fatback

Thanks for the suggestions. @ubassman, I did order the Moore, pity about the treble clef; I've enough confusion to deal with. @basstoker, That Nielsen will be useful. I'll try and get hold of the Streicher. Does the Vance Vol2 explicitly explain crab and give proposed fingering patterns etc? I found Vance vol 1 wasn't much use without a teacher; there's almost no explanation at all. Exercises, basically, and a shoddy product altogether.

[quote name='MandShef' timestamp='1367587727' post='2067296'] Funnily enough I have also been experimenting with using far less rosin after my tutor had the radical suggestion that I only put rosin on the bow when it needs it!!! Previously I'd been in the habit of putting rosin on the bow every time I played, but now I'm trying to feel for when it needs it rather than just putting it on automatically. It seems less is more when it comes to rosin [/quote] +1 I found that playing all the rosin off helped a lot. As for pops being sticky, Honest, i don;t live in an igloo, but my new, second pot is always rock hard and only ever produces dust. Two out of two duff? Love owencf's try-out idea. Mind you what customs would make of small amounts of resiny stuff in envelopes, I don't like to think.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1367526829' post='2066582'] Well you could say the bass cost x but forget to mention the bridge, strings or shipping [/quote] Solved!

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1367235577' post='2062859'] It's a ceramic 1x12", a bit bigger than the Midget but not really any bigger than any other 1x12 on the market. It sounded WONDERFUL, honestly I would compare it to what people traditionally perceive a 1x15 to sound like as opposed to a 1x12. Rich, deep bass, beautiful smooth mids and a lovely velvety top end which was never harsh and never lacking. I have already told Alex I want to buy it once he's finished playing with it and having people beta-test it. I will sell the S12 to do so, it's that good IMO. [/quote] Oh NO! NO! My Midget had cured me of GAS (except for wanting two.) /puts hands over ears. For what it's worth I use mine with upright and an EA Doubler. With mids backed off, I'm told the sound is very good. Very flat response, sounding just like the bass, which is what I want. I think the lack of colour is what bothers some people. But yes, the mids can bark and need a little taming.

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1367404283' post='2065121'] Would it be worth taking a day trip to Dublin. I cant think of any rabbath teachers, but Dominic Dudley, Joe Csibi or Waldemhar(Sp?) are all in the symphony orchestra and could all give you some good basics to get going. [/quote] I might well do that. There are a couple of good teachers within two hours of here, but very restricted availability time-wise. I am fascinated by that rabbath technique though; it seems so logical (if only I could work out what the logic actually was. ) Absolute tragedy that nobody has presented his method in any systematic way. This Hans Sturm series on youtube is as good as it gets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pMdTCmo8g As I said, Art of the Left Hand' is a missed opportunity. I've ordered the Micheal Moore 'Melodic Playing in the Thumb Position' as recommended by Mr Bassman, so looking forward to that. The joke is, I have absolutely no need for thumb position in music i play, so why am i persecuting myself? Then again, what's the point of double bass if it's not torture. Fifty shades of...?

Thanks for all your thoughts. It's not really exercises I'm missing, it's a sensible method for fingerings and thinking through the pathways. For example, some people seem to work by using mainly the harmonics positions for the thumb. Others use every note as a thumb position. Some methods rely on sliding, even when a slide isn't called for. The crab business is supposed to eliminate sliding and, because at least one finger is always playing a note, it anchors the other fingers while they look for the next note. So no guesswork for intonation. I think that's the idea anyhow. It's easy-ish going up the board, but coming back down is hit and miss for me. I don't have any problems crossing strings inside one thumb position; it's getting up and down a single string accurately, shifting the thumb, that I'm after. I don't want to carry on just muddling my way through. As for a Rabbath teacher, if only. I'm in a pretty remote spot here, so any teaching is hard to organise. [quote name='Mr Bassman' timestamp='1367360183' post='2064807'] There are one or two [url="http://www.chappellofbondstreet.co.uk/P~COBS000032787~Melodic-Playing-In-The-Thumb-Position"]books[/url] on the subject [/quote] Thanks for that. I'm a fan of Micheal Moore, so i'll give that one a shot.

I posted about this before, so apologies. I'm trying to get the crab technique sorted for thumb position going down scalewise and in sequences. Any good vids out there? For that matter, any good vids on thumb position playing? I bought Rabbath's wildly overpriced Art of the Left Hand, but no real explanation of the crab technique (s) or thumb position playing in general. Disappointing all round in terms of instruction value, although inspirational as always from the great man (media critique on request ) Ed Friedland's DVD takes a grid approach to TP, but that seems too rigid to me; locking down the transition points from TP to normal and from grid to grid. (Rabbath plays TP all the way to the nut. ) I suppose what i'm looking for is something that gives the best chance of fluidity up in the nether regions, rather than rigid grids, and something that allows real confidence in intonation and doesn't involve compulsory slides (which is where the crab should come in). Am I right that material on TP in general is pretty thin? Is that because everybody has their own technique? I didn't go to all that trouble getting a beautiful thumb callous in order to quit now. So any help hugely appreciated.

[quote name='invicta59' timestamp='1367253297' post='2063207'] Imelda's bassist is Al Gare... you were close with the name.. King Pleasure and the Biscuit Boys. [/quote] Aah, that's it! Years ago, but what a great band. And a great player.

Make sure the dots on the side of the neck are ON the 'fret' positions, not between them as they are on fretted guitars. If they're not, move them or use sticky paper dots. Getting those right will do two things: 1. You'll be able to avoid looking at the lines. 2. You'll be able to use them as a position marker for your thumb. The best road to good intonation imo is to use (mostly) one finger per fret, pivot on the thumb and restrict the thumb positions (on the E string) to F#, G, A, B, E. Essentially, it's the Rabbath double bass method. The reasoning is that if you have a limited number of thumb positions, you limit the amount of arm movement you do. Arm movements are the risk factor for intonation. You can effectively practice the arm movements (thumb positions) alone if you want to and your muscle memory will develop. And not least, you will be able to make the transition to upright (you will, you know ) pretty painlessly. Alright, not painlessly, but easily. I'm only saying here what I found worked for me. I'm nobody's expert, i hasten to add.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1367105703' post='2061432'] Does anyone know how available the Cordes Lambert Gut Twin sets are these days? The vegan came over for a jam tonight and as much as I'd like to try guts it seems like a bit of a dickheadish thing to do to him. So if I can get a set of those I'll try them. [/quote] Don't you wear shoes?

I found the Micheal Moore bass method very systematic and a good companion to the Rufus Reid. Ed Friedland's Jazz Upright Bass DVD (with little booklet) is very, very well put together. Worth every cent.

Blues is a great place to start walking imo. Oscar Peterson, Ray Brown etc.

And will girls look at me like that if I play double bass? Seems to work for him, whoever he is.

I asked once about using two cabs separated by some distance, and the cab guru persons on here seemed to think I might get phase cancellation problems. Just wondering.

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1366122800' post='2048609'] Right, over the course of the last year or so I have now read this whole thread. And paid attention to all of it. What I would like to know now is what are the best warm up/ warm down exercised for the left hand (and right, why not) that can be done surreptitiously before a gig without looking totally mental. [/quote] I do hand exercises while I'm driving to the gig. Flex the wrists forward and back. Wiggle the fingers. Twist the wrists. Clench fists. All this leads to a very warm forearm, so i know I'm doing it right. yes, I get very strange looks when i'm stopped at traffic lights. I admit to occasionally doing it in full view, especially the finger waggling, just to freak people out. They think the very least I'm doing is casting spells. Maybe I am.

Some good tricks on here, including a cool elastic band suspension job. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/67292-upright-foam-wrapped-sm57-under-bridge-pic.html

Nice list, Hector. Sorry about the 'nearly' bit in the 'nearly succeeded'.

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1365777038' post='2044385'] if uour in Edinborough go to the Spiders Web on Morrison St, rockabilly bands monthly, you wont get more up close and personal than there if you want to see how its done. [/quote] Alas it's an age since I've lived there. What a great town.

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1365767952' post='2044159'] For a more contemporary example, check out Imelda May. Her bassist is a fantastic slap player. [/quote] Found out lately he used to play with the fab 'King Biscuit and the Biscuit Boys' (or some name like that). Saw them many times at the Edinburgh festival.

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1365695670' post='2043114'] Why would drones not help you with anything other than 4ths or 5ths? Using them you develop your ear and recognise intervals. [/quote] I've found those to be vastly more subjective and where I'm most often sloppy. I think it's to do with 'just intonation' vs 'taste'. Where you'd pitch thirds, sixths, sevenths should really depend on whether you're going up or down (which means checking with a tuner is probably misleading), but it it imposes some kind of discipline at least. I like to have a reason for things, even if I'm wrong.

Have to disagree about the tuner. I'm not saying use it as a continuous reference (I wouldn't be looking down there anyhow) just use it as an occasional check. So it's not eye training, it reinforces the judgement of your ears. Like with any training, you've got to have feedback to tell you when you're right or wrong. Yes a drone will do as a reference, if you can stand it, but even that's not too helpful apart from 4ths and 5ths. I totally agree that good technique is everything. Of course.

[quote name='Owencf' timestamp='1365600476' post='2041624'] aye ive been swapping when my hand gets tired or sore (correct hand technique required, Im working on it) I keep getting told to hold it less like a pick and more like a light fragile object haha breaking the habit is taking alot of effort. I have noticed that any bum notes sound really fricking obvious when playing arco, though my neighbours havent complained yet but it is allowing me to explore the fingerboard and train my ear a bitty better. umm i dont plan on gigging any time soon...ever, very shy. only picked the Double bass up because of a dare and i like the sound of it. [/quote] If you're in no hurry, then arco is as good a thing to be doing as any, I guess. You might find the tuner on the bridge trick very helpful. Some will hate the idea, but for ear training it can't be beaten imo, as you do need a reference, especially for notes other than 4ths and 5ths. Oh go on, plan on gigging. It's seriously good fun and, if you're shy, a great instrument to hide behind.

Oh dear, I have to disagree, much as I respect Mr. Spangles and Bilbo. Taking on arco too early nearly made me quit. Firstly, there's something fundamentally unwise about learning left and right hands at the same time. No. 1 learning principle is to separate tasks out. A couple of years working with left hand and pizz, and now bowing seems much more straightforward. Secondly, if you want to get gigging fast, arco will slow your progress down and seriously delay your debut. On the intonation front, I perfectly accept that arco will be a great help. But to learn to play pizz in tune is not hard if you use a clip-on tuner on the bridge. Not always, just for checking. Good ear training too. None of the above probably applies if you're twelve years old and don't have a band nagging you to gig the thing.

[quote name='mybass' timestamp='1365509208' post='2040422'] These guys got away with it... [/quote] Love that picture

For learning theory the internet is a godsend. Different explanations for the same thing will click with different people. Something to do with styles of thinking, I guess. Theory was a big problem when there were only books; if you got the 'wrong' book for you, that was a deterrent. Now you can google like mad, read 10 different (but quality) explanations for something, and I guarantee one will click with you. Over time, you put the bits of the jigsaw together. Well worth every minute of your time.