SamIAm

Nods @tauzero. Doing a rough analysis,on the GSRM25 the B string saddle position to end of body is a touch less than the width of the 22nd fret, which Ibanez say is 67mm. All of the headless tuners I can find are longer than this (From the Guyker diagram I'd say they are about 67mm + the size of the tuner serrated head bit). I really really do not want them to extend beyond the body, I'd hope to put in a recess like this example S'manth x

@AndyTravis, indeed the GSRM25 is in the space of what I want. I’ve failed to locate one used and have one on backorder from Thomann, but it’s a 9-12 week wait. The 25 does not appear suitable for a headless conversion tho as the bridge saddle points seem too close to the end of the body to accommodate headless tuners; I really want to go headless, I like the look and balance but the better tuning stability is attractive but key is that with a bit of work (crimping and superglue) at the nut end, I can cut down any length of string to fit … 28.6 inch strings are not at all common. S’manth x

I’ve seen a couple of “how to replace a broken truss rod” videos online (hardly a. Through education tho). I listed what I think are the steps in my OP, I think the mod will be less work overall, especially with shaping and finishing.

Me too currently it has side markers at the exact fingering positions (and I popped on some pencil marks for the intervening positions) ... I would go for that approach again. S'manth x

One might say your fingertips would be destroyed? That would be bad

In a Dougal like moment my mind wandered off to imagine bass playing cows ...

If I go ahead with this I suspect my first attempt will be on a fretless neck ... but I believe it should work on fretted necks also. S'manth x

Intuitively it struck me that the fret spacing would be OK as it is basically the same as playing with a capo. However, to achieve a more informed position, I went onto one of those fret position web calculator sites, produced a layout for 34 inch and for 28.6 inch (Which is where fret 3 lies on a 34 inch ... OK so it's 28.59) Comparing a few points in a spreadsheet it seems that they are near as dammit the same spacings so I think the maths adds up. On a shortened neck, I would use the original 3rd fret as a new 0 fret. S'manth x

Sorta, actually replacing a truss rod that is in perfect working order with a shorter one to allow the removal of the headstock and portion of the neck to turn a long scale neck into a short scale headless neck - a sanity check. (But that was a bit wordy for the title!) Why would I want to do this I can hear you shout ... To end up with the headless 5 string short scale neck I desire, I seem to have a number of options: Buy one off the shelf (I'm struggling to find one suitable) Get one made for me (expensive) Self build (A huge amount of work) Mod one (Not quire as much work) It occurs to me that with option 4 (Modding one) the work required is less than for a self build. Modding (As I understand it) a neck requires the removal of the existing fingerboard (using the application of heat and very very gently prying apart), cleanup of the surfaces of the neck and fretboard, removal of the existing truss rod (Non-trivial but it appears doable from what I seen on youtube), cleaning of the existing truss rod channel and possible enlargement or reduction to suit the new truss rod, cutting the neck and fingerboard to the new scale length taking into account the headless string mounting unit, gluing the fingerboard back on and then the tidy up and hardware attachment. If done carefully I would hope to avoid having to do any significant refinishing of wither the neck or fingerboard. Compared to a self build I would not have to shape the neck, heel or fingerboard, fret the fingerboard, route a completely new truss rod channel and hopefully I can avoid most of the finishing of the neck/fingerboard; it would come with the additional work of removal of the fingerboard and trussrod, cleaning away the old glue and the shortening of the neck. Overall it seems to me that the total effort would be considerably less (Assuming I don't screw things up!) Lopping off the top 3 frets of a neck would result in a slightly wider nut, but that is likely to suit my purposes. As this is something I have never tried before I wanted to fly the idea up the BC flagpole and see if anyone had any cautionary tales/warnings or advice that I've not considered? S'manth x

Oh my ... the lengths required to achieve the length desired I've been chasing my tail recently to try to get a short scale 5 string ... something someone posted the other day got me thinking and I've done some playing and I am now strumming on a prototype 28 inch scale length 5 string fretless. How? I took A Harley Benton 5 string fretless (A gorgeous instrument donated to me to help recover from my post fire lack of groove) with flatwounds on it. A capo and a small length of wire (the wire is playing the role of a zero fret) Some masking tape, a ruler and a sharpie. And did this ... The fingerboard is unlined and the sidedots are now hidden by the masking tape markers so it is not confusing to locate positions. It is tuned BEADG and the low B (0.135) sounds pretty good, tho it does grumble a bit if I pluck it hard ... I think I need a slightly thicker wire and some adjustment to the saddle height ... but all in all it is pretty good and a very comfortable finger stretch for me. I'm now trying to figure out how to get a headless neck setup in this configuration. S'manth x

What I am taking away ... 1) Only route a shallow layer at a time. (This was already my experience with Xena, my baby CNC, but it is good to know the same applies with the bigger ones too) 2) Use a template. I had no idea of how to best make a template and so was shying away from them ... however what you folks have said got me to thinking about it again. and then I had an idea! Xena physically survived the fire and I am in the process (as with a few other things) of cleaning her up and seeing if she still works (I need to do the same with Pru, my 3D printer ... tho with her I can see that the plastic parts are melted/deformed ... they can be reprinted but it is a fair amount of work so I've been putting it off) ... if Xena still runs, I can use her to cut out the templates and then use those for the routing on the bass. I guess it falls into the classic pattern of doing a lot of prep work to make the job go smoothly. 3) Clear as much waste/rough material as possible with a drill & forstner bit. Thanks folks! S'manth x

Well that plan goes out the window then! S'manth x

Further browsing around uncovered some more amazing resources for self build. One youtube channel had a number of gems in it! Its name "Guns and guitars" nearly put me off (A major driver in my never returning to my land of birth is the US attitude to guns) but ... I watched a video where this guy starts off with saying "Your circumstances do not define what you are capable of" and then goes on to describe the tools he used to build a bass out of "junk" wood whilst living in a motorhome!!! Some of his gems: How to make a notched fret straightedge out of an aluminium ruler using a file to gut the notches, how to make a fret leveler using a spirit level, double sided sticky tape and sandpaper and how to craft fret protectors from a soda can. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnzms8dZdVM). But in his "all the tools you need" video,he shows his most amazing work bench It looks amazing and I really need a work space ... but likely only available in the US I thought NOT SO!!! The toolstation about 3 miles from me actually had them in stock, so now in my living room I have a place to work (Meh ... I live alone and have a suitable hoover to clean up the sawdust lol) the ruler is for scale. It is crazy small, insanely quick to setup, quite steady (with 4 legs a wee bit of paper to totally level it is necessary) and bonkers strong (working load of 450kg!) and gives me somewhere to do my mad dr frankenstein bass guitar work! S'manth x

@Norrisrouting is likely to be freehand (or following an edge for truss) as I am making a one off custom shape. S'manth x

Would that be in the morning? Does it smell of victory? S'manth x

Welcome to BC TC! S'manth x

Ahhhhhh ... S'manth x

@Linus27great to hear from you ... Loved that video! S'manth x

What a lovely job! S’manth x

I KNOW there are other U-BASS players here on BC, it would be great to hear your ukulele bass stories and some of your favorite examples Here is mine ... My first foray into the world of bass was with a U-BASS (Ukulele Bass). I was playing tenor uke in a uke band and I fancied a change ... so in 2017 I went down to GAK and walked away with my very first ever bass ... A Kala Exotic Mahogany U•BASS. It was great fun and I made my first stumbling (very) steps getting to grips with playing bass. It is a four string fretted electro-acoustic bass. Acoustically it is just loud enough to practice with solo but when playing with other instruments it really needs some umph, hence the correspondingly wee bass amp (Roland Micro Cube RX), battery powered and with enough output to allow me to be heard when playing in the band (6 acoustic ukes/vocals). Great fun and so easy to lug around. Its (and our) most ... prestigious ... gig was when we played the main stage of the Brighton Dome. We were rather chuffed when we were told we had the same dressing room as ABBA had used when they won the Eurovision back in 1974! UAS is a similar disorder to GAS and in 2019 I managed to get a solid body U-BASS. A Kala SUB. A different tone, a bit heavier but still a feather compared to a bass guitar and with a bit more "tweakability" as it came with saddle height adjustment as well as a truss rod (The electro-acoustic just has a truss rod) It was a couple of years later (Post covid) when I decided to try an electric bass to overcome some tuning and intonation challenges I was finding with the U-BASS (I've since discovered that an improvement in my playing technique has helped a lot with these). I trialed an Ibanez Mikro (Pictured below in the row of Tenor Uke, Kala SUB, Ibanez, Kala electro-acoustic) but I sent it back as it was just too large to play in the band. Sadly in August 2022 a fire took almost all of my musical gear, the electro-acoustic survived (As I had loaned it to a band mate) so I still have it today. The thing is that I have since fallen in love with 5 strings so it was with great delight that I was offered this beauty (An early model Kala California solid body 5 string fretless) a few weeks ago (Out of the blue someone said they knew of my love of ultra short scale and they were not getting on with this one and would I like it!) I could not believe my great fortune! I popped some Aquila Thunderbrowns on it (OMG!) and it has become my goto ukulele bass and will fit in brilliantly with the band when we start up again next year. For those of you who are unfamiliar with ukulele bass instruments, they are ultra short scale (My electro-acoustic is 21 inch scale and the solid body is 23 inch) and they use specially formulated strings (Polyurethane are the most common tho you can get wire wound with nylon core) to allow them to be tuned the same way as a bass guitar. Pickup wise they tend to use a piezo pickup under the bridge saddle. Why do I love the U-BASS? They are unbelievably portable being so small and light! The ultra short scale makes it very easy to move around the fretboard. And for me, I play in a ukulele band ... it is wonderful to see people's faces when they hear the big bass sounds coming from such a wee beast! Sound wise ... they do not sound quite like an electric bass, nor do they sound quite like an EUB ... they have been described as being somewhere in-between. With my lack of a decent mic or DI (and lacking bass skills) I am not posting any sound sample of my own, but here are some from the web. S'manth x

So my new tools arrived. And from exploring the info & links shared, I stumbled across https://theelectricluthier.com/ which appears a great resource. One of his videos describes how to route the truss rod & graphite rod channels using a hand trimmer near identical to the one I've got! I've also discovered that my electric drill and palm sander are in the items salvaged from my flat and appear to be operational (Tho I'll need to get a new battery/charger) ... I guess that all I need now is a saw (or two) and a design and I can start shaping. S'manth x

Oh bu99er it! I've just ordered a GSRM25 from Thomann ... it is the best price and I have had great experience with them. If I can find one online earlier than their quoted 9-12 weeks (or locate a used one) then I can cancel ... otherwise I've got one queued up ... I'll just have to be patient! And in the meantime, I've popped a capo on the third fret of my Hohner B2V (which gives me a scale length about the the same as the Ibby) so I'm not totally having to chomp on the bit! lol S'manth x

Nods about DV247 ... tho a couple of weeks ago they were saying stock expected on 28th Dec ... so I'm a little dubious! Musiker actually had a couple in pre xmas ... but the £30 shipping put me off (as well as concern about getting hit with import charges). The other option I've just discovered is the ESP LTD B 5JR 5, which is a similar size but a P Bass 🤔 tho it also seems availability is an issue. S'manth x