The Funk

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='455546' date='Apr 6 2009, 03:14 PM']I am not complaining about people being relatively new to jazz, I am complaining about people at jam sessions that can barely get a note out of their horn let alone phrase an idea.[/quote] I was laughing with you earlier. It's very rare that you get decent tunes / playing at a jam session - and when you do you often get people trying to show off in the most obnoxious way. There's a bop jam at Charlie Wright's near Old Street which has a decent standard. The only trouble is that they're all copping the same Charlie Parker licks and it starts to get a bit repetitive.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='455507' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:42 PM']AAAAAAAARGH! [...] Find something more worthy of your time.[/quote] I'm trying to find an amateur jazz ensemble to join as a beginner. I've got my eye on a big band at the moment. Playing with rubbish musicians might put you off but I like the idea of being able to try things out and make mistakes in a fairly pressure-free environment.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='455258' date='Apr 6 2009, 11:08 AM']To over-simplifiy, play the root on the strongest beats, the fifth on the next strongest and then the minor third and minor seventh on the other beats. Try to make a melody or riff that outlines the chord by using the relevant chord tones (1, m3, 5, m7) and passing notes in between. Also try to make your bassline lead from one chord to the next.[/quote] [quote name='bilbo230763' post='455331' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:38 PM']Depends whether it is a II chord in a Bb major scale or a VI chord in a Eb major scale. Or a I chord in a C minor key or a IV chord in the key of a G minor. It could be a II chord in a melodic minor mode....... [...] You could also play a minor pentatonic (C Eb F G Bb) but this is just the same thing again but with the D and A left out (weaker notes of the scale). Does that help?[/quote] If you look closely, the minor pentatonic Bilbo showed you adds one note to the four chord tones Alex showed you - and as Bilbo pointed out, if you know exactly which Cm7 chord it is, you can add two more note choices.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='455365' date='Apr 6 2009, 01:05 PM']I just want to improve my theory knowledge and listen to some new stuff.... please don't fight :-( [/quote] Listen to as much as possible - but be prepared for uncontrollable violent reactions against some recommendations and don't let that put you off your search. I think that seems to be the message.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='455331' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:38 PM']Depends whether it is a II chord in a Bb major scale or a VI chord in a Eb major scale. Or a I chord in a C minor key or a IV chord in the key of a G minor. It could be a II chord in a melodic minor mode....... I am being facetious. A C minor chord would ususally be a II chord in the major key of Bb so you could play a Bb major scale (Bb C D Eb F G A Bb) or a C dorian (C D Eb F G A Bb C - the same thing but starting on the second note). You could also play a minor pentatonic (C Eb F G Bb) but this is just the same thing again but with the D and A left out (weaker notes of the scale). Does that help?[/quote] It could be a III chord in Ab major too - if it has that particular sound.

[quote name='urb' post='455129' date='Apr 6 2009, 08:38 AM']Well obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but Miles, unlike a lot of people in MOST genres of music, managed to reinvent himself every ten years or so, so to call Bitches Brew 'boring' is only really valid when comparing it to his all acoustic stuff from the 50s and 60s. And 'On the Corner' is some of the baddest funk you'll ever hear, and as for his trumpet playing, each to their own, while he wasn't a moster chops guy, the whole point with how he played (aside from his latter years when he was out of it), was to place a note perfectly in a bar, doing a lot more with a lot less.[/quote] I have poster's remorse today. Like I said, Miles Davis was a great composer, bandleader and innovator and I agree 100% with what you say about him reinventing himself every ten years or so. To go from Bop to Cool to Fusion with everything in between, while still being at the forefront of each movement is extraordinary. Noone else has ever managed anything similar (in any genre of music). But I'm still not a fan of his trumpet playing at all. It works on his records though. As for Mike Stern, I can see he can really play but there's something that's just missing from his playing that I need from music. I much prefer John Schofield - his phrasing really does it for me.

[quote name='YouMa' post='455088' date='Apr 6 2009, 01:12 AM']i think you need to go one way or the other in your bass playing (from reading your other threads) Either get into punk/rock etc or get into funk/jazz/soul etc[/quote] Duff McKagan and Flea are two good bassists who are into both. Stanley Clarke even formed a band with Keith Richards and Ron Wood! Going back to Gn'R's "[i]It's So Easy[/i]", imagine if Duff's bass intro was played with all the notes at the same intensity/volume and the same length. It would be so ordinary. It's all about phrasing.

I play a bit of drums, guitar and keys so that I can understand my role a bit better. In my band I write most of the drum/guitar/keys/vocal parts. It's made me a better bass player. I've also programmed drums in the studio. Seeing bars of music graphically like that is also helpful. I read a really excellent book at university which I can't find in print or online anywhere now. It was from the '50s/'60s and called something corny like "[i]Clap Your Hands[/i]". It had a whole bunch of rhythmic exercises starting from the most basic to really complex patterns. It was all written in notation and you didn't need an instrument to practice on. I used to sit in law lectures tapping on my desk. I'd definitely recommend rhythm studies. You don't have to physically play drums to get there but I think it helps. My drummer likes playing with me because he says it's like playing with a bassist and a percussionist at once. Once you get past basic rhythmic knowledge and understanding, you can start working on your phrasing, by which I mean where you place notes in relation to the beat and how much you accent them in relation to each other. That's when your playing goes from good to great.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454976' date='Apr 5 2009, 10:30 PM']I was getting a bit worried because I thought Miles Davis was *really* boring - sacrilege I believe.[/quote] He [i]is[/i] boring. Great bandleader, composer and innovator but I think his trumpet playing sucks. And don't bother with Mike Stern. The guy's exactly what's wrong with jazz today IMO. Check out some Louis Armstrong, Django Reinhardt, Duke Ellington, Dizzie Gillespie, Miles Davis (his records are brilliant even if I don't like his trumpet playing), Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and Joe Zawinul. Between them they have most things covered!

[quote name='OldGit' post='454598' date='Apr 5 2009, 12:22 PM']Steve Tyler's 61, Mick Jagger's 65 Don't worry about it. I'm not stopping 'till they cart me off ...[/quote] That's the right attitude. It's not like you're in [i]Sparks[/i].

Good sh*t! Sounds like a pretty damn good audition to me! Well done.

Love the outfits! Your lead singer looks like he was about a year or two behind the rest of you.

Yeah, you basically set the gain to get the strongest signal with the least distortion or hiss. There is no magic number as the numbers are meaningless.

For about 3 years I've been thinking about getting hold of a double bass or EUB. As much as I'd love a double bass, I don't have any space in my flat for one - and I don't want any of the hassle of transport/amplification that comes with one. Anyway, for the last year I've been GASing for an Eminence. Then I remembered about an American EUB company I'd looked into a couple of years ago called Azola, so I thought I'd give their site a quick scan. Now I can't decide between the Eminence fixed neck (4-string) and the Azola Carved Acoustic Baby Bass (4-string). The Eminence will work out cheaper but the Azola looks the absolute business! Help me choose! (Feel free to give me other recommendations too).

Oops. There's already [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=44750"]a thread on Ray Brown in the Double Bass forum[/url].

[quote name='Zoe_BillySheehan' post='453832' date='Apr 4 2009, 03:01 AM']oops xx[/quote] Hah. My cousin went out with an American girl who kept asking him about a song by The Clash called [i]London's Garlic[/i].

[quote name='Zoe_BillySheehan' post='453825' date='Apr 4 2009, 02:42 AM']anyone heard 'stand by me' by the clash? is that the same song.... maybe im just bein dumb? Z x[/quote] No, you're thinking of [i]Train In Vain[/i]. This is a cover of The Drifters' [i]Stand By Me[/i]

Damn. Love the photos and stories, guys. In the photos you all look too cool for school.

I liked that.

I watched Jazz 625 on BBC Four earlier tonight and was absolutely blown away by The Oscar Peterson Trio, featuring the legendary Ray Brown on bass. I couldn't believe just how fluid and swinging they were and Ray Brown's playing was simply superb. If you haven't seen it yet, check it out on iplayer - you don't have to be into jazz to like it. I feel a bit stupid now for having revered James Jamerson, Jack Bruce, Stanley Clarke and Jaco as revolutionaries. It's not that they weren't great or important players - Ray Brown was using the bass as a melodic instrument while holding down his rhythm section duties in so much more of a sophisticated way than any of them. I'm worried now about what I'm going to find if I start checking out other upright players like Scott LaFaro. Am I going to switch to upright and defect to jazz? Can any of the jazzers explain to me why none of the big name jazz bassists today sound like they're influenced by Ray Brown? They all sound to me like widdly, gimmicky, watered down, common denominator musicians who aren't really funk, jazz, rock or R&B and who wish they were Jaco. And they all play behind the beat, like driving with the handbrake on. And so many of them double the horn lines on the heads unnecessarily, as if trying to prove that bassists aren't crap musicians by virtue of being able to play the same line as a horn player. I think jazz bassists (along with other jazz instrumentalists) today spend too much time thinking about harmony and not enough time thinking about contrapuntal melody lines. Anyway, not sure how that ended up as a rant. So, who else here digs Ray Brown and what other stuff should I check out, either by him or by other jazz bassists? EDIT: the iplayer link [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b008wdpn/Jazz_625_Oscar_Peterson"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b008w..._Oscar_Peterson[/url]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='453483' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:27 PM']Ibanez are also worthy of a look, too - Particularly something like the SR500. That'd fall into your budget.[/quote] I'm seriously impressed with those basses: tone, playability, finish and price.

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='453380' date='Apr 3 2009, 02:20 PM'][list=1] [*]Don't slap unless its a level 42 tribute band. [/list][/quote] Or they ask you to. And you're good at it.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='453370' date='Apr 3 2009, 02:11 PM']Everytime you want to get a more expensive bass you force yourself to get a more expensive car? I like your lifestyle! [/quote] In the current housing market, it means I might have to move house to keep my basses!

Never heard of anything like this. I'll be following this so I can keep an eye out for any warning signs!

[quote name='GStar' post='453332' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:22 PM']Am i thinking along the right lines - Book first, then perhaps look at sight/ear work?[/quote] Yes but really it's all different routes to the same thing. Eventually you have to understand, recognise and be able to use all the things you're going to be learning. Your ear can improve just as much by playing scales/chords as trying to pick them out from a record. The book will introduce you to reading AND it gets you to play certain chords/scales as examples. If you have access to some kind of keyboard instrument - even a £20 3-octave MIDI controller keyboard - then you'll be able to hear some of the chords we as bass players will be playing against.