funkle

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='441860' date='Mar 22 2009, 05:25 PM']For what its worth, for anyone who is interested in learning an approach influenced by Jeff in the UK feel free to drop a line to Phil Mann on this forum. Phil is a graduate from the school as well and Jeff was so impressed he offered him a job to teach at the school full time. Phil is a lovely chap, extremely modest and almost unknown in the UK. However I can't recommend him highly enough, a truly gifted, sensitive and self depreciating musician. Not that I'm trying to divert from people who would like to learn from Jeff Berlin directly, I'm just making it known that if the cost or committment is too great, there are other options available.[/quote] That sounds a lot cheaper and easier than flying to the US!

[quote name='The Funk' post='441848' date='Mar 22 2009, 05:04 PM']Fascinating thread. I don't think I have the balls or discipline to do this. Do you have to be at a certain level to enrol on a course - or do they take people who can barely read (notation)?[/quote] They take anyone at any level; you don't have to read at all. There's a few guys there now who started from being unable to read and they're doing pretty well. So, if you're thinking about it, take heart. Discipline is helpful though.

[quote name='blamelouis' post='441813' date='Mar 22 2009, 04:08 PM']Fantastic post Funkle , great to hear from someone who has lived the dream. If you were to reccomend a system of study that would be the most beneficial to us non attending students what would it be ? I got a LOT out of Jeffs chord tones for bass system but would like to take it further.[/quote] I would think a system of study should incorporate: 1. Ear Training - I just use what I got from the school. Don't know enough to recommend any other particular system, although there are a ton of self-directed courses out there. 2. Chord tone studies - I'm using a book from the school, as well as Chord Tone Studies For Electric Bass (Berklee press, written by Rich Appleman and Joseph Viola). There's at least a year's worth of chord tone exercises there, including approach notes and chord tensions. Also fulfilled by playing chord tones in every inversion over whatever tune you're playing at the moment. 3. Harmony studies - ah yes, the intellectual bit. I'm using the school's harmony book, and I did a lot of tune analysis based off that. I don't know enough to recommend any others. 4. Sight reading good music. Fulfilled by following #2, or Bach Cello Suites, or a 'bible' of bass lines, or what have you. You could just read what you are playing in your band. There's a ton of sources for reading practice. Walking bass lines. Standing in the Shadows of Motown. Carol Kaye's books. etc. (5. Playing regularly with other people! Especially if they're better than you.) Because it's hard to know the level you're at, what you should really try to do is find a good teacher. Once someone who really knows how to play (and hopefully, teach) hears you they can, if they're decent, direct you to what you need to learn/practice. I would say anyone who was a decent teacher would emphasise learning music in many of the ways I have described above. Pete

One last thing. Ear training is hugely important. And progress in it is easily, for me, the slowest area of musical development. Waaaay behind what it is possible to understand intellectually from theory. But persistence has paid great rewards, at least for me.

Another thing I just thought of from reading the replies to this thread. Before I came to the school, I thought I was good enough to teach myself. I was wrong, but fooled myself very successfully. After 1 month of the school in Oct 2007, I came away with a huge amount to practice, but still needed further guidance. After 3 months at the school this year, I am at the point where I [i]might[/i] be able to get by without a teacher for a year or so. I have so much stuff to practice, it may not be strictly necessary. I will try and find one, however, because having someone else's objective opinion is always useful. And they will be a source of new musical information, if they are any good. Long and the short of it - my most rapid improvements have come when I have been getting instruction in musical facts, be it ear training, theory, new bass lines in a variety of styles, or chord studies. I would not have made this degree of progress on my own, and I suspect most people are not sufficiently well trained enough to teach themselves successfully. Including me. That doesn't mean you are formally taught forever. I think there comes a point in your own musical education when you 'break free' from your formal teachers and guide your own development from listening to others/transcribing - but that point is pretty far along. I suppose if you can't find a teacher locally, though, you may have no other choice. In which case, transcribing would be an excellent way forward.

[quote name='ARGH' post='441490' date='Mar 22 2009, 08:16 AM']Thats the bit Im wondering about...the excess's on top....im writing a budget here What are we talking about in total,say per week of being there?[/quote] You'll have to get quotes for most of the other things on the list. Petrol was $1.90 or so per gallon (US gallon); i.e. about a quarter of the price in the UK. Car rental was down at 15 quid per day or so. Got it through netflights.com. Travel insurance - you'll have to get your own quote. Renting a room in a house I found on craigslist - $700 pcm. Very nice place. Could have gone cheaper, but paid more for the privacy and quality. If you are going to go, get a place in Safety Harbor, not Clearwater. Food - I ate pretty cheaply - about $70 per week, but extremely variable depending on where I shopped and how long I was buying for. Guess you'll have to work out the weekly cost yourself after you get some quotes, and factor in the exchange rate. But that's the region of costs you are looking at.

[quote name='Clockworkwar' post='441589' date='Mar 22 2009, 12:11 PM']I will continue to do my own thing, I know music theory but I am not going to be slave by it.[/quote] This is good. I will point out that learning music theory does not make you a slave. It opens up new avenues to travel down, if you desire.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='441486' date='Mar 22 2009, 04:52 AM']It's strangely disturbing... I would say that I have always taken a keen interest in theory and harmony, yet I read this and appreciate that I understand so little of it. Back to playing 8th notes on the root I suppose [/quote] I remember thinking that I knew a fair bit from what I had learned off of Carol Kaye, back when I went to the school the first time, in Oct 2007. I got that notion kicked out of me on the first day, and it was painful. The good thing was, the only way from there was up. And studying a well-written harmony textbook has been immensely helpful. And I do not mean just reading, but writing everything in there out properly in 12 keys, and accepting gradual/slow progress. Learning a good chunk of music theory really hasn't taken too long - I think a year and a half of moderate study isn't too huge an effort, and although analysing all those Real Book tunes was hard at first, it become hugely easier as time went on. The real trick is practicing exercises based on music theory, incorporating it into your vocabulary, and helping your ear to catch up to where your intellect has gone. Also, I think transcribing is like a triple dose of goodness - ear training, music theory/analysis, and writing it out correctly on paper (improving rhythmic understanding and reading skills). Keith Jarrett turned up to Berklee on his first day with a book of Bill Evans transcriptions he had worked out...!

[quote name='ARGH' post='441442' date='Mar 22 2009, 12:00 AM']I seriously consider going to Jeffs school...how much is the 10 weeker going to cost at todays rates??[/quote] From [url="http://www.playerschool.com/admissions/tuition-and-costs/48"]http://www.playerschool.com/admissions/tuition-and-costs/48[/url] : $3800 for tuition for the 10 week course. Now add in flights, food, accommodation, insurance, car rental, petrol, incidentals, etc. It wasn't cheap, but I am one heck of a better musician for it.

Many people have asked me privately what it was like to study with Jeff Berlin. I thought I would make a separate post on what it was like to study with Jeff, and elaborate on some of what he says. One-on-one, he is kind and honest, and is not slow to tell you when you're doing something that needs fixing. His ears are fantastic, so he doesn't miss anything in your playing! It only takes him a bit of listening to you to 'make the diagnosis' and prescribe the remedy, as it were. I have found many of his concepts to be useful: [list] [*]I practice new musical information slowly and attentively, and take frequent breaks to ensure that whatever I am doing has my full attention. [*]I never practiced with a metronome. Nonetheless, my time has improved the last few months. I think this mainly comes from playing with other musicians on a daily basis and from the rhythm studies and transcription done in ear training. [*]Playing in an ensemble or gig situation is a different situation to practicing. What you sound like when soloing/playing may not necessarily precisely sound like what you practice, but the 'flavour' comes through. [*]Improvement occurs in baby steps. If you're happy taking baby steps daily as opposed to expecting big jumps suddenly and periodicially, half the battle has been won. This is helpful in remaining patient! [*]'Groove' and 'feel' are acquired with musical experience and understanding. As everyone plays with feeling, no matter what situation they are in, experience and acquisition of musical information will help you to improve in these areas. On a personal note, I have found transcription to be a big way forward in this area... [*]Jeff would give me some exercises to simply 'regard' - i.e. practice the heck out of, but not to worry about memorising. Then, the week subsequently, when it was clear that I had come to understand it more musically, we might move to putting it in to all 12 keys. But the emphasis was really on going at the speed appropriate to you, and not moving on until he felt that you were understanding the material being presented. If that speed happened to be fast, fine. If it was slow, also fine. People go at the speed they can. [/list] Overall, I have found Jeff to be a great teacher; supportive and friendly, but always pushing you into new musical territory. It's hard to imagine being able to study with someone of Jeff's caliber anywhere else. A singular experience. Pete

Cross posting this from Talkbass, as it may be of interest. I originally attended the school back in October 2007 for 1 month, and posted a review on a separate thread - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7438"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7438[/url] ( [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374716"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374716[/url] over on Talkbass). I would suggest reading that post as a preamble to this one. This post has still turned out longer than intended, but such is life. I returned for a 3-month stint from January - March 2009. Many will recall my original review as positive. In retrospect, I can honestly say that my true musical life really started when I attended the school for the first time. In the year and a bit since attending school for the first time, I covered several areas, based on the school's teachings: [b]Harmony:[/b] I used the harmony book they provided to teach myself about common chord progressions, voice leading, primary subordinate substitutes, secondary dominants, tritone substitutions, and harmonic analysis. Quite simply, if it was in the book I sat down and wrote it out in treble and/or bass clef and made sure that I played with it and understood it. When I was unable to physically practice my instrument, I also harmonically analysed something in the region of 200 real book songs, in the manner much as someone might do crosswords or sudoku. [b]Ear Training:[/b] I continued the Ear Training 1 book developed by the school, and obtained the follow-on Ear Training 2 and 3 books from sympathetic ex-students, continuing to use them as I had been taught at the school. I was also not infrequently transcribing some things for a band I was in. [b]Practicing:[/b] [list] [*]Chord tones of any jazz tune I was playing, in all inversions, up and down the neck. [*]Sight reading - some Bach Cello etudes, Carol Kaye lines, many charts for the band I was in [*]Common chord progressions in all 12 keys (after writing them out in all 12 keys) [/list] In terms of how often I practiced over the last year, suffice it to say I have a fairly demanding day job and I consider myself lucky to get an hour a day in. At weekends I would have 2 hours on one of those days, if I was lucky. However I was rehearsing with and gigging with an amateur jazz band weekly as well over this time, so that helped. If I was unable to make time to practice, I nearly always did ear training. My aim in returning was to see whether continuing the work I had done since attending the school had been beneficial, to improve my musical understanding further, and see if what I had worked on developing in the meantime was 'correct', and to fill any gaps that were apparent. So, that is a reasonable summary of my background up to the point where I returned to the school in January. ------------------------------------------------------ So - where did that put me on my return to the school? ------------------------------------------------------ On the first day, I took the same harmony exam that I had done when I first attended the school. This time, however, I did very well; we found a large gap in my understanding of chord tensions, but my grip on inversions, voice leading, harmonic analysis, and so on was sound enough for me to be placed in Harmony 5 and 6 simultaneously. (There are 4 semesters in each year of the full 2 year course, so essentially I kicked myself along into the second year of the Harmony course). In terms of Ear Training, it turned out I had done enough to get myself into Ear Training 5 (skipping the 4th semester). This semester moved into sight singing Jazz and Harmonic Minor, as well as transcribing melodies and rhythms by ear (without an instrument). In terms of my playing and improvisational abilities, I ended up in the 'advanced' Ensemble, although given that attendance was lower this semester, the number of ensembles was less also. I also ended up in two Chart Reading classes simultaneously - one equivalent to being in the second semester at the school, and another more advanced one, with trickier charts and 16th note rhythms to read. I also decided to take private vocal lessons with a vocal teacher, Chip Marshall, at the school. It's a good instrument to have going for you, and I had no preconceptions about how to learn singing, especially as I have no formal singing experience. In essence: with a year of hard work along my fairly demanding day job, I managed to get myself along into the second year of the program. Seems a reasonable result for the effort expended! ---------------------------------------------------------- How did the semester progress, and what was the outcome? ---------------------------------------------------------- My week took the following shape: Ear Training 5 - 1 hour x 2/week Voice Lesson with Chip Marshall - 30 min x 2/week Ensemble - 1 hour x 4/week Bass Lesson with Jeff Berlin - 1 hour x 2/week Music Appreciation - 1 hour per week Chart Reading 2 - 1 hour per week Chart Reading 3 - 1 hour per week Suffice it to say I was pretty busy. Over the semester, we covered: [list] [*][b]Ear Training[/b] - Sight singing, in solfege, A harmonic minor, D jazz minor, G harmonic minor, and transcribing (sans instrument) eighth-note rhythms and major scale melodies in 4/4, 3/4, and 2/4. Taught by Matt Bokulic, who also wrote the whole ear training course there; a very funny guy. [*][b]Ensemble[/b] - Walking and improvising over Stella By Starlight, Green Dolphin Street, Gone With The Wind, Cherokee, Have You Met Miss Jones, and I Love You. Plus doing all of the associated practicing privately over these tunes. Taught by various teachers over the week, each of whom would make suggestions about how to improve subsequently. For instance, Jeremy Powell, a sax player, would tell us to memorise the melody and changes of tunes we were playing and ask us to turn our charts around so we couldn't see them - forces you to go on ear a lot more! Not always successful, but helped my ear develop more this semester. Interesting to note that even though Jeff does not believe doing this sort of thing is necessary (he has stated that playing with the chart and good old fashioned raw repetition will cause you to memorise the song anyway), he does not interfere with what other teachers ask you to do. The other teachers in this class include Joe Porter, a good upright bassist, Matt Bokulic, and Jeff Berlin. [*][b]Chart Reading 2[/b] - a range of written eighth and sixteenth note lines in a variety of styles (latin, hip-hop, jazz, etc) and improvising over the form of each of the associated charts. Done with Matt Bokulic. [*][b]Chart Reading 3[/b] - Reading and improvising over a variety of tougher charts with harder syncopated 16th note rhythms and compositional forms - mainly written out funk and jazz charts. Done with Matt Bokulic, who writes a lot of the charts - funky stuff! [*][b]Harmony 5[/b] - Writing and practicing exercises from the course's Chord Tone Studies book, which includes a variety of exercises in major and minor keys. Taught by Matt Bokulic. [*][b]Harmony 6[/b] - Exclusively harmonically analysing Real Book tunes. All the work I had done privately needed some fine tuning, but this class was illuminating. Figured out some of the keys to minor scale harmony here, and really improved in this area once I figured out that harmonising the minor scales (jazz minor, harmonic minor, etc) really opens the doors further in understanding advanced jazz harmony. Taught by, you guessed it, Matt Bokulic. [*][b]Music Appreciation[/b] - A surprise class to me, and hugely enjoyable. 1 hour a week to listen to a short history, along with a major work, of a selection of major classical composers - Brahms, Schubert, Korsakov, Beethoven, etc. taught by Matt Bokulic. Found out I like Debussy more than I thought here! [*][b]Vocal Lessons[/b] - breathing exercises and improvements to vocal technique, ended up learning and singing several Broadway tunes. Taught by an experienced singer and singing teacher, Chip Marshall. Turns out I'm a tenor, and have a decent voice. Who knew? [*][b]Bass Lessons[/b] - with Jeff. initially some written walking lines over the tunes being covered in ensemble, subsequently focusing on approach-note chordal exercises in all 12 keys for major, minor, dominant 7th, minor 7, minor 7b5 qualities; and exercises from various chord tone study books. Also, towards the end, Jeff recorded several solos for me to listen to, one of which I transcribed and derived many ideas from. [*][b]Recording Session[/b] - I was fortunate enough to be able to take part in a recording session at a nearby recording arts school, which was organised by the school but not a part of the everyday program. This turned out to be a great studio to record in and was valuable experience about working in the recording environment. I've yet to get a copy of that recording, but they'll post it to me when it arrives. [/list] -------------------------------------------------------- General reflections -------------------------------------------------------- [list] [*]The school had substantially fewer students this semester compared to the last time I came. This resulted in two huge benefits - everyone who was there was absolutely serious about music, and gave a very intimate feel to the school, contributing to a great camaraderie between students and teachers. All of us ended up hanging out together quite a bit, and I have seen quite a few of my teachers' gigs, so I can report they practice what they preach. And sound great. [*]Studying two instruments (bass and vocals) was nearly more than I could handle, and was very challenging time-wise. Especially as I ended up in two Chart Reading classes (which is not typical at the school). I had rather a lot of extra work, which I just managed to stay on top of. If you decide to study two instruments here, be ready for a real deluge of work. [*]In terms of how I structured the day, I generally woke up early, practiced vocal breathing exercises before school, then arrived at school 08.30 or so to do ear training exercises with a piano. I would then practice about 40-60 mins on whatever I had to cover that day, have a break, and repeat until the day finished at 17.00. Generally I would practice 2-3 hours a day on the instrument on top of ensembles/etc. Sometimes less, rarely, more. And when I say practice, I do not mean 'jamming' - I mean focused and attentive practice on musical information that was new to me and required total concentration. Anytime I found myself starting to noodle, I took a break. [*]Keeping up with the ear training is extremely important. Falling behind in that class is hard to catch up on. Although I had no problems keeping up, I did have a few 'bumps' I had to iron out - for instance, I spent a while writing out 8th note rhythms landing mainly on upbeats, as this turned out to be a problem area for me when I was sight-singing or transcribing. It is easy to underestimate the importance of regular daily practice of ear training, but it is utterly essential. [*]You will be seeing a lot of Matt Bokulic! He really puts a heart and soul into into the school, as you can see from the list of classes, and enjoys teaching. He's a lot of fun. [*]Both Matt and Jeff are Berklee graduates. After questioning both of them, it is clear that they have structured things at the school to be similar to their teaching experiences at Berklee. Of late, I have come to think of the school as 'mini Berklee'. [*]In my previous review, I stated that I thought a full two years worth of study at the school would get you fairly well along the road of being a great player, and be well rounded in music generally. I stand by that! [/list] All told, this has been a defining musical experience for me. I am definitely a hugely improved musician, and feel more confident in my reading, improvisational, and aural abilities. I am now competent enough to cover a variety of gigs, including jazz, although artistically I have a very long way to go. Functionally, after one month of study at PSOM a year and bit ago, I entered the second year of the school after a year of private study. This clearly demonstrates to me that a commitment to studying musical facts, and incorporating a structured program of ear training and practicing chord tone studies, is effective. I have a good idea of what I need to be practicing and doing for at least a year or two, and I will be doing a lot more transcribing. I will seek to get a teacher on my return to the UK to help monitor my progress. Frankly, though, I've been spoiled by my lessons with Jeff and the ability to pick Matt's brains regarding harmony. I'll miss the school, and all the friends I made there. Pete

thomann stock them too. it's where I got mine. Pete

Hey Mike Is that ramp radiused? doesn't look like it.... Pete [quote name='urb' post='421577' date='Feb 28 2009, 11:06 AM']Cool - glad the video was helpful - I'm planning to make a more advanced one at some point so no doubt I'll add that here when I do - and you want a ramp picture? Here's mine: Cheers Mike[/quote]

Sorry mate, not sure why it's getting returned. I'll PM you! Pete [quote name='mcgraham' post='418123' date='Feb 24 2009, 09:10 AM']Sorry guys! All PMs replied to. My apologies for keeping you all waiting. As I said in my message, I was away on holly holidays for a few days. Now back and rocking and rolling. Let me know how you get on with them. I've now sent out at least 30 copies of these together with some tips. Any more feedback? Or is it too soon to ask for any? Mark EDIT: Resent the email, someone's email address returned the forwarded email and it doesn't say who's. I've resent it and hopefully it'll work for everyone, or at least tell me who's doesn't accept such large attachments. EDIT 2: Funkle, it's your email address. Do you have another one I could send it to?[/quote]

Mark, You have a PM. Thanks!

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='363937' date='Dec 26 2008, 10:28 PM']Get Barry Green's 'The Inner Game of Music'. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Game-Music-Barry-Green/dp/0330300172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230330370&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Game-Music-B...0370&sr=8-1[/url] You're talking yourself into being nervous. You just need to learn to talk yourself out of it![/quote] +1!!! Pete

Wonderful. The Bach Cello Suites for free!! Thanks for this. Pete

[quote name='eude' post='355828' date='Dec 16 2008, 11:59 AM']Yup, you're bang on. I've arranged to have it picked up Monday and delivered Tuesday too. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to have it delivered to ME on Tuesday, so it's going to my folks' place... I was going to drive down for Christmas on the Wednesday via Glasgow to get my sis, but I think I'll have to drive down on Tuesday night just to get my hands on the bass, I'll just have to drive the extra miles on Wednesday... I've also asked Jon for a photo of the finished bass, just to tide me over. Nearly there... Eude[/quote] Can't wait to see the pics of this! Pete

Lakland DJ4. Great basses. You're done!