funkle

The rhythm aspects shed a lot of light on phrasing for me. Really helpful. He also talks in some of his videos about the lack of rhythm pedagogy in the Western tradition of learning jazz. He then recommends a couple of books by Mike Longo, 'The Rhythmic Nature of Jazz' and I think 'Sight Reading Jazz Rhythms'. The YouTube clips of the associated DVDs look interesting. Guess what I have on order now! Big props to Hal Galper, again!

Just digging up this old thread to say this book is brilliant. Totally spot on and gives you a ton to do/work on. I can already think of a lot to do just from the first few chapters. I'm re-reading the book again after a year or two's break and it all just seems so well judged. Hal Galper's website (the articles in particular) and YouTube videos are excellent also - he echoes the book in his videos and vice versa. I can see the book shedding a lot of light on other things I do and practice. I can only say if you're serious about playing jazz, buy it!

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1392647245' post='2371012'] Tiltback/monitor form factor as well? If this sounds like a shopping list, it is because it is a shopping list. [/quote] +1 to this feature request!

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1391880854' post='2362286'] I would love a cab engineered for the increased LF extension (fully accepting the efficiency trade-off) that my ACME offers. Would that be an option? I am also a huge fan of DSP as evidenced in all the grownup PA systems as well as the Berg IP series. There was a thread on TB looking at DIY DSP http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f36/diy-line-mixer-crossover-eq-high-pass-filter-749884/ which would be great to slot into a nice 12" cab. [/quote] +1 to all the above. The minidsp stuff is really interesting, though the software is more geared at the moment to fixed installations (home hifi setups and the like). http://www.minidsp.com I have started to wonder why we bother to use passive crossover elements (heavy, expensive) when a DSP crossover mated to the correct power supply could so the same for less weight (and be re programmable). Extra cost of course....and you need a laptop or PC to edit the software in the MiniDSP modules. I was considering trying out a fearless F112 build, but I'm stoked to see what the three musketeers here come up with. Happy to support this project in any way I can.

Damn, so good I said it twice.... I'm down to my Acme B1, the Berg IP112ER, and the Berg CN112. Not too bad, really...

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1391723481' post='2360715'] Regional High End Cab Hoarders - N Wales branch captain. (as awarded by the Scottish Captain Funkle) [/quote] Ha!

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1391723481' post='2360715'] Regional High End Cab Hoarders - N Wales branch captain. (as awarded by the Scottish Captain Funkle) [/quote] Ha!

I bought only stuff I could return (apart from the IP, which has good resale value and was a good deal). The stuff I couldn't return I tried out in shops. The secondhand market here is by and large pretty good too, with a good chance to flip what doesn't work out.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1391375916' post='2356523'] is this another new cab you've got? [/quote] Heh, got it in the spree of trying new things last year. The CN112 sounds better to me than the HD112 and pairs well with the Bergie IP112ER. At home, I wasn't enamoured of the CN112, but in the band context it was awesome with the SL 900. My GAS is spent, at least until I've tried out a fearless F112....lol I still can't quite part with my Acme B1 either. To many gigs on it over the last 4 years or so. The CN112 is what I needed though, same weight as the B1 but slightly bigger and definitely louder. I can only say a CN212 must be pretty amazing. I've played the Vanderkley 2 x 112MNT stack with my SL900, it sounded absolutely gorgeous. I was a bit 'meh' on a single 112MNT, but I never got it out to playing out live/with a band - at that point I preferred the Acme B2. On the whole, 2 12" drivers I think sound better than 1. But an Acme Fullrange 12", Baer ML112, Fearful 12/6/1, or fearless F112 cab could potentially prove me wrong. I tried the Barefaced BB2, really great cab, but in the end I liked the Berg IP112ER's voicing just a smidge better. I'm hoping for no more GAS this year. But last year was really educational.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1390569104' post='2346956'] Pair of Bergantino CN112 cabs would be perfect. I use a CN112 with a Streamliner 900 and it's brilliant! I'll be getting a 2nd cab when I have more cash [/quote] I used my CN112 with my Streamliner 900 tonight as I couldn't quite be bothered to take my Berg IP112ER out (IP112ER 50 lbs, CN112 32 lbs) The CN112/SL900 nailed it for me tonight. Loud drummer, loud keys, great tone and sat just right in the mix. Jazz/fusiony stuff. Plenty loud. I wasn't sure about the CN112 at home, a bit too voiced, but excellent at rehearsal. I used the Streamliner as preamp only into the Berg IP a few weeks ago for the same rehearsal. Killed it then too. Less voiced than the CN112 at home, but just as good in the mix. Can't wait to get things loud enough to combine both the IP112ER and the CN112 (with the Streamliner as preamp only), but I haven't had a need to yet! Should be pretty good. Reckon 2 x CN112 cabs would be pretty ace.

Great work Phil and co. I'm already subbed on your other thread!

Awesome. Thank you for sharing your thought processes.

Do you regret asking for opinions yet?

How low do you want to go? -3db/-6db at 50hz? Lower? Higher? How big is the box to be? 'Super 12' size or smaller? How loud will it be? On axis? Off axis? In the days of big wattage in small packages, efficiency may be less important. Big Xmax? = significant cost? Is it acceptable to have holes in the frequency coverage? How many drivers do you plan to have? Port shape, size, location? A chimney effect (for cooling) can happen from ports located at the top and bottom of a cabinet. Four small triangular ports would brace the sides and allow a chimney effect in any orientation of the cabinet. Wedge shape? Can be useful. Or a strut on the bottom to angle it easily. Cheaper.

There's probably a couple of camps here. Those who want full range, and those who want a more coloured cabinet. I like full range, extended low end, and use a modelling pedal for colour. This is generally expensive (often 3 way designs, expensive parts, crossovers, etc). This is not to everyone's taste either. A 'bass guitar' coloured cab is I suspect more do-able within your design parameters?

I posted a few questions over on the BFM forum in regards the Simplexx 12 and the 3012LF and got some helpful responses. I've included links below for your ease of reading, if desired: http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21075 http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21073

I bought the Simplexx 12" plans too. Great reading. I'd have to get someone else to do the build, but reading the plans has been a helpful education, in so far as it has gone. I'm a lover of deep low end (played Acmes last 5 years), and have found new happiness with a Berg IP112ER. It's heavy, though, and it'd be good to have another 12" which is a bit lighter, but still a satisfying low end. The Berg HD112 was a bit too woolly sounding and the CN112 seems a bit middy to me - I guess I'm used to a relaxed sounding midrange. I tried Alex's BB2 and it's a little 'tight' on the low end for me. A great cab though. Beautiful sounding mids and high end. Coming from Acmes, everything else is lighter on the low end. However, the fEARful stuff is probably just a notch below in low end content, then the fearless stuff after that, I think. The Simplexx cab with a 3012LF I think will probably have a low end similar to fEARful, and maybe a bit more than the fearless. Just me surmising from guessing at box volumes.

Anyone have any thoughts at how the Simplexx 1x12" with the Kappalite 3012LF would compare to one of the fearless f112 (also based around 3012LF) designs sonically? The greenboy design is 3 way (crossed over to a Faital M5N12-80 and either the Eminence APT80 tweeter or Faital HF102 compression driver), and I assume would require a more complicated crossover due to that. The f112 allows for tilt back monitoring as the cab is shaped a bit like a monitor. I assume it gives up a little low end because I guess the internal volume is reduced due to its shape. Is a 2 way design intrinsically better than a 3 way design?

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1387547050' post='2313215'] Simplexx is a cost no object bass reflex. There's only so much you can do with a bass reflex. You can load it with more expensive drivers, but otherwise that's about it. I received my Kappalite samples six months before they went on the market, I had bass reflex prototypes using them a year before Greenboy put anything out, and I designed one of the best reviewed 1x12/1x5 cabs that uses an OEM Kappalite 12 (I can't say which, as the first thing you sign when taking on a design contract is a non-disclosure agreement, as no company wants it known that they employ independent designers). I don't use a Kappalite loaded bass reflex myself, I use a Jack 12 Lite. I introduced Simplexx because I had many requests for an easy to build design that still met my quality standards, not because bass reflex is better than or even equal to what I already offered. [/quote] Thanks Bill. I think I understand you have a preference for horn loaded designs, I can understand designing the Simplexx range as a purely market-led response. I may have an idea of whom you designed the cab for, but respect your NDA. I've liked the look of the Jack 12 Lite in terms of efficiency, but I wonder if coming from an Acme whether I'd find the presentation of the mids qute different from what I'm used to. Another cab to try out, eventually, I guess. [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1387569515' post='2313576'] Just a quickie (I'll continue this discussion another time - some interesting comments being made) - check out the catalogues from these manufacturers, who are the BMW/Mercedes of the speaker world at the moment: 18Sound, B&C, Beyma, BMS, Faital, RCF. These companies also make very good compression drivers. There are other companies making very good speakers but these guys have an in-depth range and some state-of-the-art designs (3,200 watt 18s, for example). JBL drivers are excellent, but you can't buy them as a consumer, and companies like Ciare and Precision Devices make some very good stuff but don't have such a wide product range. [/quote] Thank you kindly. I will start investigating.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1387487457' post='2312685'] The premium drive units, the very best that the drive unit manufacturers can produce and the ones that the big companies like Meyer, QSC, Clair, EAW, Nexo, Martin etc. use, are all standard models that are available to you as a consumer. [/quote] I'd like to know models of these, if you'd be happy enough to point me in the right direction? As a relative newbie to this I'd like to be able to look at the driver spec sheets...if I can... [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1387492375' post='2312746'] Yes, I know exactly where you're coming from. To do it properly with a compression driver you need either an expensive 1" (like an Italian one or a BMS) or preferably a 1.4". Then you have to find a nice-sounding horn. Unless you really need that 5-10kHz response, a cone driver will do as good a job, go lower, and be a lot cheaper (if you ignore the cost of the crossover ). I've often wondered what a 2" compression driver would sound like with bass - with the right horn, of course. [/quote] Again, did you have specific models in mind? (I've just bought some books on loudspeaker design and I'm trying to absorb more info on the subject.) Thanks. Pete

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1387146785' post='2308809'] In a cost no object design I'd go even lower than I did with the Simplexx, but for most builders cost is an object. [/quote] I would be very interested to know what the 'cost no object' BFM solution would look like, if you cared to design it. There is a niche for high performance bass reflex cabs, currently occupied (IMO) by Audiokinesis, Acme, BF, Baer, Greenboy, etc, all making slightly different trade-offs. The Simplexx cabs look like an elegant mid cost solution to use individual labour to cancel out the cost of using better quality drivers (if desired). What does the 'high end' BFM solution look like?

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1387162711' post='2308924'] What they've done is to take a bass reflex cab and put a reflector inside that directs the driver rear wave out the ports. [/quote] Thank you for the explanation. I'd been reading those threads but stopped when I realised actual factual information was not going to be forthcoming soon. I'd like to see some charts for those incredible claims, please and thank you... As a contrast, shopping for PA gear is in one sense very simple. I can obtain freq/SPL charts and polar response charts very easily from most manufacturer websites. The information provided seems accurate (weight, dimensions, etc) and they provide reasonable -3dB and -10dB points. If they don't, I can choose not to consider them and still have plenty of choice. Not so in bass cab land. Alex at BF and the BFM designs do the best job I've seen so far in giving useful info. I'd really like to see bass cab makers provide the same info that seems to be standard in the pro audio industry. It doesn't tell you how it is going to sound, necessarily, but it does provide useful factual information. /rant

Subscribed. I just paid for a set of BFM plans because I wanted to see how Bill designs a bass reflex cab. I am grateful he continues to post here, now that Talkbass is forbidden territory. I am also extremely grateful for seeing input from regulars here too, I'm learning a great deal from Stevie and Phil on this and other threads. Quick question. When designing a three way or two way full range system, how do you decide where to cross over? When polar response starts to drop off at the woofer, when SPL drops off, other...? I assume cone size matters here when designing as polar response vs frequency will be different between cone sizes, as pointed out already... Pete