funkle

What's the loudest thing you would attempt to use it for without PA?

Definitely of interest.

I do notice the 12” PA FRFR solutions tend to weigh around 40 lbs. If they were closer to 30 lbs we wouldn’t likely be having this discussion. It’d be an easy choice.

Ok. Am coming back to playing a bit more again after a break. Can any of these full range 1x10 PA cabs - the K10.2 or the RCF equivalent - hold up to e.g. the Markbass CMD121p or the Eich Classic 112 combo? I’m looking to basically have a 30lb one hand small to medium gig solution. Bigger stuff go through PA. IME 1x12” is min necessary for many gigs. However I recognise the drivers in the CMD121p and the Eich may not be as good as what’s in the PA cabs. Hence the question. I did own an AER Amp One and Three for a spell but I always felt the lack of a tweeter.

Subbed.

Quick update. I’m a little stymied in progress until I negotiate further with the other half.

I'm going to need Paul to do the 'Impulse Response' graph. I can't quite figure out how to get it looking right, or indeed how to interpret it. Apart from the fact that apparently it tells us where room reflections might be.

Here's the waterfall plots in the new position. L side: R side: I'd say I still have a healthy amount of low end ringing going on; it extends even up into the mids and up to 1k. Ish That looks like I need a healthy amount of bass trapping. I think. Paul can comment....

Here's reverb time. I'll probably have to leave @Skol303 to comment....not sure this looks hugely different from before.

Some graphs coming. I swapped the studio desk to where the sofa was. I got the monitors within 7-8 cm of the centre points of being equally positioned from either wall. I couldn't get them exactly where I wanted because I'd end up squashing into the space my wife is using in front of her desk to sit. So.... Here's the updated frequency response graph. L speaker is red, R is in green. I did measurements with the study door open and closed. The ones with the door open are slightly better in the bottom end frequency response. This looks a lot more workable. Amazing what simply moving position in the room can do. My bass response down to 50Hz is much better and there's much less difference between L and R speakers. I still have some nulls affecting the L speaker more than the R around 200Hz though...and the reduction in the high end above 9k. NOt sure what I can do about those. I'll have to look at room treatments next I guess. Depends on the good old law of diminishing returns...

I’m on it. I can swap the DAW desk and my sofa around and re-measure. There is a huge amount of bass that I can audibly hear being bumped up in the corner where my wife’s desk is. If I set there when my stuff is playing from my PC, it just has this huuuuuuge low end. One of the reasons I avoided having my desk there in the first place. Although I now understand it is probably better acoustically to have the desk there (along the shorter wall than the longer wall), I think in this room it might actually be a worse option. I’ll report back when I have swapped stuff around. Thansk Paul @Skol303 for all the hard work!!!

@Skol303 absolutely stellar!! For everyone else’s info I’m still to measure the room fully and send Paul the measurements. But the detail of the analysis is just incredible. And even a possible solution in regards to listening spot etc! The high end dip is I assume because of the extremely odd shape of the room. It’s more rectangular than it is square, but I actually only have one full height wall; all the others have various degrees of attic roof sloping in. So I’ll go with the analysis that the shape of the room is doing something weird to the high end. Reverb time is probably good because it’s fully carpeted. The monitors I bought knowing they had zip from 50Hz on down. It seemed a good idea because I had heard bass mixing was problematic in small rooms. I got lucky though because I was pretty ignorant as to the details which are becoming clearer over time. I bought the headphones I have specifically to be able to monitor the bass; the Equator D5s I thought would be clearer in the mid and high end. I’ll have to see if I can negotiate moving stuff around a little with the good lady. Then I can re-measure, and aim for a higher SPL to help out with better analysis.

Email coming @Skol303. Very much appreciated.

Ah mate. You’re a gem. I really appreciate this. I’ll redo them as L on own, R on own, and together. I haven’t figured out how to do both together yet but will do. I’ll try and do a sketch of the room as well. It will shed some light I suspect...

Ok, I'm still wrestling with REW and how to get it to show what I want. The measuring side seemed straightforward enough - Sonarworks calibrated omni mic and mic cal file loaded into REW, getting the software set up etc. It's also complicated by the fact that I got a second screen and had to shift my studio monitors around a little to accommodate it. So the Sonarworks measurements will likely not be directly comparable, as I've moved the monitors forward a good 6 inches. Nonetheless I have some stuff I can post. SPL/freq chart smoothed to 1/24. This is averaged from a few responses in the sweet spot and moving it around by an inch or two: I'm guessing -55 dB is the baseline here. Lots of ongoing ringing out in the low end. And the mids....lol I'm going to need a little help interpreting this one. My take on it is it looks like I could use some fairly major bass trapping. That's an understatement... @Skol303 what do you reckon mate? Thanks kindly once again. NB. The shape of the space is pretty odd. It's in an attic room; 3 of the 4 walls are basically shaped/angled to match the roof (!); the other wall is flat but has virtually no space to put corner bass trapping in as a radiator is wedged in there. I'll take pics of it, but basically if I'm going to do bass trapping I'll probably have to do it on the ceiling, on the single flat wall and where the flat wall meets the ceiling....

Thanks Skol. I’ve downloaded REW and will get going with it over the next few days. Thanks for your very detailed input!

Thanks Mornats. I’m going to fire up Room EQ Wizard and see if I can get an idea of what the reverb decay is like in the room as well. The ‘clap test’ sounds fine, if somewhat unscientific. Sonarworks has a setting (with long latency) which minimised phase issues with the EQ correction. Gives high latency, but it sounds good....

Here's my completely untreated, carpeted (eeeek!), weirdly shaped attic room which I am forced by necessity/politics to use as my little music mixing room. Or at least what Sonarworks makes of it.... The bass null around 80Hz and mids null around 300Hz are pretty significant, as is the huge chunk of treble lost around 9-14kHz. You can see my monitors don't really put out anything significant below 50Hz (Equator D5s). And some interesting resonant peaks at 150Hz and 7-8kHz. (My headphones do have more low low bass, oddly enough - Denon AH2000. Graph below.) Sonarworks doesn't do FFT analysis so I can't tell you about reverb time. Given that the entire floor is covered in carpet, I assume it's not going to be huge...idk though... Given that I can't uncarpet the room, knock down walls, or turn it into my own personal studio (the space is shared with the good lady), all I can say is that Sonarworks has seemed to take what was a very weird sounding space and at least made it usable. The more I have been reading about acoustics, the more I am convinced that I'm going to need to design a room for this in the fullness of time. I'm just going to do the best I can with what I have for now. Quick question for the experts: how bad is this room as it is? (Sonarworks obviously does a lot of corrective EQ on the various nulls and peaks, which seems to work in the very small area that is my listening zone...) Thanks. Pete