flyfisher

So there is - I was obviously too traumatised by the others to notice! Perhaps budding Seasick Steve's would buy something like those, although I don't think he bothers with six strings much.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26512382 Seems like a very optimistic business plan to me, but who knows? Thankfully, they don't seem to have any basses.

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1397988525' post='2429176'] This isnt just about music shops though. Time and time again local shops think 'service' is being able to process payments quickly [/quote] Agreed, not just music shops, the same issue is everywhere. John Lewis is a notable exception in my experience.

[quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1397978166' post='2429067'] Shops blame online competition, but I don't see that really. It is how the customer perceives the service and how you stock and present goods the customer wants to buy. [/quote] Customer service is about the only competitive advantage a shop has compared to online selling. If they don't excel at it then what else can they offer? Perhaps music shops are surviving on the business of inexperienced customers buying instruments and gear for the first time and therefore not really sure what they want or who can't tell when they are being fobbed off. I'd guess most BCers are beyond that stage and are more knowledgable and, therefore, more critical. Let's face it, everyone gets annoyed at sales assistants who can't actually help because they know less about things than the customer - in all branches of retailing.

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1397950948' post='2429016'] There is a great outdoorsy/camping/army surplus store in Burton on Trent, about thirty miles from where I used to live. I used to go there quite often but I hadn't had an a excuse for a while and I was looking for a hat. Being the kind that liked to support proper local shops I decided to order a hat from their website, rather than use an online only shop. I ordered the hat in my exact size from the range of sizes they said they had. The £4 postage would have probably been less than the cost of petrol to get there and back. A week or so later the hat turned up, several sizes too small and the label said "one size fits all" which is always an absolute lie. Got I touch with the shop and they admitted that they were entirely at fault and that they only have the hat in one size, so they said they would refund me the price of the hat and the postage both ways. They lied about that, too. They refunded the price of the hat but not the postage, so I ended up paying £8 for absolutely nothing. Never went back to that shop again either. [/quote] 30 mile round trip in a private car would cost £27 according to HMRC allowances (45p/mile), and they're not known for being overly generous. Petrol alone would be £8.85 assuming £1.30/litre and 40mpg. Inexcusable to lie about the return postage though. I wonder what their online T&Cs stated? But you raise an interesting point. I wonder how many millions of miles and hours of time are wasted by people travelling to the shops for stuff they don't find?

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1397947836' post='2429002'] It's just retailers nowadays. I ordered a book from a seller on ebay. I had an email saying they'd posted it, so I waited, and waited, and waited. Then I emailed them to ask where it was, only to receive an immediate refund from them. OK, so it was good they refunded me, but why advertise the book in the first place, and why email me to say they'd posted it, if they hadn't ? [/quote] Hmm. What makes you assume that they didn't have the book or didn't actually post it to you? How about it getting lost in the post and they refunded you without question? I've had a few issues over the years with online purchases but have never had to argue to get a refund. My feeling is that online retailers jump through hoops to ensure customers feel safe to buy online, even at the occasional cost to them of 'bad' customers. A friend just bought a new Gibson six-string. He'd been wanting to for a while but couldn't get to try out his shortlisted models at the same time in one shop, so he bought all three from Thomann. They arrived the following day, he spent a few days playing with all of them, finally made his choice and sent the other two back. Because it was only a matter of days, his credit card was refunded before the monthly payment became due so he didn't even need to pay out more than the one he finally bought - and it was significantly cheaper than he'd seen in any of the local shops. Who could ask for more? Frankly, I don't know why anyone buys stuff in shops any more. It's a hassle to get into town, a hassle to park when you get there (and often expensive), the sales assistants can be surly and unhelpful (as so many here have recounted), you don't really get enough time to really get a feel for whatever you're hoping to buy and if you make a purchase mistake it's at the discretion of the shop whether to exchange the product or give a refund - which is generally only a credit note anyway. In contrast, buying online means no travel hassle, no parking costs, no grumpy assistants and a week or so to use the item in the comfort of your own home and be totally sure it's right for you - and if it's not then you are legally guaranteed a full refund. I realise this is tough news for the retail industry but what are we supposed to do, reverse progress? Times change - if they didn't, we wouldn't even be playing electric basses would we?

I wonder about the need to struggle with anything large and heavy these days. We played a gig yesterday afternoon in a pub garden (bit cool, but nice and sunny) and I took my TC Electronic BH250 and RS210 cab. Because it was an outdoor gig I also had my RS212 in the car just in case I needed a bit more volume but in the end I didn't need it. The vocal-only PA was a Yamaha stagepas 212 (200W I think) and that was also more than adequate. OK, we're not a thrash-metal-bleeding-ear band but I'm increasingly of the view that it really isn't necessary to play so loud that people have to shout into someone's ear from 6 inches just to make themselves heard. Most people (I presume) don't play their music at home at volumes necessitating ear defenders so why is it necessary at a gig? Perhaps this is just another in the long list of reasons why pubs are in decline?

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1397667929' post='2426306'] And from the French, Right=a droit: =clever, done well. Left =gauche =clumsy,unsure. [/quote] And from the English: Right = right Left = wrong

Yes, something simple, sounds like a faulty socket to me. There's a springy bit of metal in the socket that is pushed aside by the tip of the plug when inserted and it then springs back into the groove of the plug tip - or it should do. Over time this contact can lose its springyness and not fully move back to make contact with the groove of the plug tip. the fact that you can force it to work (make contact) by pushing the plug at an angle suggests to me that this is the cause of your problem. It's not uncommon. Sometimes it's possible to insert a small screwdriver into the socket and bend the tip contact back towards the middle of the socket, but you need to have a reasonable mental image of what you're doing as if you bend it too far then it will block the plug when inserted rather than be pushed aside. Another option is to remove the scratchplate and expose the rear of the socket. you should then be able to see the offending contact and see what's happening when the plug is inserted. A pair of thin-nosed pliers can usually be used to bend back the contact so that it makes good contact with the plug tip. The final option is to replace the socket with a new one. Very easy to do if you can solder and have the right tools. If you don't fancy trying any of those thing then a visit to your nearest guitar shop should find you someone who can repair the bass for you . . . . probably by doing one of the above things.

[quote name='mcarp555' timestamp='1397666858' post='2426282'] Second, it very much is discrimination, and I'm not going to apologize for that word. It is what is, and if it makes people uncomfortable, tough. [/quote] [i][size=4][font=arial]And sorry righties, despite many requests, we have not and never will make a right handed Gaskell guitar. That's just plain wrong![/font][/size][/i] http://www.gaskellguitars.com/aboutus.html Discrimination or chips on shoulders?

So you'll be happy when all us 'righties' lobby Gaskell Guitars in an attempt to force them to offer right handed guitars?

Interesting figures, thanks. I didn't realise that 20-ish people could make such a difference to a landlord (assuming they all buy 5 pints . . . which would be a very serious session for me!).

[quote name='mcarp555' timestamp='1397639281' post='2425843'] I agree with many of the comments above from builders and dealers - they are the ones stuck in the middle. Guitar companies make (as I've mentioned before) the one or two models (usually only in black). Every LH player sees them in every shop, and we don't want them. Many left-hand players refuse to ever buy another black instrument as long as they live. So there they sit, gathering dust. Dealer tells the manufacturer "It's not selling", manufacturer says, "See? They don't sell! Why should we make more?", and the circle continues. [/quote] I'm not clear about this point. Are you saying that shops only tend to stock black lefties or that black is the only colour the manufacturers use? I can understand someone not wanting a black bass, but I can't understand why the colour would put them off trying one. After all, the colour doesn't affect tone or playability does it? If they like it, then surely they could order it in the colour they want?

[quote name='mcarp555' timestamp='1397638027' post='2425824'] Why can't it change again? [/quote] What, exactly, is it that you're asking to change? Music shops to stock up with equal numbers of left and right guitars/basses, even if it risks financial suicide for them?

Out of interest, what constitutes 'a following' for a typical pub band? How many extra drinkers would make the landlord think that £250 for the band is worthwhile?

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1397599813' post='2425633'] But the trouble is that the casual punter won’t come back. [/quote] How can you be sure? Doesn't 'casual' mean just that? They might be so casual that they don't bother at all. They might walk past a pub gig one week, then drop in on another next week, if they see a crap band they'll probably leave after a pint, if they're good they might still leave after a pint because they're 'casual' about music, not massive fans. If they see a good band, they might stay, but they might not if the footy or the F1 recap is on instead. They're just casual about it all. Pretty difficult to build a business (or a band following) out of casual punters. Maybe that's the problem - people becoming increasingly casual about music? Dad has nailed it. Times change - always have, always will - and regulation won't stop it.

[quote name='mcarp555' timestamp='1397587090' post='2425474'] The market will [u]only[/u] expand when they know we're out here. How will they know? We have to [i]let[/i] them know. Economic disparity is not something we have to put up with. Only if we allow it to go on will it continue. I hate to see people make excuses for guitar companies. I honestly don't care about their problems. If they cannot make equipment for everyone, they're probably in the wrong business. As I've said, it's not like left-handed people suddenly appeared out of nowhere. If they can't be bothered, let 'em go out of business. Write and complain. Complain and write. The situation simply will not improve if we go around making excuses for them. Tough s**t in my book. [/quote] Of course they know you're out there and what's more they know exactly how many left hand instruments you buy. And guess what - it's less than right-hand ones! You may not care about their problems, so why should they care about yours? They don't HAVE to make left-hand instruments at all do they?

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1397592704' post='2425549'] Do you play many pub gigs?? There are always punters who are not regular gig goers who will wander in off the street to see some live entertainment. If they see a good band that puts on a decent show they will probably come back for more next week. If the band is terrible they will make a point of not coming back! [/quote] Probably not many compared to a semi-pro band, I played about 20 gigs last year across both bands and about 1/3rd of them in pubs. I recognise your scenarios and am sure it happens but my feeling is that is must surely be self-regulating. A really good band has nothing to fear and a really bad band will not last long. Yes, casual punters may walk into a pub if they hear live music and buy a pint, but they'll also soon leave if the band is no good. If enough people never come back then the pub will stop having bands - paid or not. [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1397592704' post='2425549'] Landlords who know what they are doing will try and pick and choose their bands and obviously be prepared to pay. However, if you play the pub circuit you will have noticed that in the last ten years there has been an increase in landlords who really don’t know the pub trade at all, yet alone live entertainment (as pointed out by Skank above a while ago). These are the type who tend to be seduced by the idea of getting something for nothing and then will moan about bands emptying pubs! [/quote] Again, I'm sure that's all correct but I suspect it's symptomatic of bigger things. The music business has changed immensely over recent decades and, as we've discussed many times, music is a much-devalued commodity these days. That's not to say that it's not important to people, more that they've become accustomed to not having to pay very much for it, while having more of it at their fingertips than they can actually listen to in their whole lifetime. PC recording technology and the internet has made it possible for bands to easily put out their music such that the world is now awash with music. Some might be crap but some is fantastic . . . but, hasn't that always been the way?

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1397589951' post='2425511'] It’s the poor people that to pubs that put these type of bands on that I feel sorry for. Too many casual punters have had to endure terrible performances from bands that are not good enough to get paid. Hardly encourages them to support live music does it? [/quote] Do you really think people are stupid enough to 'endure terrible performances'? And, as everyone keeps saying, if landlords are only interested in selling beer then they are hardly likely to allow a band to play if it drives away customers - paid or free. This all sounds like sour grapes to me. I can understand why bands that want to earn money with their playing get all upset about other bands that are happy to play for a few free drinks, but that's life. What next, shall we all get upset about how PC technology and the internet is allowing amateur bands to put out their own music, thereby 'undercutting the professionals'? Things might be tough for the aspiring professional musician but calls for increased regulation to restrict things just to give themselves a better chance is tantamount to admitting their own failure.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1397570975' post='2425236'] You ( I ) just knew a relaxation of the licensing laws would not help... It did exactly what we all knew it would do... allow more venues carte blanche to do what ever they wanted . . . [/quote] Imagine that! Removing red tape and allowing people to do what they want, when they want, how they want. But that's the trouble with freedom . . . People do what they want with it

. . . or a choice of what to play.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1397545683' post='2424904'] Do I or would ! want some sort of affilated register for bands and venues that accompanies a license or something. Yes, I think I would.... so if that means bands need PLI and PAT, for example and venues need the same and a certified stage wiring loom etc etc... then that is good if only for a safety POV. Once you have had to pay for that... then the game isn't free anymore, it costs... [/quote] Oh dear. Centralised regulation of music. What a dreadfully depressing picture of an authoritarian state that paints. It's a valid opinion of course, but not one that I would ever like to see implemented.

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397498062' post='2424527'] They're not "brave words" - it's a simple fact. Hall wouldn't sue because selling a legitimate Rickenbacker is 100% legal in every way. The man might like to bluff and bluster but that doesn't make him an idiot. [/quote] Here's a simple fact. Nigel Evans MP was recently found to be innocent of the legal charges brought against him, so what has he got to worry about? Well, apart from all the time, stress and a £130,000 bill for legal costs in fighting his corner. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27018264 The point is that even though it might be 100% legal to sell a genuine Rickenbacker and that any legal action would almost certainly fail, it doesn't mean that you can be certain about how someone else will react and it doesn't mean you can be sure of not being drawn into an expensive and time-consuming defence of your actions. Some things might be worth that risk - I'd suggest that a used bass guitar is not one of them.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1397495473' post='2424492'] I suppose that the problem (if there be one) is that music is one of the few business sectors where hobbyists can provide services in a commercial environment. [/quote] Agreed, though I might question 'one of the few'. I've known people use a friend for their wedding photos or a video. Many arable farmers are more than happy to allow shooting enthusiasts to rid their land of vermin. Someone else has already mentioned mentioned volunteer marshals at motor racing circuits. St Johns Ambulance is largely reliant on volunteers (as was the London Olympics as I recall) and I'm sure there are many other examples. Before "Indignant from Tunbridge Wells" chimes in to point out that such things are a travesty and taking advantage of people, well that could well be the case, except that the only people who are really in a position to judge are those willing to do such things for no financial reward. Those among us who would feel aggrieved about such arrangements are not going to participate are they? So what's the problem? The argument of 'it spoils things for others who want to be paid' would lead us all down a very rocky road - one that has been tried, tested and found seriously wanting during the 'good old' days of the closed shop. Do we really want to return to such times and be challenged about what gives us the right to play a musical instrument, unless we're in the MU of course?

Both fair comments. All I'm asking is that people accept there are alternative motivations, because people are all different and there is no single right or wrong. I'm surprised this is so difficult to accept.