Marvin

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1340220501' post='1701394'] Would've contributed much sooner to this thread if it were not for the fact that I've just spent 4 hours down t' local nick, trying to explain to plod that the Odeon management had no right to deny me free admission, on account that if I liked Men in Black 3, then, I might buy the box set...I mean, nobody's actually losing out, are they? What a depressing thread! [b]Thought this was a site for musicians.[/b]..jeez! [/quote] That's are rather large leap Steve. Most contributors play once every other month down the Cock in Hand, for which their only payment is a pint of various ales from out of the drip trays. Hence the resistance for paying for music. There are a few almost beens I'll concede.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340145754' post='1700110'] Its a global recession and everyone is skint. The first things that go when you're skint are luxuries, like expensive festival tickets... As far as I can see, the biggest problem at the small scale of the market is massive oversaturation. Supply massively outweighs demand. There are a seemingly infinite number of bands out there. A bar manager is never going to pay a band a living wage when instead they can get four or five naive young bands to indulge in pay-to-play and take all the financial risk themselves. And then it becomes self-defeating. Venues put on sh*t bands because they're cheap. sh*t bands don't attract paying punters. Don't bring in paying punters and the venue won't pay a decent wage. Repeat. Venues aren't just shutting because no-one wants to pay for gigs. They're shutting for loads of reasons---the pub industry is struggling, promoters have got lazy and put on any old sh*t so don't attract any regular punters, etc etc. [/quote] You've just validated the point then that people will not pay for music anymore, whether it be recorded or live. [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340145896' post='1700113'] If you're going to play the capitalist card then its even more obvious that the music industry has to change. When customers won't buy your product anymore you need to find a new business model or die. [/quote] I'm not playing any card, simply pointing out a fact. Music is commodified and as such the people who make it have been able to earn an income from it. Now that looks like it won't be possible anymore because an ever increasing number of individuals believe they shouldn't have to pay for music in any format. The response of people who defend this 'non payment' stance is to glibly reply that the music industry has to change. Change to what? There's never an answer or solution given, just 'you must change'. Recording, live, streaming none of them work. So the industry will die because there is no other business model, something the people who won't pay won't face up to. So kiss goodbye to music. [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340146616' post='1700126'] Happens all the time doesn't it? And when it does, people find another way of earning money, like get another job. But the music industry seems to be in denial about things changing so they're not even looking around for another 'job' - just trying to prolong the old one. [/quote] Change to what? As above, just saying change isn't an answer is it.

[quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1340145492' post='1700106'] sorry mate. if music is about making money .... eeeuuuggh . [/quote] Really? It's always been about money. Everything's about money, that's the world we live in.

[quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1340145177' post='1700102'] Marvin, re-quoting myself, not being vain or 'owt : "that's nothing to do with just music. check out how many local pubs disappear every day. 'super' - market forces 'ennit" i guess, as a capatilist, you'll just have to accept market forces... [/quote] I'm not a capitalist. SImply pointing out the sheer bloody hypocrisy of people who moan about the music industry being about just making money. Of course it's about making money. Record labels aren't charities, social enterprises and set up just to piss about. They're there to make money, that's what they do, wtf else did people think they were?

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340144488' post='1700086'] And of course no musicians hold any responsibility for that. There are no bands out there who'll willingly sign up for pay-to-play, or play for free week after week after week and devalue their own product as a result. Its all the fault of those nasty downloaders that nobody gets paid for gigs, right? [/quote] You missed the point entirely. The argument is made that musicians rather than making music from recordings make an income from live performance. This is not possible if venues are shutting down or people aren't getting paid. Although perhaps it being the same ethos of not wanting to pay for anything is running through both. Even the notion that festivals would generate incomes is a non-starter, with several big festivals not going ahead last year due to poor ticket sales.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340144338' post='1700079'] To be blunt, I don't believe that. For instance I've seen reports that suggest the same people who download the most films are also the same people who buy the most DVDs. Businesses need to change and evolve, or they die. The music business is no different. I'm not saying that illegal downloading is 100% a good thing. In many, many ways its a bad thing. I don't do it myself. But---and its a big, fat, Jennifer Lopez sized but---neither is it 100% a bad thing. Its a grey area filled with strong opinions and very reasonable points on both sides and all I'm really trying to say is that people who try and paint everything as either black or white are just muppets who do nothing to help their argument. In my opinion the industry needs to forget about the saddoes who have 11,000 illegal mp3s on their hard drive. Those people aren't your customers. They're never going to pay for your product. Trying to stop them is just a waste of time, effort, and money. The industry should instead concentrate on people who [i]are[/i] prepared to support your artists financially, and find the best way to provide them with a product and a business model that works for everybody. There are plenty people out there---I'm one of them---who are prepared to pay for music and gigs. [b]You just need to find the right way to sell to them.[/b] [/quote] And there's your fundamental problem of your argument. No one has ever got the answer to what the music industry should change to. For the people who are going to buy music they'll buy a download, buy a physical CD. For artists and the music industry there's no need to change for the people who are prepared to pay for music. The problem comes in that that group of people is getting smaller. Many people have stopped buying music and only download and don't pay. That's the crux of the problem, the increasing number of people who will not and do not pay for music, to which no one seems to have an answer to.

[quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1340142494' post='1700018'] exactly ! downloading is the way to 'free advertising', rather than 'stealing'. networks, be it radio, or tv have found it too easy to join hands with major labels to sell multiple units, rather than multiple choices. long live free choice. [/quote] I was being sarcastic. If no one's getting paid it won't happen. Then all we'll have is a vast array of back catalogues to trawl through, yawn. As for this 'getting back to the values of the live performance day', what drivel. The only artists making money out of live music are the ones who managed to make money out of recorded music. Add into that the fact that not a month, neigh week, goes past on here without someone highlighting venues shutting down and struggling to get paid for gigs, where does that leave making money from performances?

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340140014' post='1699934'] Its nothing to do with not seeing the value of music. I love music. I spend a small fortune on music, and gigs, and music merchandise. I will always continue to support musicians I love and music I love. I haven't downloaded anything illegally in years. But that doesn't mean that I'm just going to swallow the lie that illegal downloading is evil and wrong in every single way. The music "industry" has to face up to the reality that their "traditional" (I use the inverted commas because recorded music is still a relatively new invention) business model doesn't work in an internet world. You can either embrace new technology and new ways of doing things or you can stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la la la la la thieves thieves thieves la la la la la la la" and wonder where all your money went. If anything, the internet is forcing a return to the pre-recording days when the "value" in music was in live performance. A concert is something that can't be duplicated or downloaded. The live experience cannot be replicated. We should all embrace that and do as much as possible to ensure that everytime we do a gig we make it as good as possible so that people see the "value" in what we do and make them want to come back again and again. [/quote] We live in a capitalist world system, hence music is a product, regardless of how it is presented whether that be recorded or live. Copyright was developed as an extension of property rights, without which they cannot be traded and ergo you wouldn't have capitalism. I am then, as an old unreconstructed leftie truly overjoyed to see so many on Basschat wanting to bring down the capitalist world order. I sincerely hope that none of you start grumbling if say someone starts 'not paying' for the goods or service that generates your income. After all if lots of people started following suite what could be done about it?

I've no idea about pick ups tbh, but congratulations on getting a job

I gave it a fair bit of thought over the last 2 days and the result is I've quit that project. I've seen this escalate before causing a lot of friction in my last band and I personally haven't got time for it. I was upfront, stated I was in another band and that the Thursday was probably a no go for me to do an open mic.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/172333-ibanez-sr300-a-budget-bass-fooled-me/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/172333-ibanez-sr300-a-budget-bass-fooled-me/page__fromsearch__1[/url] This might help. There are quite a few on here that have got a 300 and they've got a good rep. Neck is stupidly skinny. Some don't like the Ibanez pups, but tbh they sound good to me. Did I mention I've got one

At the beginning of this thread I said I never wanted a MM. Weeeeelllllllllll.....I've sort of changed my mind I'm so fickle.

[quote name='carldogs' timestamp='1339885401' post='1696012'] Hi Marvin, if some of this helps great. Been playing 4 string for about 18 years before going to five,........ [/quote] Thank you Carl, great post covering issues that haven't come up yet. And thanks to everyone. There seem to be some recurrent points coming up, string spacing and just remembering that top string is a B and not an E. I found that when I tried the 5 I started playing one of my basslines the E when it should start on the A.

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1339868957' post='1695709'] I love 5-stringers and could not play without one. In general: 1 - you really need to get used to that bottom string being a B, not and E, and that third fret being a D, not a G (easily done with some practice, but it does take a little time to readjust when you swap basses with a 4). 2 - a 5 will tend to sound different, usually deeper, than a 4, even when playing the same note on the same string and fret on the two basses. 3 - the neck is obviously wider, and you do have to get used to moving your hand and fingers around a little more. One of the reasons why I love my fretless 5 is that it allows me to jump around the fingerboard with less effort than a fretted. 4 - to do justice to a 5, you need a good amp (although I manage all right with my 20W Peavey, then again, I don't play live). Do take the plunge and enjoy! [/quote] Thank you Bluejay. I think I'll be slightly cheeky and ask to borrow the one I've been noodling on. [quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1339869220' post='1695714'] I used to play 5 string. Went back to 4 since i kept forgetting the B. Brilliant thumb rests though! [/quote] The 5 I played belongs to the guitarist in my band. He bought it to play bass in his other band. He's never played bass in a band before and when I picked it up I said his E string seem a little slack. "It's in drop D" he said "The B just throws me". I said to him it'd make a good thumb rest. Unfortunately he can only play with a pick, he's obviously not a proper bass player

I've had a couple of noodles on a friends 5 string bass. Surprisingly I found it a lot easier than I was expecting so am contemplating getting one. However, these noodles have only amounted to about half an hour in total. So I was just wandering if anyone who had a sustained go at the 5er didn't get on with it and why. There are several threads on advising members on starting on a 5er I was just wandering what pitfalls and problems people might have encountered.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1339865079' post='1695628'] You forgot '[/Git]'... oh, I see. [/quote]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1339864349' post='1695616'] [GIT] I think you'll find that's [i]plectrum[/i]. [/GIT] [/quote] Git!

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1339859359' post='1695530'] I'm of the opinion that the very best players would be competent at fingers, pick and slap. [/quote] Absolutely. I can't play with a plectra (?) or whatever it is we're calling picks now, and feel that my playing is very incomplete as a result.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1339782653' post='1694392'] Leave a Weight-Watchers' mag lying around the rehearsal room. He'll soon get the hint. [/quote]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1339781854' post='1694375'] Funny how - in new, under-rehearsed, ungigged bands - it's always the drummer who goes "Yeah! Wow! Let's [i]dooooo itttttt[/i]!" and everyone sort of shuffles their feet a bit and coughs. I suppose it's not an unreasonable question to ask but looks dead pushy when written down. Teach him to use the telephone and to speak with his mouth. All will be lovely. [/quote] In my limited experience, drummers are usually eager to get out because they just busk their way through every song they're asked to do. I've yet to meet one that actually practices the songs. Tuesday for example drummer says "I haven't learnt the drum part to Ain't no sunshine as it is on the record so we'll just go with the flow". Yep, let's just massacre the song then! He's quite pushy in the flesh to be honest

You'll have to be quick Gary, DaveVader gets all the best gigs

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1339774489' post='1694195'] Its always going to be tricky...... [/quote] I could understand him being jumpy if we were ready to be gigging properly, but we've only had 2 rehearsals and he's only talking of doing an open mic night at which we'd probably do 3 maybe 4 songs. The singer is very hesitant about doing it anyway as she thinks we need some more practice. It is the very start of things. In my view we're at the, 'still testing the water' stage with each other. Hence to start raising questions about commitment is somewhat premature. I've not had the same response from the originals band, and in fact our guitarist has started another originals project and it's done him the world of good, at our last practice he was swimming with ideas.

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1339773190' post='1694165'] you've been honest with both bands, and after 2 practices, who's to say either band is going to go somewhere. its a bit harsh for the drummer to start questioning where your priorities are before things have even got out of the practice room. my gut feeling is that if he's like this now he's only going to get worse and its not worth the hassle [/quote] that's very much my gut feeling as well to be honest. I don't want to walk off, but.... [quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1339773296' post='1694169'] Start a third band [/quote] Don't joke, that almost happened a few weeks ago

I'm currently in two bands, both just started up. One is originals, I'm not writing any of the material and only have to work on my lines and turn up to practice once a week at the moment until such time we're all happy to start getting out there. It's also a band with whom I'm good friends with the singer and guitarist and the other two guys are good sorts as well. Being not much work I joined a covers band that was starting up. This too is pretty low maintenance as the drummer works away, so is at home 5weeks then working 5weeks. The two seemed to be able to fit perfectly and as I saw it would get me playing a variety of stuff with different people. The covers band has only had two rehearsals, last one on Tuesday. At this rehearsal the drummer was keen to get to a local open mic on a Thursday. I told him that wasn't possible for me as that's when my originals band were 99.9% likely to want to practice and I couldn't do one on Sunday as I'd agreed to pick up my parents from the station that evening. Both bands know I'm in another band, in the originals it's almost par for the course that you have another project on the go. So, although over reacting a little, I was a little knarked to get this from the drummer of the cover's band. [quote] [color=#2A2A2A][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]........, have your originals band said that they will practice next Thursday? If not, then any chance you could tell them that you aren't available? I would like to think that we have equal standing with them, and not be coming in as 2nd priority. We can chat -not trying to make a big deal out of it, but it would be good to know where we stand.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Since we've only had two rehearsals and as usual being the bass player I'm the only one who has learnt all the songs properly, I thought it was a little early to start questioning my level of commitment. Especially as 'others' are having problems with such testing ditties as 'Maybe Tomorrow' by the Stereophonics Such a situation became an issue for the singer in my last band, who was in another band, and caused continual friction between her and the guitarist. Hence I'm tempted to politely say I'll leave now, to avoid potential future ball ache.

[quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1339649404' post='1691923'] I can't play any Bass :-) [/quote] You're not alone there