Phil Starr

I feel the Brigs pain. I split with a band just over a year ago over just this, well for me. They got fed up with my nagging, probably with good reason. The down side was that it was a regularly gigging band and a lot of fun. My conclusion is that it wasn't laziness per se, just acomplete lack of self awareness. At rehearsals they were always really enthusiastic but glossed over mistakes, didn't want to discuss anything in detail, like how many bars there were in a line. what the actual chord was or on some occasions what the time signature was, tricky with the drums I thought. At the end of rehearsal and in the two days after they would get hyper enthusiastic and come up with four new songs for next week. Dozens of suggestions would be thrown out in the next couple of days. Somehow they would never find the time to learn the new songs. If you were lucky each would have had time to learn one but wih no communication they would turn up having learned different songs. We'd end up playing the originals in the rehearsal room or just running through our set yet again. The enthusiasm reigned supreme, 'sixty new songs by the end of the year' but we got to August and had only gigged one new song not on our NYE set list. I could go on but all the things in everything thebrig has talked about happened to us. In the end the guitarist who did learn his stuff at home and I tried to put some order in it but they could not change and in the end I was the villain of the piece and was pushed out after a big row. My point, if there is one is you have to balance being in a band with good people against the possibility you won't find better. They won't change because their world view and self image is different from yours. You have to decide to chill and go with it or leave. Apparently I'm not a chilled person. So yes, they should learn their stuff at home and practice before rehearsing, but they never will. You just have to decide if you can live with that.

I've had the chance to play with this a couple of times, as did a few people at the South West Bash. Never played a fretless before so I'm not the best judge but it feels just right in your hands, the neck is a lovely thing and the photo's really don't do it justice.

Honestly it's not a thing to worry about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td6m_ukCu0A

If you are looking at the Mk 1 on here then I've deliberately designed it to need as few tools as possible. You only really need a screwdriver, an electric drill, something to cut out the speaker hole (jigsaw or router). A hand saw might be useful if you don't get everything cut to size exactly. The only specialist thing you need is a 70mm holesaw for the ports http://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-bi-metal-holesaw-70mm/80934?kpid=80934&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%2520Listing%2520Ads-_-Sales%2520Tracking-_-sales%2520tracking%2520url&gclid=CMHK3cWCn9MCFcYp0wodJnoJsg&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKeYoceCn9MCFaIx0wodNTwPDg which you can drive using your drill. We've only recommended the Beyma SM212 and the Eminence Beta12A2 for the design and the Kappalite 3012HO if you want a lightweight driver. Other drivers are suitable of course but we haven't tried them and haven't found anything cheaper so far. We're happy to advise anyone if they do come up with an alternative.

6V6 is right, you can't really 'service' an amp. Servicing is really about changing lubrication and filters and examining moving parts, none of which really applies to an amp. You could argue a valve change as a 'service' as they do wear over time and sometimes the bias on a valve amp will need to be tweaked but for a solid state amp save your money.

There are good technical reasons why valve amps are popular, it's to do with the way they distort when overloaded mainly. It's a much nicer sound than that of an overloaded solid state amp. In turn that is to do with the nature of the whole output stage including the transformer you have to have with a valve output stage. The effects of valves in the pre amp stages are much less pronounced but I wouldn't deny they are there, just not a way of emulating a valved output stage. Essentially you'd expect a solid state pre amp to be better behaved than a valve one, less distorted. I suspect though the essential differences in a valve pre amp are down to a mixture of luck and careful design, a good design is a good design IMO independently of whether it is solid state, digital or valve. FWIW my two amps both have valve and solid state pre amps. I've a Hartke 3500 and a MB Tube 500. I use the Hartke mainly on solid state and the MB with all valve and no solid state. I just set up the tone I like best. I honestly don't think just because you like one valve pre amp you are going to like every amp with one, you've still got to listen and choose with your ears.

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1491665561' post='3274663'] My car radio, car stereo speakers, all the car electrics are fitted in my car year round - why would bass amps/electrics/cabs be any different? [/quote] I know that the cones of car speakers are designed to be water resistant, I'd suspect the electronics are too. Many PA speakers nowadays are also water resistant to an extent but I've no idea which, if any, bass gear is. For example a lot of old Trace gear was made of MDF which will absorb moisture and swell. The trouble for all of us answering a question like this is that the real answer is 'it depends'. We none of us know what the garage/shed is really like or what gear is being stored. There's also the problem of knowing what level of risk is acceptable. Most of the gear in most garages will be OK, but how do we feel about a 25%chance of it being damaged? In the end the OP has to decide .

Congratulations Stevie, that's impressive. You have to try it with vocals

It has to depend upon the garage, the biggest enemies are moisture and rodents. Cold itself will cause no harm but temperature changes will cause condensation which is not good for anything that may corrode or for electronic circuit boards or many loudspeaker cones. You'd probably be better off running a de-humidifier than heating as such. I picked one up for £100 at Aldi of all places and you can set the humidity at which it cuts in and it all runs automatically, a lot cheaper than heating. You'd need to arrange a pipe to drain the extracted water or expect to empty the tank every few days. I've had mice inside my speaker cabs. Little buggers got out at a gig! I'd heard scratching as I unloaded them. Plug up any open reflex ports is the solution.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1491304138' post='3271927'] not entirely sure about this, Trace drivers are bloody heavy, as I said earlier I shaved 5Kg off a 1 x 15 T E cab by installing a non neo eminance driver I had around, reduced the weight from 25Kg to 20, did alter the sound though [/quote] You are probably right. Poplar ply is about 60% less dense than MDF and you could swap for thinner board with some decent bracing. I reckon you could save half the weight of the cab this way, possibly that is about 10kg? You'd certainly notice that when shifting the cab, I know when I'm at the gym 5kg is enough to move something from lift-able to feeling like it's nailed to the floor. As a complete cab it would still be pretty heavy of course. Whether it is worth all the effort I don't know. Four neo drivers wouldn't be cheap, I wonder how much it would cost to have a custom made cab?

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1491474273' post='3273282'] Mr Bill, he correct. Large cones simply cannot move swiftly or accurately enough to produce high frequencies. Without a tweeter, few if any 15" cabs are going to produce appreciable output over 1.5kHz. Even the smaller (typically around 6") bass drivers in your hi-fi need tweeters to cover anything much over 3kHz (try covering your hi fi tweeters and listening to your speakers and you'll see what I mean). [/quote] I'm fairly confident the OP didn't want this much detail but basically this is right, just not the whole story. Above certain frequencies the output from a speaker starts to fall at 6db/octave due to the mass elements. This is compensated for sometimes by a 6dB/octave rise in output due to the beaming Bill mentions, so both are important. This all assumes the cone acts as a perfect piston, it doesn't in real life of course. In reality all cones flex a little and some quite a lot. It may be that most of the output of a speaker at higher frequencies is actually being radiated from a relatively small central area of the cone. This may happen according to Colloms at around the frequency at which beaming starts. Above these frequencies you've pretty much got to measure each driver as the theory begins to break down.

There you go Firefox works, thanks guys

As Bill said it is down to the driver. the 38-2000Hz isn't a cut off either. It is probably just where the speaker's response is down 10dB. They've probably simply made a driver with better excursion and a heavier cone which has emphasised the bass but inevitably cut the top end as a consequence. I assume you chose it because of the sound so don't worry

The problem may just be down to inexperience and the monitoring issues already mentioned. A lot of people at jam/open mic sessions aren't regular performers and to be fair it isn't ideal doing just three songs with no chance to set up and sound check. It's often pretty difficult for an experienced musician to pick themselves out of the mix, for an irregular it can be tough. There's also the tendency to believe that if we can't hear the audience can't hear either. If there is a next time then point the speakers at his ears, he'll hear himself and be happy and your amp will be safe. He may even turn himself down

Don't do online banking. I prefer spending that hurts Thanks I was thinking of Firefox, I need to ditch Chrome.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1491380414' post='3272501'] The think is there is no right or wrong, it is a personal thing. Phil's idea of a smaller cab creating a low mid peak is as valid as the "HiFi" cab. The choice is yours. [/quote] There's no disagreement between us all about this, before the Mk1 I had the Beyma's in a couple of PA cabs with some really meaty horns crossed over at 1600Hz. They gave me the best sound I've ever had with a bass and that's what inspired me to try them with the horns disconnected, and ultimately led to the design of the Mk1. The reason for wanting to do a small cab is really only because I can't stop fiddling with designs to see where they can be pushed. If it is successful we'll have the basis for a lightweight version giving home builders another option, if it isn't successful then you'll know not to go there.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1491339089' post='3272314'] With a first order cap you'll be somewhere in the ballpark and it will sort of work. Once you add a coil to the circuit, the results could be disastrous unless you know what you're doing. I really wouldn't. In fact, using a crossover calculator is doomed to failure because they work on the assumption that you have a flat impedance curve on all your drivers, that they have a flat and extended frequency response and are time aligned. None of which is ever the case. [/quote] We'll have to disagree here I think. First of all we are talking about an instrument speaker. Michael might not get a flat frequency response, if that is what he is aiming for, but it could still sound quite good, and be better than his single driver. By going for a 2-way crossover you are trading some anomalies which you mention for the genuine problem that with no roll off of the bass you will have two drivers that will be radiating the same frequencies at different levels and from different points creating all sorts of comb filtering and other reinforcement and phase problems. Most of my experience in designing crossovers has been in hi fi cabs, where if anything sound is more critical. I've never really been a fan of complex crossovers, adding components in the form of notch filters and so on never exactly match the frequency anomalies of the drivers and introduce problems of their own. My own preference in listening tests has always been for 2nd order crossovers with the minimum of components, though I only ever use drivers that are more or less flat in the octave on the far side of the crossover point. If Michael chooses the drivers wisely a 2 way crossover might work well. So might a single capacitor high pass filter. Passive crossovers are never perfect but I wouldn't want to put Michael off from trying, just as long as he understands he won't know what his design will sound like until it is built.

[quote name='Gottastopbuyinggear' timestamp='1491309555' post='3272002'] Not the sound you want - now he tells us! I'm still relatively inexperienced with all this (from a user point of view) so I'm quite keen to do a bit of experimentation to see how a different speaker would sound in the real world. I need to revisit the modelling to check but I did look at putting a Beta 12 in the Mk1 cab (partly to free up a Beyma for a Mk 2 build, and partly just for curiosity) which I think predicted a similar bump of 2 or 3dB around 110 Hz or so. Of course the Beta 12 does have a pretty big hump in the high mids, so overall I guess the sound would be substantially different. [/quote] Sorry It's a long time ago now but the design was specced by people on here, who wanted a neutral/flat response and lots of lovely bass in a compact cab, it wouldn't have been my choice but it does mean you can eq in the response you want, as I have been doing. I've had some mild teasing because what I've ended up with is pretty much the response of a Beta 12 in a small box drawn permanently onto my graphic. I'm not a sophisticated bass player Stevie is taking the next logical step, adding the horn and driver and tweaking the crossover means the response is flat all the way up as far as a bass is concerned and you can pretty much dial in what you want, all with less distortion and more controlled dispersion of the sound

[quote name='The Shrek' timestamp='1491233409' post='3271426'] Thanks Stevie. Guys I hope I am not being forward in asking this question. I would gladly pay upfront for the service if there are any of you basschat guys who would be prepared to build a proper crossover for my project. Just advise me on what speakers to buy to match the appropriate crossover build. I am in Northern Ireland so I will gladly pay for any excessive post and packing and any other costs. Michael [/quote] Hi Michael, though it won't be fully optimised for your particular drivers you can always use a bog standard crossover circuit instead of just a capacitor to protect the 5" unit from the bass (and most of the power). The simplest would be a 1st order crossover to gradually remove the higher frequencies from the bass unit but a better way would be a 2nd order design Which has a quicker cut off for both speakers at the crossover point. You can get the basic calculations done here https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerCrossover/ Go for the Butterworth for 1st order or the Linkwitz-Riley for the 2nd order. It'll only work if your speakers are more or less the same sensitivity.

Yes if you really wanted a lighter Trace it might be better to mount the Trace Drivers in a lighter cab. MDF has great sonic properties (mass, youngs modulus, uniformity and self damping) but isn't great for a portable cab. It's heavy, goes soft and distorts if it gets wet, and isn't as tough as ply. With the same drivers in the same shaped cab it'd pretty much keep the original sound give or take a panel resonance.

Watts are only half the story (keeping the story simple) the other half is the efficiency of the the speakers. The sensitivity tell you how many dB's you'll get with one watt and then you can work out how many you'll get with one particular amp. Let's say you have a speaker that gives you 94dB for 1W, Doubling the power gives you an extra 3dB and ten times the power gives you 10dB extra. 100W will give you 114db through this speaker Now swap the speaker for something efficient, 100db for each watt, this will give you the same 20dB extra with a 100W amp or 120dB. To make the first speaker as loud you need two lots of 3db more power which means four times as much or 400W. Now 120dB happens to be about the sound level needed to work with an average drummer, and so long as your drummer is average that's the level to aim at, roughly. A bit more detail if you want https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/the_guide_to/making_it_loud.html

!4 kg is good, my originals came out at around that without the horn and crossover, though my bracing internally was a bit agricultural (rushed for the last bass bash) and I used Baltic birch rather than poplar. Yes I'm looking at doing a 40litre version, possibly even smaller as I might do some prototyping with a bit of spare ply. Basically I find I always end up dialling in a hump at 100Hz and rolling off below 40 anyway, the response you'd get in an over small cab. That's fine with my Harke amp with a graphic but is proving harder with my Mark Bass amp. I'm wondering why I'm carrying extra wood to not quite get the sound I want. I'm also getting more interested in the pschoacoustics side of things, what actually makes up perceived bassiness, punch and, dare I say it h**t. With Stevie currently chasing FRFR cabs I might look at voicing in cabs. If it goes to plan then I'm going to have a go at a lighter cab with better bracing first (Stevie did a much better job than I did of damping the panel resonances), I may even look at other drivers if I'm feeling flush.

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1491237851' post='3271469'] Now Im confused, those 300 watts are tube watts and a hell of a lot louder than any solid state amp Ive had (up to 1400 watt power amp. 800 watt SWR etc) but thats another thread! [/quote] It's simple enough Steve, you'll be pushing those valves into distortion and loving the sound. Your old solid state amps would sound really horrible pushed so hard so you turned them down to stop the distortion. You're pushing the valve amp harder is all, so the average power may be higher even if the peaks are not as big. I've heard your band remember

using a line source like the HK's can be good in a church or any echoey building. The problem with announcements in stations for example is down to poor control of sound direction with lots of confusing echoes each with a different time delay. They radiate as a big flat fan getting wider as you get further back but it might be down to a matter of trial and error mounting them to get the most audience coverage with the least echo. The usual method is to take advantage of the fact that sound levels drop off as you get further back from the speaker. Mounting them high and angled down gives you better coverage, pointing them at the middle of the intended audience rather than the people at the front helps. The sound loss of not being directly in line at the front is compensated for by being so close to the speakers. Without seeing the building of course it's not possible to be specific. Remember the RCF's or any other horn based speaker is going to be directional too. You can probably find the dispersion angles for the horns for most PA speakers (the RCF is 90x70 which is quite wide). Often they may be described as long, short or medium throw. If you can sketch out a scale drawing of the building it should be possible to find out what the ideal pattern would be and find something to match. The other trick is to have two speakers, a short throw (wide dispersion) to cover the front seats and a long throw pointing at the rear seats, though this may be unnecessarily complex and expensive. I hope this is reasonably clear and helps to give you some things to think about when choosing.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1490004174' post='3261317'] I am not sure of the model but the Mackie Thump 16s we have been using for open mic recently were not good (post RCF?). These were replaced with a pair of Alto that were great for vocals. However at another open mic night we used a Blue Acoustic M2 system (think Bose broomsticks with proper speakers on top) Without doubt the best portable system I have ever played through. [url="http://blue-acoustic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/M2-System-Data-2017.pdf"]http://blue-acoustic...m-Data-2017.pdf[/url] [/quote] Hi John, the Thumps are Mackie's cheap and cheerful versions of a PA speaker, my experience is that they don't sound any worse than other cheap and cheerful speakers and I've heard acoustic acts sounding OK through them but you can't turn them up too loud before the cheap bass drivers overload, I suspect they don't have great Xmax. Efficiency isn't great either so the temptation is to push them too hard. I do know of bands using them successfully as floor monitors where feedback limits the power you can use anyway.