Phil Starr

I've had exactly the same thing but probably worse, we've played the first number and finished to no applause and puzzled looks from the audience and then "we can't hear the singer" The sound for the band has been magnificent, loud and crystal clear in ou IEM's but I've forgotten to un-mute the FOH! The only thing the audience have heard is the guitar which is miked up before feeding to the PA. One of the things I love about British audiences is that ironic cheer when sombody c*cks up I've earned that twice so far! That's the hazard of decent IEM's, you forget they are there.

Confusing isn't it? The simple answer is that most amps nowadays are using pretty much one of two or three power amp circuits and just about every manufacturer offers a class D amp which gives 300W into 8ohms and 500W into 4ohms. They don't all sound the same but all of them will be loud enough into almost any but the smallest speakers and most speakers will be able to handle that power. The straighforward answer is that you can choose from any one of those amps and you wont break the 4x10's you are using in the rehearsal room. When you get to gigging any one of them will do the job with 90% of the speakers on sale. If you are using a Peavey 4x10 you don't need to use a Peavey amp, any brand will do. I like and own a Peavey Minimax whch has a good range of sounds but the best thing you can do is try a few of these amps out and see if you like them. We all have different tastes. If you want a simple version of the technical stuff then try this. Some speakers are much louder than others with the same amp. This is measured in how many decibels of sound you can make with one watt. Most bass speakers will vary between 90db/ W (not very loud/efficient) to 103db/W (loud) Each extra watt can only add to that sound level, ten times the power adds 10db and doubling the power adds 3db, so a 100W amp with add 20db to whatever the one watt figure is and 200W will add 23db. To work out how loud a system will be you need to know the power of the amp and the efficiency of the speaker. Either on its own won't tell you anything, you need both numbers.

That's brilliant, I hope it works out for you. The perceived wisdom is to always have spare channels but sometimes a tool is just right for the job. Behringer are a funny old company. They still make a lot of stuff they've been producing for years and I think the Flow is made to replace their analogue desks but it does knock up against the X12 price wise. The X Air 12 does offer a whole world of extra capabilities but has the same learning curve as the x18 mixers and the same lack of physical controls. Not everyone will want to develop the technical expertise to run the X-series of mixers and I suspect that there would be a real market for replacing all their small analogue mixers with a Flow version. I think there is a lot of merit in simplicity and it is one of the joys of playing with a duo or trio to go in with a simple set up and just get on with playing.

Ha ha, caught me out there Funnily it did occur to me that you might have done this on an analogue desk, but I ploughed on anyway. It sounds like it was a bigger desk than I ever took to a gig. Most of the analogue desks I've used have been limited to four busses. 18 in and 18 out with flexible routing is almost standard now for jobbing pub bands if they go digital. That's another game changer.

Practice may not make us all perfect Tim but just about everyone improves with the opportunity to learn. When I used to teach photography My students got bogged down in technicalities. Even with decent cameras getting them to concentrate on on composition was a struggle. A roll of film was expensive to use and it was rare for anyone without a professional interest to use multipe rolls every week. Even then you had to take the film in to be developed and printed. Few people got to experiment in the darkroom and even then it was time consuming. Phones allow us all to take hundreds of shots a day all properly exposed and focussed with images stabilised. Crucially the feedback is instant as to what is a good shot and what doesn't work. That the photos the kids are taking are better than 90% of the black and white pictures my generation took is more of an observation than anything. You of course may disagree. I think your assumption is that there are more cloth eared guitarists than serious musicians who have craved access to all the features now available to them? My experience is that most are serious about getting the band to get better, have a good idea about the sound they are trying to achieve and liberated by having the tools to do a better job. Not all musicians are cloth eared even guitarists

Hi Leo, a 4x10 is likely to be pretty efficient (loud) depending upon which model it is. Back in the day they packed lots of cheap but efficient speakers into big cabs to make lower powered amps loud enough to be heard over anything. You could almost certainly use a 100W amp and get away with it so the likes of the TE Elf, Warwick Gnome or tc BAM would probably be enough for rehearsal and are also cheap and fit in a pocket (OK a big pocket but they are tiny and fit in a bass case.) If not then go for one of the 300/500W amps, you really don't need the Minimega a Peavey MiniMax would do but just about every brand does an amp of this size. If you want something cheap then the Bugera Veyron works well.

It's one of the joys of a digital mixer that you can set this sort of thing up at home then store it and try it out at rehearsals and gigs without having to risk losing your tried and tested set up. Just as phones have trained us all to be better photographers I think digital desks are going to train us to try things and become better sound engineers as a result. Imagine setting this up on an analogue desk and having to physically recall settings with bits of tapes stuck to the input strips

Your only problem is that at least one of your instruments will need a line level output, you won'e be able to just plug it in or mic it. Apart from the lack of gain on inputs 5/6 and 7/8 they are also not really high impedance at 10kohms unlike the Mohms of the combi inputs for guitar. This won't really be an issue if one of your guitars uses fx as many processors will give you a fair bit of gain and don't need impedance matching. If your db uses a pre amp that will probably work too but you'd need to check. It'd be a bit annoying if you saved money and space buying the Flow8 only to have to buy another piece of kit to get your third instrument connected. Have you seen the offer at Andertons

There was a time when Mackie 450's were the go to PA tops. People still talk lovingly about the 'made in Italy ones. I think the newer ones are still decent speakers but for some reason Mackie became unfashionable. New I think you can do better for the money but a pair of used Mackie's are still a good choice. Even the Mackie Thumps which used to not sound so good have been considerably improved in the latest models. I've never understood how there can be 'fashion' in PA or even bass speakers, but then my wife will tell you I have no sense of fashion in anything

I'll hazard a guess that the "resonant boominess" that you get is a room resonance. That's unless you are getting it at the same time in the same song at every gig. Obviously that resonance is being set up by something and that can be by the guitar and bass producing the same frequencies. You do hear it in recordings sometimes so it can be a deliberate effect.. I see HPF as being something on the mixer which cuts hard at 24db/octave a real shutting down of power compared with a tone setting which will normally be around 3-6db/octave. Most tone controls will work at a max of 12-15db/octave but you don't usually turn them up to full boost or cut. 150Hz is too high to cut off the guitar that sharply. You can't really use the same calculations for guitar or vocals as you do for bass or kick. Our ears are nearly completely insensitive to quiet sounds at 50Hz so you don't miss them. You can clearly hear 150hz where our ears are much more sensitive and the guitar or vocal will lose all the 'body' from the sound. I HPF guitars at 80Hz, maybe a touch higher if I have an acoustic guitar giving me bass feedback issues. What you can do is try to locate the frequencies that are giving you concern and try to filter them using a parametric eq. Find the centre of the troublesome frequency, cut that a few db and then try widening or narrowing the width of the filter to make the cut as unobtrusive as possible. If it is only happening in some venues then you would probably be better doing this on the output stages. Also be aware that the boominess might just be on-stage if you aren't all using in-ears. The sound might be good out front. Check if you can as you don't want to be cutting the bass if the mix is just right FOH.

It's one of the advantages of a digital mixer isn't it? You can save settings however complex and then refine them over time as you get the chance to listen to the band. It's been an intersting question for me to answer because I've kind of had to re-imagine what I did four years ago when I first got the mixer. I have to admit I probably never set up in as logical way as I pretend online, it's probably more suck it and see Most of the settings on the vocal tracks aren't really eq which I tend to leave more or less flat. I use fairly heavy HPF on all the mics except for the Kick drum (not used much as I've only worked with eDrums for the past few years) I roll off the highest frequencies above 10-15kHz depending upon the mic mainly to reduce the chance of feedback. Then most of what I do is set a noise gate, reverb and delay. I don't use compression for live work, limiting sometimes for more erratic vocalists. I think I eq more for the vocal mics rather than the singer but thats about it in advance. We mainly use Sennheiser E935's with my female vocalists who have all 'borrowed" mine and then bought their own. I have one singer who uses a Shure Beta58 and that's been the one I've eq'd. It's hard to remember as these have all been tweaks carried out over a couple of years of gigging.

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Great advice ^^ When I was mixing FOH back in the dark ages I pretty much always used headphones on the vocals, and any other channels that I was having problems with. It gives you the best starting point and helps you 'understand' the voices. With the XR18 you have the possibility of recording whole gigs giving you access to both the isolated vocals and the rest of the band. I've never found a vocalist who can really give their gig voice on demand so this is a way of collecting the vocals as they are in a real life situation and you can play them back over and over. Remember that just like any instrument the equalisation that sounds good isolated is often not great when mixed in with the band at a gig.. The bass isn't the only instrument that sounds best isolated when it has a mid scoop, the opposite of what you need at a gig.

She seems to be doing her research but ask/suggest that her next step is to go for a digital mixer. My preferenmce is for a stagebox mixer like the behringer XR18 or the Allen and Heath CQ20 Unless you have a sound engineer it's easier to mix with an Ipad or other tablet so a stage-box works well. The Behringer has software that is a bit glitchy and moderately complex but is uber-flexible, the Allen and Heath is still flexible but has more intuitive software. Both are well loved by users and open up the possibility of multi-track recording at gigs or in the recording studio. Digital mixers will give you far more control over your sound with lots of studio quality sound shaping and fx, once you are used to them they are easier to control than the anologue equivalents, take up less space and best of all you can save and recall your best settings at will. Lots of discussion here For you however the big plus would be that a digital mixer offers up to six separate monitor mixes for your in-ears so you won't have to share a mix and all of you will be able to adjust the mix individually. PS if you want the simplest of mixers I noticed Thomann have a b-stock one of these RCF M18 which is what I use. RCF have discontinued them but they have the advantage that they are designed for semi-pro live bands. The control software is superb and really intuitive so there is next to no learning curve M18

+1^^^ I think this is important, there is more than one way of doing things. Your Yamahas and RCF912's are great speakers compared with any gear we used 20 years ago. Used by someone with years of experience, who has a good ear and cares about the sound they can sound wonderful. That's about the whole chain as well. Good mics, good technique when mic'ing up equipment, a great mix and good discipline from well rehearsed musicians are all just as important as decent speakers and I'd rather listen to a band that has a decent sound engineer and OK speakers than one which has all the kit and no idea. I do get a bit tired about all the internet advice which is so categorical, "you need 18" subs if you have 15" tops" type of thing. That takes no account of the size of the venue, the type of music played or the particular presentation of the song the band are attempting to create, or the skill of the musicians come to that. The answer to most questions is spending a lot of money will improve your sound. Subs properly used will tighten up your bass sound of course, but would it be better to spend £800 on a new mixer than subs? £200 on a new vocal mic or £20 on a new set of bass strings? How can anyone answer that over the internet. My advice is to keep it simple, you have nice speakers and your band will sound great if you can squeeze the best out of them. They'll happily deal with everything from 50-15,000Hz and probably more so don't worry about the 40-50Hz bit until it becomes obvious something is missing and you've tried all you cn to put it right with the kit you've got. Btw you haven't mentioned your mixer, what are you using? Going in-ears is probably the best thing you can do to improve your sound. A good mixer helps that a lot. I'm curious.