compromise between a 2x10 and a 4x10 - something which sounds like an ampeg 8x10 but more appropriate size and portability for pub gigs. Or, getting a bit sillier, a similar 3x12 or 3x15 [/i][/b] 3x10" is a bit of an odd one in terms of impedance because you have to do all series or all parallel wiring, so it has to be a very high or very low impedance driver. We can get pretty much any driver made as a prototype so we can do one-offs if they're interesting enough but to go into production we then have to commit to bigger numbers of drivers (and have the space and cashflow to hold stock). [b][i]an 18", a 12" and a selectable HF horn in the same cab. I reckon that's the panacea speaker - covers everyone's frequency response needs (it'll handle dub thumps up to blistering high end slapping)[/i][/b] The Big Twin 2 already does that. Find any bass guitar 1x18" and it'll flatten it! [b][i]A lightweight version of the Mesa 1516, amazing cab IMO or something like the Virtue Cab From Tecamp where you can turn the speakers & Tweeters on and off for different voices.[/i][/b] The Six10 can do more bottom than the 1516 and has a similar vibe higher up. The Virtue is an interesting one - is it not preferable to just have two or three different cabs? [b][i]How about a copy of a Trace Elliot Bright box?[/i][/b] This is not a behemoth! [b][i]Well I'm going to go in at the other end if the spectrum and perhaps apply the word behemoth ironically. If you produced a tiny, powerful 1x8 or 1x6 cab that had the potential for serious output (relatively speaking of course) I would be very very interested. The ultimate cab for jazz or electroacoustic scenarios, perhaps not purely aimed at bass instruments but with no problem catering for them as well. Failing that then some sort of light weight folded horn cab, simply because they look so unusual against today's usual cabs. I'm aware this does limit the commercial aspect though.[/i][/b] This is not a behemoth either! We spent quite a lot of time working on smaller drivers but found going down to an 8" was too costly in terms of output vs size. I think we're going to do a One10 which will be pretty small and should play louder than a lot of 1x12"s and some 2x10"s and 1x15"s. Lightweight folded horn could look cool but the mouth size tends to cripple them for bass guitar - great for big PA subs when you're using a large pile of them though. I wish horns made sense for bass but sadly they don't. Since getting into active speakers I'm thinking about doing an open baffle design again for maximum acoustic vibe and feedback resistance. [b][i]I want powered cabs, big ones, small ones.....so that old rack mount preamps can have nice new homes. A Barefaced powered version of the SWR Redhead format would get me quite excited.[/i][/b] We have one powered cab now: [url="http://barefacedbass...range/FR800.htm"]http://barefacedbass...range/FR800.htm[/url] If people buy it then we can do more! [b][i]And back on topic...try an 8x8"...I never heard the SWR one, but people have told me they were great?[/i][/b] The Henry 8x8 had the best name ever! [b][i]Or how about a 6x6"[/i][/b] It's interesting that quite a lot of people are suggesting lots of smaller drivers! The thing that I find frustrating with them is trying to get big excursion - the tighter radius of the surround really limits cone excursion unless you go for a much softer surround material. But a softer surround makes the driver much less robust as it's less well centred left to right/up/down within the magnet structure and the surround no longer acts to control excursion at the limits before anything gets broken. Of course you can go for less excursion but then you need even more drivers to give you enough cone area, so you need a bigger box and so on. There's a distinct lack of BIG STUPID cabs amongst these suggestions... Keep them coming! My most bonkers one is a sealed active 6x12" which looks like a Big Twin 2 from the front but has two pairs of side-firing 12"s. Flat response to 20Hz anyone?

I like to think that between the existing Super, Big and Retro10 cabs we have 99% of bass needs covered. However part of me wants to do something stupid, because we can! I already have a lot of ideas about what that could be but I'd like to hear from other bassists to see what they think. P.S. We're probably not going to make an 8x15"!

That amp looks quite fierce...

[quote name='bootsy666' timestamp='1429375182' post='2750945'] Someone told me once that a 200 watt valve amp was the equivalent of a 1000watt solid state. If that's true then the vba could handle a 2000 watt cab, that's one of the reasons for making the cab 2000watts.[/quote] It doesn't really work like that, it's pretty much the reverse - the bigger the cab, the easier a time the amp has. Think of it like the amp is trying to push air, and the more speakers, the easier it is to push air because each speaker doesn't have to work as hard. A 400W valve amp has the same power output as a good 400W solidstate amp but because they overdrive nicer you can get a few more dB out before it sounds nasty. If you run a load of fuzz and compression before either amp then there's not much in it at all. There will always be something cool about big valve amps and huge cabs though - a bit like big block V8 cars. Nothing logical but does that matter?

You're only using a 400W amp with them and the drivers will each handle 250W thermally - so 2000W total. Heat definitely isn't an issue, whatever Celestion say! You can definitely rear port them but you need to get the size/lengths right or you'll end up tuned too high which will kill off your deepest lows. As soon as you make the holes bigger you have to add length to keep the tuning frequency the same.

Bootsy, a few simple things to bear in mind. When you make a cab smaller per driver then you lose true lows (sub 100Hz) and gain a small amount of upper bass (100-200Hz). Because your cab doesn't have much volume behind each 15" it won't get a lot out of each in the real low but you'll get plenty of output in the 100Hz+ region. Bear in mind that if you're downtuning to A your lowest fundamental is 27.5Hz, first overtone 55Hz, second overtone 82.5Hz etc. However, because your cab has eight drivers working in unison and the total size is large, you'll still get a lot of output in the sub 100Hz region - you might need to back off the 100-400Hz region with your EQ so your low-mids don't overwhelm your true lows because otherwise you may end up sounding just like a big guitar rather than proper doom bass. Regarding the ports, if I were you I'd plug them. They're too small to work without making chuffing noises once you're cranking and the more you plug, the worse that will be.

[quote name='RedSlap' timestamp='1429137328' post='2748519']Just for reference- I would be running a GK 800RB through the cab: Bi-amping the 300w output into the 1x15 and the 100w output into the 4x10.. I was just thinking if all that power handling is wasted with such a low wattage bass head: the sound will be very weak, Right?[/quote] No, wrong. A cab that big will be loud with a low power head. Generally, the bigger the cab, the less power you need to reach the same loudness. Is the cab designed for biamping? I wouldn't expect that 15" to handle more than 100W in the lows before it starts to distort, so you'd be better off sharing the lows between all the drivers.

Our new full-range high resolution PA cab is actually a Big Baby 2 cab with a really nice 800W amp module with DSP built into it. The standard presets are for PA use in different acoustics but we can also pre-program them for bass guitar, FRFR guitar, keyboard, acoustic instrument etc use. We're just making a load of them for the Brighton Fringe Festival but once we have a spare one I'm happy to loan it out to curious bassists. http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/FR800.htm

[quote name='bootsy666' timestamp='1429189824' post='2748993']The basson weighed nearly 230lbs! I swapped the speakers for green label neo's, it's easier to move now.[/quote] Come on, make an effort! You need a man-size speaker like this: 720lbs. 20,000W. 148dB SPL continuous.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1429092412' post='2747824']I had it in rehearsal the other day. The rehearsal rig was farting out as our bassist had raised the lowest slider on the graphic EQ to the max. I asked him to cut it to minimum, and the only difference was that everything was immediately clearer, and the amp/cab stopped distorting. Despite this, everyone else in the band agreed that it was no longer bassy enough, and that the slider (30Hz I think) had to go back to the top. I guess this is how rehearsal rigs get knackered.[/quote] If you have a large number of bands on the graphic (like 12) then the 2nd/3rd sliders are usually the ones to use for boosting lows. Even with a 7 band graphic the lowest band is often a bit too low to boost much without cabs farting and the next one up is a good bet. Depending on the Q of the bands you can boost two adjacent bands equally and end up with the average frequency of the two actually being the centre of the boost, so that's another option.

I just quickly modelled your 8x15" cab: From 100Hz downwards it's of pretty much equal sensitivity to our Retro Six10, which can do fairly offensive levels of bass! It does need bigger ports - at the moment they'll start distorting pretty badly with about 50W. Six 4" ones 6" long will be fine. If you want maximum bass then replace the slanted baffles with one straight baffle for four 15"s and build another box the same size for the other four 15"s. One cab that size with four 15"s will do more bass than the 8x15" - the speakers have room to 'breathe' like that.

This should be quite entertaining to crank up loud! If you can face hauling it into central Brighton then we can run some tests on it if you like. If I hear a rumble from the west I'll know you've got it up and running...

[quote name='MoJoKe' timestamp='1429028118' post='2747193'] I would really like to hear it through BF cabs too. Anyone in Devon got something I can borrow for a couple of hours, or come and have a play yourself?[/quote] http://barefacedbass.com/barefaced-map.htm However, I think our customers are scared of bass stalkers, hardly any have signed up to the map...

I was impressed with the tones this could achieve when I tried one. The potential complexity will probably scare a lot of bassists off but it's friendlier than it looks - and once configured you can treat it just like a normal amp. We were using it through a Big Baby 2 and you could hear all the minutiae of the sonic details of everything it was modelling - the dynamic response was great, it felt pretty good as well as sounding good.

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1428953464' post='2746414'] Lozz's post earlier on piqued my interest in that I see you can get a box or lead which means you can run cabs like this in serial. So, if I get them both converted to 4 Ohm (or the one that isn't at least) then I can run the pair at 8 Ohms together. I might also start using a smaller amp unless the room is very, very big.[/quote] That would make a lot of sense! I know I considered that when we were discussing the various options but had discounted it because of maximising loudness with two cabs. But it sounds like they're more than loud enough for you with both so a 4 ohm pair in series (8 ohm total) makes sense and then a 4 ohm cab for one cab outings.

Series cables should only be used with absolutely identical cabs. If you use dissimilar cabs then the two or three or four cabs will all EQ each other in random ways as the power gets split differently at different frequencies.

This is the default orientation: Having the cab horizontal with the port on the side makes it sound biggest and fattest. This is the alternate orientation for better audibility in boomy rooms or on small stages: Turning the cab vertical like this changes three things: 1. It lowers the Hybrid Resonator's lower tuning frequency which counter-intuitively means you get a bit less bass. 2. It raises one of the 10"s away from the floor which means it gets less boundary reinforcement in the low-mids. 3. It raises the full-range 10" higher up which means if you're standing up close and are tall then you'll be at bit less far off-axis, so slightly better treble audibility. Before Barefaced I used a vertical two 2x10" stack for about a decade - I never saw anyone else stacking their cabs vertically in all that time! If we'd designed the Two10 to be super accurate, maximum clarity etc, then we'd have made it to go that way around as standard. But having them sideways gave us extra fatness, whilst the crossover solves the dispersion problem you normally get from side-by-side 10"s. And it leaves the option of going vertical for when the acoustics or stage arrangement don't suit the shorter wider stack.