alexclaber

Nice to see some straight answers from TC - everything is clear now (to me at least!)

Currently breaking in a Midget T, Compact, Super Twelve T and Big Twin T, which are all coming subject to fitting in the car!

How does 300W+300W=300W but 250W+250W=500W?!!

If the 1x10" and 2x10" contain the same woofers and the 1x10"s are roughly half the size of the 2x10" (there's a fair bit of leeway) then the maximum output of two 1x10"s and one 2x10" will be the same. If the internal volume per woofer is smaller with one of the cabs then it'll need some bass boost to get the same tone but they'll run out of loudness at the same point because that's determined by the volume displacement rather than the thermal power handling.

I'll be coming with a cab or two and possibly another drummist! Will have to leave early because I need to get back to Brighton and then back up to that London...

I'd stick with the WorkingPro initially - then when you're used to how that performs with the S12 it's much easier to advise on which way to go. If it's too big/heavy take it out of the rackcase - it's only a 25lb 2U head! The Super Twelve is as efficient as a cab of that size can be, unless you deliberately engineer (or more commonly accidentally happen to have) a mid-bass hump, which gives greater loudness in the upper bass region at the expense of lower bass sensitivity and overall transient response (resonant humps cause overhanging boom). So it isn't power-hungry. It'll accept a lot of power if you want to get really really loud - even a ~1200W amp pushed to the edge isn't too much - by which point your guitarists will have left to go and buy some more piles of cabs and your drummer will be using tree-trunks to hit the skins...

Here's what they look like now: The cabs that went out 'on tour' and attracted a few pejorative 'homemade' comments were the very early ones - that was quite a few years ago - the fundamentals haven't changed but everything else has, resulting in a product with cosmetics to match performance. The fEarfuls are much more like the Big Series cabs - different design for a different purpose! As I've always said though, get a cab that gets the sound you want and the loudness you need whilst fulfilling your practical requirements. It doesn't matter whether that comes from 15"s, 12"s, 10"s or a crate filled with mice waving those oriental fans at appropriate frequencies!

It's good kit but you'd be better off starting with just the one cab, whichever suits your current tone/size/loudness requirements best. Add another if/when you need to. If you want to use headphones easily you'll need an amp with a headphone out, and preferably an aux in of some sort to allow you to mix a backing track, drum loop, or metronome in.

There's also how long you run the test for - peak, burst and continuous reveal very different ratings!

The normal way is with a scope to check for THD and then running a sine wave at set frequencies (the more the better) and seeing how many volts you can get out into a fixed load (4 or 8 ohms) before the %THD hits your spec limit. Then P=(V*V)/R A better way is to use a reactive load with capacitive and inductive components to test the amp at more challenging phase angles (when voltage and current aren't in unison), which could be done with a large bank of speakers (sufficient that they don't start exhibiting power compression which would change the value of R) or a reactive dummy load (measure some speakers and build a model with a load of resistors, inductors and capacitors). That's also silent which is a bonus. I'm looking forward to getting one of these test rigs built and getting a few amps on it - it'll be enlightening...

I see your point! Those BMS drivers are nice, though whether they're worth the extra over the best B&C, Ciare, Eminence or Beyma drivers for bass guitar use is debatable - the enclosure details are likely to make more difference. It does sound like Bob would be well served by a quality 1-way cab with a nice woofer or two in it. I'm a great believer in finding the kind(s) of sound you'd like to get from your rig on certain recordings, that way people can listen and advise accurately rather than make guesses based on inaccurate wordy descriptions!

[quote name='stevie' post='1359901' date='Sep 2 2011, 02:20 PM']...apart from the [b]serious omission of proper bracing[/b] and the lack of t-nuts, it was beautifully built from Baltic birch ply and I doubt if anybody else makes anything better...[/quote] Oxymoron?!!

[quote name='fleabag' post='1359684' date='Sep 2 2011, 11:37 AM']Thanks chaps Well if either of those amps can do each channel into 4 ohms , EG run 2 cabs, each with 4 ohms, then surley it can run 1 x 4 ohm speaker with the channels bridged, no ? Its not like I'm asking the amp to run lower than 4 ohms using a single 4 ohm cab, so i assume its no big deal[/quote] No. When you run an amp bridged, each side of the amp only sees half of the load impedance. So when you bridge into 4 ohms, the left of the amp sees 2 ohms and the right of the amp sees 2 ohms.

Indeed, if you can bridge an amp into 4 ohms then it's 2 ohm stable in used in parallel. Some amps don't have enough current delivery to develop any more power into 2 ohms than 4 ohms, hence bridged into 4 ohm output can be the same as bridged into 8 ohms. [url="http://www.swrsound.com/support/manuals/html/sm400om.php"]http://www.swrsound.com/support/manuals/html/sm400om.php[/url] Interesting to note that the bridged output is lower than you'd normally expect, whilst with power amps it's usually a bit higher than double the unbridged power. Presumably this is down to the power supply design?

Anyone that claims small diameter cones cabs can't do big lows needs to try an Acme Low-B, an Ampeg 410HLF, a Bergantino HT210, a EA VL210, etc... Or an SWR Henry 8x8"!

If each side will run down to 4 ohms then it'll bridge into 8 ohms, whilst if each side runs down to 2 ohms it'll bridge into 4 ohms. With solidstate amps you can run any higher impedance than the minimum load, even hundreds of ohms, you just get less power with increasing impedance.

[quote name='bobpalt' post='1358467' date='Sep 1 2011, 09:39 AM']I was looking at an Accugroove Whappo Junior, but was put off by the fact that the mid and tweeter werent controllable, but to achieve an improvement in quality over my Dr Bass (which as I said, is very good), what on earth should I be looking at? I think all I have done is confuse myself, and maybe I should gig with my practice cab!![/quote] That's what I'd do - no harm in trying it! Variable attenuators on tweeters work fine (power is low and smooth response isn't so critical) as long as the crossover is designed around them. On midrange units they reduce amplifier headroom, increase the risk of cab damage in very loud situations and rarely merely turn the midrange up and down as they interact with the crossover components and cause the roll-off points and slopes to shift. Better to use the pickup pan on your bass and the active EQ on your amp and/or bass to adjust your mids. Your conclusion that you prefer 15"s to other sizes is flawed because you can't accurately group the sound of speakers by woofer size. It sounds like you prefer smoother, fatter cabs - doesn't matter what size speakers you use to get that sound as long as you get that sound!

Very different sounds! What is it that you don't like about the tone of your current rig that you want to change? That'll give us the answer.

[quote name='chris_b' post='1354638' date='Aug 28 2011, 06:55 PM']...I want a combined total of speakerage of between 600 watts and 1000 watts. And I won't be relying on any cab specs for this info!!![/quote] So how will you get this info? Will you be Klippel and thermal-failure testing the cabs yourself?

Charic, if you read through the Barefaced site and my BGM columns you'll find the answer. But if you haven't got the time then bear these points in mind: 1. Most of the tone is down to the player. 2. The best tone in the world is no use if no-one can hear it. 3. I'd rather listen to great music than great bass tone. 4. You can't buy talent or tone. But you can work hard to improve your musicality, your bass playing and your tone, with much better results than through spending money. 5. I'm not the best bassist in the world but no-one is better at playing like me - and I'm all about feel, groove and tone. I'll happily play through almost anything and get a good tone through almost anything (but I may turn some guitar amps down down in the process). 6. Talk to me about music and bass playing and you'll get music and art and groove oriented language. Talk to me about amplification and you'll mostly get 'sterile' matter of fact engineering language. I've been talking about music, bass playing and bass gear on forums/newgroups since 1997. By the time basschat came into being I knew where I was as a musician and artist and was getting back into engineering, hence the skew of my posts on here. Get trapped in a room with me, a bass and a drum kit and I'm likely to want to jam and work on grooves until my fingers fall off! And when they do and I stop I'll probably start dissecting your groove playing and tell you where you need to work on your timing, note placements, dynamics and tone. And then start playing again. Regarding 'cack specifications', specs aren't good or bad, they just are what they are. Some specs may mean something won't work for your needs but will work for someone else's. We are the creators of the music - not the instruments, not the amps, not the cabs. If you think of it like audiophiles think about hi-fi systems then you're barking up the wrong tree!

Chris, it's nothing like that at all. You're talking about perception, I'm talking about absolutes. It's like you saying your car feels fast but then timing it over a 1/4 mile and finding it isn't as quick as it feels. I will continue to recommend the TC heads to those that I believe would suit its tonal characteristics and loudness (not power!) and I will continue to recommend a variety of other heads for those who won't get on with it so well. There's no rocket science, just clever DSP. If you like the tone and it's loud enough for you then what's the problem? It isn't a panacea and the actual power output and frequency response help explain why.

"Masses of low end" does not always equal deep low end. As I said there are about three octaves of bottom in a bass guitar's sound - if 80-320Hz are loud but 40-80Hz absent you might deem it to have "masses of low end" even though it does not have deep low end. There are enough happy Schroeder users saying their cabs have tons of bottom to show that we all have different needs and wants! Regarding how much power you can put into a cab, here's a quote from one of the early hi-fi pioneers regarding bass guitar amplification: "With a 15 watt amplifier I would advise the use of one 15" unit or a couple of 12"." That's so the speakers can handle the power! Is anyone here still using that 7.5W per 12" rule of thumb or have things progressed? And things don't stop progressing...

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1352194' date='Aug 26 2011, 11:16 AM']Unless you are in Metallica, the volume is moot.[/quote] No it isn't. Good but small cab + big power = nice tone and volume. Or large cab + small power = nice tone and volume. But good but small cab + small power = not enough loudness or fatness. Is that so hard to understand? An analogy is sailing - small cab is like having a small sail. If you want to move at a decent speed you have two options - smaller boat (ie less bottom) or more wind (ie more amp power). Or get a bigger sail (bigger cab) or more sails (more small cabs).