alexclaber

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='679211' date='Dec 9 2009, 04:09 PM']"Ports - it's easy to see if that's the case". I'm sorry, but most of the people on here wouldn't know what size port they are looking out for.[/quote] A good rule of thumb is that the port needs to be at least 1/9 the size of the speaker. [quote name='EBS_freak' post='679211' date='Dec 9 2009, 04:09 PM']Porting variance is small. Undersized ports will cripple Vd. Make your mind up.[/quote] Sorry I should have been more clear - I was talking about port tuning so the statement would have been more clear if I said port [b]tuning[/b] related variance is small. Fortunately most decent cabs have sufficiently large ports though a few cabs have quite ridiculously small ports for the speakers they use. [quote name='EBS_freak' post='679211' date='Dec 9 2009, 04:09 PM']And if you think that 2x12 can match a 8x10... I would like to see exactly how you have got to that conclusion. Have you gigged an 8x10? Or is this all paper based too?[/quote] I have never gigged an 8x10" because I've never needed or wanted to, they just don't sound how I want. But yes, I know that the right 2x12" can quite happily match an 8x10" and more. Despite what you may thing it isn't rocket science. And amazingly rocket science does a pretty good job of making things fly to the moon without having to just guess at what will work. Engineers have been using science and mathematics for hundreds of years to build the world you live in. It seems rather curious to deem their work irrelevant in this specific case. Alex

[quote name='bigjohn' post='679069' date='Dec 9 2009, 01:59 PM']Is that good or bad? Would that change dramatically with the celestion loaded 1212L?[/quote] It's good, especially for such a small cab, hence its popularity. With the Celestions it's 478cc. [quote name='51m0n' post='679023' date='Dec 9 2009, 01:11 PM']Or am I very much mistaken Alex?[/quote] No, you're absolutely spot on. [quote name='razze06' post='679015' date='Dec 9 2009, 01:03 PM']Will the appearance of more specs on the datasheet alter the quality of the sound that comes out of the speaker?[/quote] No, but if you're going to quote some specs, why not make them the useful ones? The main figure that everyone gets excited about (watts watts watts) is all but completely useless. And if you're going to quote specs, make them honest. Some manufacturers have even quoted weight specs which are more than 10% lower than reality and that's not exactly hard to check! [quote name='EBS_freak' post='678919' date='Dec 9 2009, 11:32 AM']Specs on paper mean nothing. Performance in the real world means everything.[/quote] Real specs do mean something. If they didn't everything would be 'designed' by trial and error. Performance in the real world can be more accurately predicted by accurate modelling than by trying a cab in a guitar shop. But the best thing to do is to use the cab with your bass, your amp, your playing and in your band at a typical venue. Without sufficient Vd that perfect sound you get in the shop simply isn't going happen on your gig. [quote name='EBS_freak' post='679126' date='Dec 9 2009, 02:55 PM']I'm with Bose on this one. Dont publish meaningless specs that can be interpretted in different ways. Let your ears do the deciding.[/quote] If you think Bose gear sounds good for the money then that explains everything! Mr Bose is a marketing genius. [quote name='EBS_freak' post='679150' date='Dec 9 2009, 03:17 PM']Adding Vd means nothing either... especially if we don't know if a manufacturer has calculated their porting correctly, let alone their cab size in relation to the drivers.[/quote] No. As most cabs have plenty of thermal power handling and plenty of midrange sensitivity, then Vd is the limiting factor. If ports are undersized then that will cripple the Vd but it's easy to see if that's the case. If the cab is very small (like a Schroeder or to a lesser degree like the Midgets) then it will take more power to drive the cab to full Vd but the total Vd remains the same. If the cab is tuned too high then it'll give the feel of greater Vd but will unload prematurely, whilst if it's tuned too low then it'll feel like it has less Vd. However within the typical tuning range of a bass cab the porting related variance is small compared to the absolute result of how much Vd it has. Alex

Seriously, if you want to know the answers then email the manufacturers directly and ask them! And feel free to post their responses. One thing I will say is that there are no OEM models which are vastly different to stock drivers when it comes to the motor system and it's the motor which determines Xmax. Alex

[quote name='Born 2B Mild' post='678099' date='Dec 8 2009, 04:15 PM']So out of interest, can you list the Vd for a few well known cabs that might be thought of as rivals for the Barefaced dollar? e'g. GS112s, Bergantino, Schroeder, EBS, Epifani etc?[/quote] The problem with doing that is everyone that owns those cabs goes and gets all offended and huffy and then I get vilified and accused of saying their gear is crap (which I never am, I'm just providing some perspective and tools to help quantity people's experiences) - I'd rather the manufacturers themselves stood up and told the truth. Alex

I think it's time to start a movement for cab manufacturers to explicitly state the volume displacement (Vd) of their cabs. Everywhere I look I see headline power figures (oooh, 1000W, wow!) which are totally unrealistic given that we play bass and every bassist knows that playing bass involves moving air. Yes, so much of the tone is actually in the midrange but the feel of the bass requires air to be moved, and if a cab can't move sufficient air then its tone in the mids and highs will degenerate as you turn it up. So here's the numbers for my cabs (note that if comparing to a sealed cab you should halve the Vd of the sealed cab or double it for the ported cab because a correctly tuned port effectively doubles Vd). Midget = 330cc Compact = 505cc D.M. = 660cc Big One = 846cc Vintage = 1010cc It isn't a hard number to find out - it's simply the cone area multiplied by the cone excursion - on datasheets cone area is Sd (or D x D x Pi / 4) and clean cone excursion is Xmax. Xmax can be worked out three ways - ( voice coil length minus gap height ) divided by two (which is a bit too conservative), (voice coil length minus gap height)/two plus (gap height / 4), or by measuring the excursion at which THD reaches 10%. Celestion use the first method so a neo 10" with a 2mm Xmax could be recalculated more fairly as (Hc - Hg)/2 + Hg/4 = (12 - 8)/2 + 8/4 = 4mm, not dissimilar to an Eminence neo 10" with a 4.2mm Xmax. So a 4x10" with Celestion neo 10"s would come in at 554cc whilst one with Eminence neo 10"s would come in as 581cc. Typically non-neo speakers in the bass guitar world have lower Xmax, though there are a select few exceptions. If you're looking at buying a cab and want to know how loud it can really play, ask what the Vd is. Alex P.S. Yes there are times when a cab with tons of Vd won't be loud because it has insufficient midrange sensitivity and thermal power handling, but the vast majority of cabs on the market have plenty of both of those, Vd is the predominant deficiency.

I guess it's about time the selection of the winner began. Should we create a shortlist for people to vote on? Alex

Here's a Midget/Compact stack the tidy way round. Total weight 46lbs. Alex

Hi Jon, Unfortunately you can't get the 3015s in a 4 ohm version and I can't see a driver swap being a success anyway because the change in response, sensitivity and impedance curve will throw the crossover and the resulting sound out of whack. Also it would be a bit like putting a Ferrari engine in a Skoda - so if you're lucky it might perform better but it'll also show up the limitations of the cab (insufficient bracing/damping, undersized ports, tweeter THD is rather high, etc). Sorry! Alex

[quote name='Bass Culture' post='675792' date='Dec 6 2009, 03:41 PM']...I wouldn't expect any single cab to really handle louder gigs effectively - there's several people already running two Barefaced Compacts in a rig, for example, for this very reason.[/quote] Depends on how loud you're talking - and also on how powerful your amp is. The vast majority of Compact owners are using a single cab as with the right amp it'll play as loud as most 4x10"s and 2x12"s. A pair is SVT/810 loud. Alex

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='676873' date='Dec 7 2009, 05:06 PM']No photos, no stack... [/quote] Well it's the wrong way round IMO and they look so much better under natural light rather than with a flash (perils of a gloss finish) but here it is. Alex

The first T'Midget/Compact stack is now out in the public domain. And the first T'D.M. and Big Baby are both nearing completion... Alex

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='674812' date='Dec 5 2009, 11:01 AM']Both in rehearsal and at the gig, I found I was having to roll off the bass (it was a bit boomy) but the high notes were all clear and audible.[/quote] Bear in mind that flat EQ on your Hartke is 2,10,2 not 5,5,5. Would cause much less confusion if Hartke mentioned this in the manual! What looks like flat (i.e. 5,5,5) is actually boosted bass, cut mids, boosted treble. The finish in the port is now gloss whilst the grill is plenty strong enough to protect the speaker and I couldn't see the point of adding more weight than necessary. An interesting challenge would be to see how a Barefaced cab survives a 6' drop compared to a standard cab - I suspect the lighter cab is likely to suffer less damage. Other than the minor niggles, glad it worked well in practice! Alex

[quote name='Earbrass' post='673292' date='Dec 3 2009, 03:42 PM']So, if a PA cab is likely to prove capable as a bass guitar cab, does the same hold true of powered PA cabs vs Bass power amps?[/quote] Some PA cabs are outstanding for bass but some are appalling. The bigger and more expensive they are, the better they tend to be. I'd run a mile from using most cheap PA cabs for bass but if you can find a nice big and not el cheapo one for a good price secondhand then go for it! Alex

Mike normally uses an Ampeg 6x10": [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=58279&view=findpost&p=636733"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&sho...st&p=636733[/url] Alex

The Big One is a relatively tall cab and the midrange speaker that's the source of all the mids and highs is at the top, plus the off-axis response is very good, so as long you don't stand hard up against the cab you won't have a problem hearing the necessary midrange punch. On a small stage you could elevate it or tilt it upwards if need be. Beer crates work great for elevating cabs - remember someone has spent a lot of money making them as light and strong as can be because beer is heavy and expensive! (Just as mineral water bottles are actually better than fancy branded hiking water bottles because they have the R&D budget). If your band is that loud though, I'd want to know more about how your band sets up on stage, how you monitor etc. Too much stage volume usually equals vocal nightmares and messy FOH mixes (though I wouldn't suggest being quiet on stage because that feels too weird). Alex

When you're dealing with guitar drivers the measurements you'd need to take are so extensive and the brainpower needed to interpret them so demanding that realistically the only way to choose them is to try them. Eminence's vague tone words are probably the most useful information there because the on-axis plot is done at 1W and the behaviour at that level is radically different to what happens at higher SPL, plus you don't even know how much of that 1W curve is made up of distortion overtones. Two of them will handle 200W without burning up and will be biblically loud. Personally I lean more towards getting the dirt from the amp, not the speaker, because it's much more predictable at different SPLs but speaker break-up is a unique sound which is impossible to emulate in terms of both tone and feel so if that's your bag then the only route is to cross your fingers and hope that the speaker you're choosing breaks up the way you want! Alex

Saying that, if you're just needing this cab for distorted stuff and you're using something else to bring the lows then one or two 12"s should be more than enough! Alex

Good. Here's a nice example (courtesy of bgavin) of what happens to the dispersion of a 10" speaker when you put them in a 2x2 arrangement: Note that with a single 10", or a vertical stacked pair, or even four in a vertical line, the horizontal off-axis response would start dipping an octave higher, which is a much less sonically detrimental region to have a reduction in output. Alex

Yes, that sounds about right and that roll-off should match up reasonably well with the roll-off of the woofers. Not sure about any tweeter being better than none at all - some just sound awful! If you have a link to those Celestion bits then I'll have a look at them. Alex

Go ahead Etienne - it'll be good to get an opinion from someone that's used a Compact for plenty of gigs. Now didn't Adee say something about posting his review? Alex

The December issue of Bass Guitar Magazine not only mentioned Barefaced at the Brighton Bass Day but there's also Compact #3 in the foreground of the photo of the SE Bass Bash. Famous! Alex

Could you take some photos of the offending items and post them up here? Don't go cutting and glueing just yet! Alex

[quote name='mikhay77' post='670349' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:00 PM']Hi there,I'm thinking of adding a horn to my trace 1048 cab.The fitting is not a problem and I'm pretty competent at soldering etc.Its advice on what sort of driver and crossover to fit.Its a 300w,8 ohm cab so does this mean I need a 300w comp driver? What sort of crossover frequency to look for.Is there a matched pair for this sort of thing? Or the spec on the trace one fitted to the 1048h.I know its all down to personnel preference but any advice would be most grateful.Cheers.Mike.[/quote] Hi Mike, Well the good news is that you don't need a 300W tweeter! You'll find most tweeters in bass cabs are rated at only 20-50W because there's so little power up there. The crossover needs to match the tweeter so you're best off looking for a company that can supply a stock highpass filter for its tweeters, otherwise you'll need to design one yourself which isn't the easiest job - especially if you want to do it well. In an ideal world you'd match the roll-off of the woofers to that of the highpassed tweeter but without measurement kit you're not going to be able to get that information. You'll probably want an adjustable L-pad as well so you can turn the tweeter up and down. It's probably worth hunting through talkbass to see if anyone's done this before, could save you quite a bit of research time! Alex

[quote name='guyl' post='670580' date='Nov 30 2009, 11:32 PM']Is the Big One still moving?[/quote] I too have been wondering about this! Who has it now and who's it going to next? Alex

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='668454' date='Nov 28 2009, 04:49 PM']Alex - instead of T'Vintage, why not call it the Vintage-T?[/quote] Doing so just seemed rather predictable... Alex