oldslapper

Indeed you are Bilbo. This is a great topic. I wonder if it is a Jazz thing? I play in 3 different "outfits" and the attitude of the band members differs greatly. 8 piece function band.....Me, singer and the drummer learn our parts, rehearse them. The rest are lazy and the 3 of us get frustrated with the rest, but we gig regularly because we "entertain" and get booked by guests at whatever wedding/party we play at. It's a mystery to me why, coz I think we're sloppy and sh*@. But I am a tart and take the money and run. 3 piece originals post punk/pop/rock band. We have to be tight as there's no hiding place, but that's generally because the drummer and I drive the singer/writer to work on song arrangements. I love this band as I get to write/arrange/record/perform my own material. 4 piece Jazz jazz group. These guys are in there 60's and really care about every nuance of every chord/phrase and have played with some great jazz artists. I "brick it" more often when we gig, as I'm out of my comfort zone. But I've learned more from the this lot and the other 2 bands put together. They have also been very gracious to me and helped me improve and have not thrown me out when I've got it wrong as they know this 49 year old "kid" still believes he is learning his trade. There is a big difference between rehearsing material until it is part of you, and gigging it until it's part of you. When you face that audience for the first time, some fall apart, despite sounding great in the practice room. At what point do you say I am ready I wonder? Who judges? Where's the yard stick? "Where's the b@@*+y off button on your computer, please press it" you are no doubt asking...I shall exit stage left .....thanks Mr B for a thought provoking thread. John

Payment faster than the speed of smell.........pleasure to do business with you sir! John

[quote name='Bilbo' post='922720' date='Aug 12 2010, 01:44 PM']So why is it a crime to say, quietly and away from the public's gaze, 'John. We love you but you're not cutting it, mate. Go see this teacher. Go improve your time. Go work on your chops. Come back when you are ready'.[/quote] Love you to Bilbo, and I will try and do better. John

[quote name='Bilbo' post='921506' date='Aug 11 2010, 12:34 PM']...Doddy paid his dues the way real musician do. His story is similar to mine and most musicians who are cutting it. Earn your wings before you fly in public. Amateurs belong in jam sessions and workshop bands not on proper gigs. If you are any good, the tutors spot you, word gets out and the phone starts to ring but you need to be ready to deliver at least at a competent level. Screwing up in public is not good for anyone......[/quote] Mmmm? Not sure about the amateurs comment, I know a lot of very competent amateurs....but I guess you mean poor players??" And I wish it was as simple as "your tutor spots you, you get recommended and the phone starts ringing...." I have a weird belief that screwing up in public can be good for you, as long as you learn from it and you are given the chance to redeem yourself. I like to see a student make a cock up in public, and see how they handle it, how they react, how it affects their attitude to practice/performance. It also can keep the humility levels at a reasonable level. I wouldn't expect them to be vilified, or chucked out. But all this "room" to fall over, dust yourself down, get up and improve only happens in the context of working with experienced/more competent players who have done the same and improved as a result. Really surprised at PM's about the thread tho'...I thought the forum was to post what you thought....then run off and sulk when you don't like the answer...it's what i do anyway ?? Anyway, love your passion Bilbo for what it's worth, and I reckon that I agree with the sentiment....just don't quite hit the same bar on a couple of the finer points. John

You're right to maintain integrity Bilbo, it's important. The "jam" night scene is pretty healthy round here, so the good, the bad and the ugly get to play together quite a lot.........i fall into the last 2 categories by the way. Just hope you can still get alongside some "potential" and give some guidance, as you seem like someone who would be a good role model. Unlike the musical tart that is I...!

I think it's a shame Bilbo. Bad musicians only improve by playing with better musicians.....(it's only an opinion folks so no shouting please)....so you may be denying someone the opportunity to improve by playing alongside someone as good as you.

Yup, just joined, 50 next year, so thought I qualified! Looks good.

Andy bought a bass from me. Great communications, and stress free transaction. Thanks. John

[quote name='Big_Stu' post='902697' date='Jul 23 2010, 01:35 AM']Never in my life have I seen so many patronising tw@ts all in one thread.[/quote] ???!!! memo to self....."dear O.S. don't post on discussions about individual players, you patronising tw@t, it always ends up with handbags at dawn"

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='902365' date='Jul 22 2010, 09:16 PM']On the early Beatles songs - which were my era - I can't hear anything special at all. I've often heard people mention him, but can't hear anything different from the other 60s bands. Please enlighten me to something that he did that was special.[/quote] I guess it's subjective really, as his later beatles and early wings stuff is my favourite. However, when I listen to "Josie" on Aja I think that's the line Macca would have played (wonder if Becker/Rainey were influenced by him?). Again, just a thought. I don't "get" some of the players lauded here I must admit, I guess some players can "reach" you and others don't?...I sound like a bl***y hippie now! ............................I'm off to eat some meat, kick the cat and fart loudly.....

Very thoughtful player, probably because he's a songwriter too, his bass lines are about the song. One J.S. Bach had the same approach to writing bass parts, and he wrote a good tune or two. Just my opinion. Dee Murray was very "Macca", not sure he was a songwriter, but had same approach to melody & rhythm.