flyfisher

I've always thought these sort of situations are determined by average utilisation of whatever it is being hired out. Simplistically, if you need to make £400 per week hiring something out but you usually average 4 days of hire per week then the daily rate would have to be £100. If someone wants to book a full week then that would be £500, or more than average, so you could afford to offer a 20% discount and still make your target.. Or offer 10% and give and take a bit extra. Or keep it all. Or keep an eye on what the competition do.

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1401359468' post='2462747'] People always bring the '6 Plumbers out at midnight' quote which is irrelevant really. I was being sarcastic [/quote] Fair enough . . . In which case we're on the same page.

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1401358044' post='2462722'] I do plumbing for free in my spare time for enjoyment..... [/quote] Have you never done anything for anyone without being paid for it? It's a tired old argument that leads nowhere. So what if plumbers charge a small fortune to come out at 9pm to fix a tap? If you want that sort of money, become a plumber - after all, it's a lot easier than playing an instrument!

Interesting posts, and they all just show that there are no rules and no 'list prices'. No doubt most bands just want to make as much money as possible and I'm sure if a pub offered £1500 for a night no one would turn around and say "no guv, that's way too much, the going rate is only £250". Everything is negotiable, but not everything is a deal.

As above, there are plenty of tools available - the real challenge is to get people to use them. And then stick to them!

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1401297708' post='2462220'] What you charge is that its worth to you to do that specific gig and they either hire you or they don't. Other peoples expectations and what you may or may not have done gigs for before are irrelevant so long your getting the work (just like in any other business), you dont owe anyone any explanations. [/quote] That would be my take on it, though if you're in it as a business then it would be wise to have some sales material to help win the booking. I've only played one wedding, for friends of some of the band members. It was quite a big affair but done on a small budget with all the bride and grooms friends and family helping out. A few people did the catering, someone made the bride's dress, posh cars were loaned by friends, someone else made the cake, a friend took photos while another shot a video - all held outdoors in a remote pub's garden and grounds. Oh yes, and we played for free as our contribution. It might not have been a posh, expensive 'corporate' wedding but it was the greatest fun wedding I've ever been to, and the happy couple didn't have to re-mortgage their house to pay for it all. Still, that's what friends are for eh?

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1401276224' post='2461885'] i didnt find it all that visually entertaining either - but then it was in daylight so no flashy multicouloured lighting effects some people just have low (or no) standards i guess [/quote] Oh, I entirely agree with you, just trying to put another perspective on things. Perhaps the audience have never been to a live gig before so it's the best thing they've ever experienced?

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1401279896' post='2461941'] The above are all true in practical terms, but I would argue that the futile endless pursuit of the perfect bass/tone/rig is a hobby quite separate from the music. Hobbies are used as distraction/catharsis/relaxation/time away from spouse etc. and that in itself can* be a good thing. *not guaranteed. Please use responsibly. Side effects may include damage to bank balance and/or relationships. [/quote] Exactly right. In much the same way that some people obsess over their hi-fi cables or pimp their cars. The measurable effects on performance is miniscule at best, but it provides them with great pleasure so what's the harm?

These sort of events are not just about the music are they? It's a whole visual and social experience as well. Also, 'fans' will already know the song and will internally enhance what they are actually hearing with their memories from listening to it many times before, so the mix quality doesn't really matter and even bum notes will probably be missed as well while the brain is dealing with all that visual input. Bottom line is that loads of people are enjoying the experience so, for them, it's all good.

Fair enough, but 'arctic' cables are really intended for applications below 5C (generally outdoors) and H07 are specifically recommended for stage and other flexibility applications. Arctic cable: http://www.electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/33/arctic-cables.cfm?type=pdf Flexible cable: http://www.electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/31/cables.cfm?type=pdf From the second reference: [i][b]The Use of Arctic Cable[/b][/i] [i]. . . . The cable can often be seen supplying caravans or used at live musical events, it can even be purchased from DIY shops in the form of a readymade extension reel with BS 1363 13 A accessories for use at 230 V 1Ø. As can be seen from Table 7B of BS 7540, the cable was not designed for and is not suitable for these purposes.[/i]

I thought that "arctic" cable simply [u]retains [/u]its flexibility at low temperatures, which is a different thing to being more flexible at room temperature. I think whizzzy has it right about H07. It's specifically recommended for stage applications. http://www.h07rnfcable.co.uk/

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1401200998' post='2461085'] When i lived in the country it was long before karaoke was invented. The highlight was the annual wellie wanging competition followed by booting a pig's head from one village to another. Them were the days! [/quote] You actually went to another village?

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1401137623' post='2460533'] It's a tribute to all those tribute bands that this thread is still going.......on.........and on.......and on. [/quote] Perhaps we should start a tribute topic . . . .

[quote name='Prosebass' timestamp='1401066571' post='2459766'] Next up someone will be telling us what a wonderful expressive artform karaoke is! [/quote] Well, karaoke is just singing along to a backing track isn't? The sort of things that every solo singer does all the time it's just that some singers are better than others.

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1401106872' post='2460061'] Ashdown are a good example. Continually slated for sounding woolly or as if someone is holding a blanket to the cab...I used one, an 810, the other day and thought it sounded very articulate. It was clear and well defined in the band mix. I'd certainly not be put of the brand. I've also got mates who use them. [/quote] Indeed, and there are plenty of pro players who use Ashdown, as there are for almost any decent brand of gear. And need I mention how Macca's 'crappy' cheap old bass has held him back over the years . . . .

+1 The world is full of opinions and it's the job of the questioner to seek out answers from the multitude of opinions available, not the job of the opinionated to mould their opinions to satisfy the questioner. Such things can be difficult enough when actual facts are involved, but when the subject is purely subjective such as 'good music' or 'best tone' then it's even more tricky.

Where would music be without entertainment? Surely the real conclusion is that there is room for all forms of music . . . Even karaoke and elevator Muzak. You just have to choose the stuff you like and allow others to do the same.

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1401088943' post='2459810'] Ah, a perfect example of grabbing the wrong end of the stick and proceeding to beat about the bush with it! [/quote] I was going to make a similar point, as Diablo was referring to the cost of a 'hit' rather than the 'worth' as mentioned by the OP

Regardless of what? Why care what anyone else thinks? If you like it then it's good. For you anyway, and what else really matters?

I prefer this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbEz1mvQyvY

Very interesting article. Anyone know any rich Russians with an upcoming birthday?

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1400950260' post='2458504'] I've just looked on t'internet and it seems that there are SIX Rutles tribute bands!!! [/quote] The whole Rutles thing is really funny but there's no doubting the musical pedigree of the band members and Neil Innes did a remarkable job of capturing the 'vibe' of the wide variety of Beatles songs. Even better than Oasis really

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1400948380' post='2458477'] What about a Milli Vanilli tribute act, or Boney M? Would it be wrong to mime to songs that were mimed by the original acts that were supposed to have performed them , but in fact didn't? You would in fact be being more authentic by performing to a backing track created by someone else. [/quote] Ha! Interesting point. I guess this would also apply to Monkees tribute bands, although I think they may have played themselves later in their career.

I was on a train from Cambridge recently and bunch of young lads looked like they were returning from some form of musical outing, one of whom was pushing a 'shopping trolly' with a car battery and inverter strapped to it. I'd agree with the above comments about 'leisure' batteries though it rather depends on how much charge is taken from a car-type battery before it is recharged. My tractor has no working alternator so I use a standard battery charger once a month or so to charge it, even though I regularly start the engine, and the battery is still in good condition after more than five years. So, like a lot of these questions, the answer can often start with 'it depends . . . .'. As for types of inverters, probably the simplest method is to think in terms of watts and efficiencies. In a perfect world, a 50W amplifier would require 50 watts of power to operate. In practice it won't be 100% efficient so let's be pessimistic and assume it's only 50% efficient, which means it will need 100 watts to operate. So we'd need (as a minimum) an inverter with 100 watts of output . . . except that the inverter won't be perfect either, so let's again assume 50% efficiency, which means it will need 200 watts of power input to give 100 watts of output. So we have a 12 volt battery that must supply 200 watts to an inverter so it can provide 100 watts to the amp so it can provide 50 watts of sound output. 200 watts from a 12 volt battery means about 17 amps. A typical car battery might be rated at 75Ah, meaning 'amp-hours', meaning 1 amp for 75 hours or 75 amps for 1 hour or something in between. In practice it would not be good to totally discharge the battery so assume a rating of at least twice as much as will actually be required between charging. So, from the above figures, we're assuming we need 17 amps from a car battery to power a 50W amp. Let's say we want to play for 3 hours, which means we will draw 17 x 3 = 51 amp-hours from the battery. Apply the 200% 'rule' described above and that gives a battery rating of about 100Ah. So, a 100Ah car battery and a 200W inverter should be more than enough for a 50W amp. I say 'more than enough' because my above efficiency assumptions are pessimistic, so make your own assumptions and recalculate the numbers above. Also, any amp is unlikely to be run at full volume, so a 50W amp might actually only be used at 25W, which would have a big effect on the above numbers. Or, a 50W amp might not be suitable at all for the purposes envisaged. Again, choose your own numbers for the above calculations.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1400877403' post='2457903'] I'm sure that the experts on here will tell me different but there can't be many (if any) symphony orchestras that perform music by just one composer (the original thread was about tribute bands). Cover bands are another subject altogether. [/quote] Fair point, but if the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra plays a concert of only Beethoven pieces, does that make it a 'tribute band' on that particular night and a 'covers band' on the nights when it plays pieces by more than one composer? Similarly, what about bands that play original and cover songs? I've played sets that are totally original, totally covers and a mixture of the two - all with the same band. Is there a tendency to get too hung up on tributes/covers/originals, not to mention all the genres within them, and end up losing track of whats really important - well-played music that actually entertains people!