flyfisher

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1397487675' post='2424394'] Would it be down to the owners of the site if someone did advertise a fake bass ? I doubt it, it'd be the responsibility of the seller. [/quote] You might be right, you might be wrong - but either way it's not relevant because the only way to really find out would be to contest any action that JH might bring. BC doesn't want that hassle. Not even the risk of it. End of story.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1397475910' post='2424197'] If there's nothing wrong with that - why refer to them as 'miserable' ? [/quote] Fair point. There must be a better word for someone who won't get out of bed unless they're being paid.

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1397485139' post='2424356'] Is it really "gnawing the bone" asking if there is any change in opinions after about a year? [/quote] Asking the question again after about a year is more like licking the bone and may be fair enough. The gnawing starts when the simple 'no' seems too difficult for some people to understand.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1397474144' post='2424164'] No ones answered my question yet, how come Talkbass allows sales of Rickenbacker basses ? And how do they vet (if they even do) whether a bass is the genuine article ? [/quote] An interesting question, but wouldn't it be better to ask it on Talkbass?

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1397469172' post='2424109'] I've never understood this claimed distinction between playing covers and playing originals. I just like music. [/quote] If you play in an originals band and are told exactly what bassline to play then I'd agree, because there would be no thinking involved in either case. But to my mind, the difference is usually that you get to invent the bassline, it's YOUR creation, not someone else's. It's the difference between reading a book or writing a book. It's creative rather than just reproduction.

I'm not anti taking money for things, just that it's not constantly on my mind. I'm unlikely to do stuff I don't like unless I'm paid for it, but I'm equally happy to do stuff I enjoy without thought of making money from it. Isn't that the point of enjoying something? For it's own sake? From my perspective, it seems like there are a lot of miserable people out there who are only willing to play music if there's a few bob in it for them. Nothing wrong with that per se, their choice etc etc, but there are other approaches to life as well. That's all.

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1397457404' post='2423972'] You dislike the "big guy" mentality. But sod it because it doesn't affect you. Selfish, but honest. Irony? [/quote] How can it be selfish to ignore something and refuse to let it bother me? My action in this respect doesn't affect you, or anyone else, so how can it be selfish? You should aim your ire at BC as it's THEIR policy that's affecting you, not mine. Frankly, I'd suggest that any selfishness being displayed here is on the part of those people who keep pestering BC to go head to head with JH despite it being quite clear that they don't wish to take the risk. Isn't it rather selfish not to respect that clear stance?

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1397428240' post='2423910'] Where have I mentioned an interest in Rick copies? I would quite happily put them all in a crusher! I have no burning interest in genuine Rick's, albeit I do own one. I am vaguely interested in the one that is still for sale here. I might shell out for a CS one day or a nice walnut if one came along that took my fancy, but other than that, mark me as happy with my lot (for now). What I do have an issue with is the "big guy" mentality that has resulted in this situation. It's not in my nature to take it lying down. I'm not wired like that. I generally do keep at it until something gives. You have misinterpreted my persistence in this matter as some sort of belligerence. That couldn't be further from the truth. I fully support the moderators position, but refuse to accept the problem as unsolvable to the benefit of Rickenbacker fans. There is a difference. [/quote] Apologies for my misunderstanding. I also dislike the 'big guy' mentality about this whole thing and my immediate instinct is also to kick back about such things, but pragmatism takes over eventually and my feeling is that the whole thing is more trouble than it's worth. I couldn't care less if Rickenbackers (genuine and fakes) disappeared from the face of the earth tomorrow so it's just not something to get worked up about. If everyone felt that way then JH would have nothing to cause trouble about. Instead he's probably having a lot of fun putting the wind up people who do give a sh1t. Well, not me matey, you can keep your Ricks - fake or not.

Excellent! Good vibes, fun and enjoyment - isn't that what making music should be all about?!

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1397425634' post='2423881'] I know it's easy for me to say as I'm not a moderator, but within what you have described could for sale ads could exist devoid of any images at all. If so, would this work....allows members to generate an image free for sale thread on the understanding that it cannot be published until pre-approved by a mod (maybe get that in the software so nothing slips through). If approved by a mod it then gets locked immediately negating pages of "discussion" or "adding" of images. Once sold the seller PM's a mod for the thread to be marked as such. Basically it would just be like an ad in a music mag back in the day. [/quote] Yes, but why would the site owners, not to mention the mods, want to even bother with all that faffing about, never mind the risk of a mistake being made and finding themselves on the sharp end of legal threats, or worse still actual legal action? Tell you what, since you're so keen to have an online marketplace for trading Rick copies, why not set one up yourself instead of expecting someone else to bear all the risk? Sorry to sound harsh, but BC has made its position quite clear and it seems only fair to respect it.

The problem is that you might still be alive tomorrow. Still, since there's no talking sense to people who can't think more than a few hours ahead, why stop at a new bass? Though if a bass is the pinnacle of such risky ambition then there's probably no point in appealing to a greater imagination. Enjoy the bass - it could be the most expensive thing you ever buy.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1397376237' post='2423228'] Sorry to keep banging on about this, but could someone answer a simple question for me please? If I wanted to sell a genuine Rickenbacker product on Basschat (if there wasn't a ban) and there was absolutely no question as to it's authenticity, would there be any legal ramifications? [/quote] Depends what you mean by 'ramifications'? Even being totally innocent doesn't mean you can't suffer at the hands of litigation. Imagine being forced to prove your innocence, with all the attendant time, cost, worry and stress involved? And for what, advertising a bass for sale? Why would you even consider taking such a risk? Here's an example of an innocent person experiencing some 'legal ramifications' of not doing anything wrong: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27007764 This is not really a legal issue, it's a policy issue by the BC owners and as such should be respected. Agree or disagree with it by all means but please respect their absolute right to decide.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1397336566' post='2423038'] I don't understand the problem to be honest - Basschat have done what they seem fit to protect themselves, and Rickenbacker owners still have ebay/preloved/gumtree/facebook/TB etc to sell stuff if they want too. Even folk with Rickenfakers can find places to sell fairly easily [/quote] I don't understand the problem either. It's easy for people with zero risk to suggest that others take a risk. The reality is that we pay nothing for all the services that BC offers and are therefore effectively guests here. As such, abiding by the house rules is the least we can do - anything else is just plain bad manners. Their website, their rules.

Interesting thread. I guess it all boils down to whether you're putting on a planned show and going for some sort of branding or whether you're just playing songs. I'd quite like to put a bit more effort into the 'show' side of things, but in practice we just play songs. Black trousers and black Tee is about as radical as we get on the 'showtime' front. At least our songs are mostly originals.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1397118629' post='2420743'] Best way to learn where the notes are is to learn to read music. Then you HAVE to know where the notes are to actually PLAY the f*****s [/quote] Though wouldn't it be possible then to be able to play the notes but not actually know what they were? I can't read music (well not fast enough to play from it without first learning it, if you see what I mean), but I know the notes on my fretboard.

Yeah, that was my first thought. I think much the same sort of thing when I watch Pino play. Is it possible for ANY hand to learn to stretch in that sort of way or is it the case that some people just have an innate physical advantage when it comes to such things?

I'm surprised 'brand' isn't on the list. When I started seriously playing bass I got myself a Fender P bass. Not because I knew that's what would be best for me but because I knew it was good enough for many of the best players in the world and therefore would likely not limit my own modest prowess. Plus, if I decided to give up it would likely command a decent second-hand price. When I fancied a bit of a change, I bought a Fender Jazz, for much the same reasons. When I wanted a 4x4, I bought a Land Rover When I wanted an SLR/DSLR camera, I bought a Canon (though it was a close run thing with Nikon) When I wanted fly rod, I bought Hardy When I wanted a watch, I bought a Rolex Etc etc. None of these brands are perfect, all have strong competitors, some of which may be better in some respects, but all of them are quality products with well deserved reputations. As such, they are unlikely to be a poor choice and will likely perform beyond the capability of the buyer, plus they will probably command a good price on the secondhand market, should it come to that. Safe choices I guess.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1397067592' post='2420366'] You are right that there is an element of having paid dues. You can see that I think that there is a problem that some people here think that it doesn’t matter if they know what a simple scale is, yet are prepared to subject innocent punters performing at what can only be described as a gig! This does nothing to encourage said punters to regularly support local gigs in pubs. [/quote] Are you seriously equating knowledge of music theory to playing competence? Well I guess that would make it easy for venues to find 'quality' bands - just insist on seeing their grade certificates before booking them, along with their PAT certificates, liability insurance certificates, passports . . . .

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1397039182' post='2419935'] But, I have one question. Many pub and club gigs seem to be based on the expectation that a band will have a following that will bring paying customers. How does a band build a following if they don't play live? And how will they play live for pay if they don't have a following? [/quote] That an interesting point, to which I'd also ask how many hobby/semi-pro bands can command a significant following that are prepared to pay to see the same band time every week? If the band has a national following and the band travels to gigs all over the country then perhaps their regional followers will pay to see them every couple of months or so, but the more local the band, the more local their following and if the band is playing every week (or more) then will that following really pay to see the same band every week. I can't think of any band that I'd want to see every week. Maybe for a few weeks, but not much more.

Isn't the EU a similarly sized market as the USA? Bulk shipping to the USA is an [u]additional[/u] cost and it will still be required to do the low volume shipping (distribution out to customers) inside the USA, just as in the EU.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1396975816' post='2419372'] £120 for a ticket. Arrive at 5am. Don't get out until late. If I did an entire day roaming magic (which I do sometimes) I'd be wanting £800 at the very least for a 12 hour shift. [/quote] But if you're an F1 fan then you'll be happy to pay the £120, arrive at 5am and get out late. Silverstone are offering the opportunity to watch the race for free (fans won't want entertaining during the actual racing) in return for a bit of entertaining. That's all - take it or leave it. Seems to me that too many people are too keen to tell other people what they should or shouldn't be doing.

It looks like the deal is free tickets . . . . . so probably a better deal than £50 each for playing the Dog & Duck - if you're an F1 fan.

Could be worse (or better) if you were after a Range Rover. £71,320 in the UK http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/lr/ $84,225 in the USA (about £53,000) http://www.landrover.com/us/en/lr/ Rip-off Britain eh?

Perhaps we're overlooking the fact that the rewards of playing live can be more than money. Clearly, for some bands the only acceptable reward IS money (which is fine) but for others it is clearly not an important consideration. So, assuming no one is being forced to play gigs against their will, it seems reasonable that the opportunity to play live with other musicians in front of an audience is reward enough for some bands. Horses for courses.