fatback

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1361796882' post='1990905'] My ply bass doesn't sound half as good as my carved bass amplified. Another factor is the gear you're using to do the amplification (pickup particularly), and how loud you need to go. Yes amplifying a bass is always a compromise but how far do you compromise? At one end of the scale you can get a very good reproduction of the sound of an acoustic bass, at the other end you can go very loud but you might as well be playing an electric. Generally I disagree with this 'ply is fine for x' thing. [/quote] On the other hand, you hear a lot of people saying that they find it harder to control feedback with solid basses? The point about the type of music being played is important. Everything is a trade-off, and I wouldn't want more feedback problems or climate control problems for the sake of any improvement in the sound beyond the quality I've got. There's general playability too. For a beginner that, arguably, matters a lot. if you're lucky enough to find a ply bass that plays well, that can be a great place to start.

Take your time; it's a big decision and demands a lot of research. You're lucky to have the EUB to play while you're looking. When I bought mine, I didn't have a clue, so there was no point going round trying lots of basses. What i did have was a good checklist thanks to the helpful folks on here. The considerations that mattered were: Fingerboard - ebony, not 'ebonised', although other hard woods are ok. Body - ply or ply/solid top. The last is a great compromise. Full solid can be harder to control feedback. All-ply is fine for amplified situations anyhow. Strings - Doesn't matter, as you'll change them sooner or later. Allow extra cash for this. Luthier setup - you'll probably get this done, so more cash. Pickup - Allow plenty extra cash over say a year for lots of experiments. Preamp - ditto, unless you have an amp designed for upright. Bow - No big hurry with this, although others would say different. You should be able to get a suitable bass and setup for a grand-ish. Does it matter whether it's new or used? I'd say you'll get a better bass for your money used, but it'll take a lot longer and it's harder to get right if your knowledge is limited. I went on trust and it worked out fine. Most sellers on here would be straight about what they're selling. As for saving up for a good bass, if you mean to gig the thing in pubs you don't want a good bass. Now a [i]second, [/i]quality bass and bow would be very nice. Notice how many times the word 'cash' cropped up? Never mind. Best money you'll ever spend.

I've got a Kent Armstrong as a backup for the piezo. It fits with a couple of studs drilled up into and parallel with the fingerboard. It's black and shaped to the contour of the board, so visually you'd hardly notice it. I got my luthier to fit it as I didn't fancy the drilling bit. Good sound, not too p-bassish, and it's reassuring to know it's there.

[quote name='alistair Sutcliffe' timestamp='1361630118' post='1988518'] I'm sure you're right about the cutaway. It suits me because all i do is go plonk boom twang in a rock n roll band but i can see how it could be a problem for anything more challenging. [/quote] I've never had the chance to try one with that cutaway, but I'd have thought that getting into in the 'D' thumb position would be much easier. I've yet to find a pin length or bass angle that lets me do that 100% reliably without the forearm being obstructed. Mind you, grass is greener etc.

[quote name='alistair Sutcliffe' timestamp='1361567731' post='1987847'] That Framus is indeed gorgeous. [/quote] STOP!

Congrats to you! Nice looking bass and a useful review. I wish I had that cutaway shoulder shape on mine. Never knew I had short arms until i got into thumb position.

I've heard the great Rabbath say that all good music is made up of questions and answers. I'm finding that a helpful way to think of some aspects of phrasing.

Two bass guitars, one upright, and I wish I could play any of them.

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1360846458' post='1977267'] My girlfriend gives me hassle for having three electric basses taking up space, but four DB's in the house??? I would never get away with just one! [/quote] How many gfs is too many?

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1360845984' post='1977257'] Mabye worth experimenting with this ? - seems to be a bent end pin that fits into a standard 10mm socket without re-drilling [url="http://www.slavapub.net/Endpins-Bent_endpin.html"]http://www.slavapub....ent_endpin.html[/url] [/quote] Looks well worth a try. I'm gonna wait till I settle on an endpin length though. I keep changing mine atm.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1360844678' post='1977220'] NBD: Bass has arrived at home. I'm stuck at work for the rest of the afternoon - and can hardly spend all evening playing with it as it's St Valentine's day... [/quote] Buy it a few roses and a box of chocolates?

Of course. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIMNXogXnvE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIMNXogXnvE[/url] I want this played at my funeral. Really

Helpful thread this. It's encouraged me to experiment and to think, and I hadn't been doing enough of that. I tried the John Clayton 'longer pin and angle it out' approach and it's working out well. I can have a long pin and reach right down the full length of the fretboard without bending. Before, not only did I have to bend but the bout of the bass got under my armpit and in the way. I can stand straight for pizz now, although for arco nearer the tailpiece (as distinct from mid way between bridge and tailpiece) , I still have to bend too much. Not sure anything can be done about that, and it's really only a problem in the 'D' thumb position and higher. I noticed that the angled bass really needs a flick of the hip, when coming out of thumb position, to get a decent left hand posture, but maybe I always did that and am only noticing now I'm aware of posture more. Altogether a real improvement. Only downside is that the angled bass tends to slip, a problem I never had before. I've got one of those jointed sucker feet jobs, so i might try that. All very interesting and helpful, and thanks to OP and all for encouragement to take this seriously.

Matt Lawton's got a few jazz transcriptions on here. http://mattlawtonbass.blogspot.co.uk/p/transcriptions.html Thanks Matt

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1360498681' post='1971195'] Anyone play with a bent Laborie endpin ? [i]"The bent endpin was developed for me by the luthier Horst Grünert. Its purpose is to change the center of gravity of the double bass so that a standing player will feel less weight on the thumb supporting the neck. In my approach to the instrument the left hand has access to both ends of the fingerboard and the bow arm can apply weight equally on the four strings without the necessity of turning the instrument. The bent endpin encourages an “opening” of the face of the bass and obliges the player to stand erect. Since the bass is at a steeper angle to the player it is automatically natural to apply the weight of both arms, especially the bow arm, with relaxed weight rather than muscular pressure. Notice also that the sound of the instrument is projected more efficiently at this angle." Francois Rabbath[/i] [url="http://www.uptonbass.com/UPGRADE-upright-double-Bass-Endpin-Angle-tilt-Block/"]http://www.uptonbass...gle-tilt-Block/[/url] [/quote] Rabbath demonstrates the thing in 'art of the bow'. Pretty convincing. Gareth Hughes mentioned using one way back and recommends it highly. I don't know of anyone else on here who does. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/124515-rabbath-v-simandl/"]http://basschat.co.u...bath-v-simandl/[/url]

Also, sitting would get me fired.

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1360350948' post='1969236'] Kev it's really hard to describe in words, but basically you can have the back of the lower right bout against your left knee which prevents the bass from pivoting out of position, if you place the bass slightly forward then the natural tendency is for it to pivot forward on it's left axis which you prevent with your knee. [/quote] Ooh thanks. I'll give it a try too. There's also the conundrum of bass height. I know I have good posture for pizz with the bass low (approx. nut at eyebrow level), as I can play without bending my back, with a straight wrist and without having the arm too high. But with the bass at this height, arco demands I bend my back, which can't be good. Also, because of the bending, the nut is much closer to my left ear and forces a more bent wrist. Not good either. If i use a longer end pin, the shoulder aches from holding the arm too high. I'm wondering whether a good compromise is just not possible. It's not as if i have especially short arms and I'm 5ft10, so i doubt it's build as such. I have a feeling arco is going to cause me grief if I don't solve this. Useful thread, by the way.

As Phil Starr said you could find yourself losing frequencies. I tried my BF Midget on a keyboard stand and lost so much volume that for gigs I had to drive it until it was farting out. No good at all. And that's normally a very loud cab. Raising the cab 18" or so works ok, although floor level with a tilt is better.

+ 1 to the luthier setup. Worth every penny. You might try to save a few quid by buying used strings on here. i did that and it worked out great.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1360278292' post='1968149'] When I first started playing double bass I struggled to hold it for quite a while. How long have you been playing the Palatino? For the record these days it feels like having a drunk friend to cuddle, it's all good until I get the bow out and then I realise how much I rely on right thumb to steady it. [/quote] Just what i was thinking yesterday in practice. I have to keep it angled against my hip or all mobility in the left hand vanishes. This is where an angled endpin would come in, I guess, but not an easy thing to organise. OP, sorry for the hijack.

Looks like my pops was old stock then as it's never soft even in very warm surroundings. As I didn't know any better, I've been struggling ever since I got the stuff. @ ubassman, that tip about buying from the manufacturer makes sense. No doubt advice on this is where a teacher would have rescued me (if I wasn't living in the sticks). Youtube is just not up to communicating 'stickiness'.

Why is my Pops so hard? Really only looking into this now, as I'm concluding it's behind some of my arco troubles. OK, the tub is a couple of years old now, but it was hard from when I bought it, and I read that it should be soft at room temperature. No chance; it's like glass. When applied it's powdery not sticky, and the end result is a sliding bow unless I press down too much or play staccato. Strings are spiro weichs. Warming the stuff in the hand doesn't soften it. I have to sit it on a radiator, and that doesn't seem right. Should just dump it and get some more? Try a different kind? Thanks for any advice. I really want to progress at this.

Horses for courses etc. I'm starting to GAS for an EUB, cos I'm fed up with carting the db to practices. The band would never let me gig one though, even if it sounded identical. I fear it may be because the upright attracts all the attention so nobody is looking at me.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1360093336' post='1964791'] The cab sounds fine when raised, and when it's at a show. My main boom is in my practice space. the room has always been bad, even had boom with a lot of the barefaced cabs I've had before. I want to raise it just get it closer to my ear. Short cabs regardless of how 'good' they are have always sounded terrible to me sat on the floor, as I can't hear the damn thing, my ears are on my head not in my damn ankles. [/quote] Some acoustic foam under the cab or even the front bottom edge of the cab will probably sort the boom if it's to do with the floor resonating. Whether it's a gramma or something else doesn't matter. Honest, it works. Do be careful about raising the cab too much though. Losing reinforcement from the floor reflection can cost a fair bit of oomph in my experience. More than a couple of feet might be too much.

Thanks for this, great.