Phil Starr

It's possible anything loose in the room will rattle if you play loud through another cab. If your cab hits the tuning frequency of the broken cab it might even be quite loud. All I can suggest though is that you go through the usual checks. make sure nothing inside the cab is touching the cone, check the internal wiring in particular. then check that the driver is properly bolted down. Go right round the cone making sure everything is glued in place properly checking the corrugated surround and the central dust cap in particular. Also check the rest of the cab to see if anything is loose, it can be difficult to exactly locate where a rattle is coming from by ear. Good luck

Hi Al, replacing speakers is tricky in two ways, neither of them insuperable but you need to know. One is that speakers need to be matched to cabs especially in tuned/ported cabs. without doing that you won't get the best out of the speaker and at worst it can de-rate the power handling of the driver. People here will help you with what you need to do to re-tune the cab but it might mean taking a saw to the cab, difficult if you need to sell it later. The second is that all speakers have their own character and you won't know what they will sound like until they are bought and installed. If you are trying out your MB with the Tecamp then you can go on trying it out with other speakers without having to do any surgery. If you find a dream 1x12 in a cab the same size as your combo it might be simple to do a swap, or not. Would you be happy to take your amp out of the combo and make up a new sleeve for it so you could use it just as an amp? Or would you be better off selling the combo and buying a separates system? £350 plus whatever you get by selling your combo would buy you a lot of good possible choices. Maybe start with the MB III if you like that amp. I settled on the MB Tube after hearing a fellow BC'ers MB III. The problem is that if you alter your combo it will lose value, not a problem if you can do a straight swap and swap the original speaker back if you decide to sell. You might be lucky and be able to fit something like the Eminence 3012HO which is a lovely speaker, lightweight and great excursion/power handling without having to do too much to the cab. Add a second in an add on cab and you'd have huge sound and power handling if you needed that little bit more. I'd need to do some calculations to see if that would work and no-one can guarantee you'd like the sound, that would come down to personal taste.

There's this http://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/pro-speaker-systems/art-7-series/art-708-a-mk4 They used to do one in the 3 series too but that seems to have gone. I was going to suggest PMT too. One of the few places you get to try out PA gear with a reasonable range of stock.

Al the QSC is a whole lot more capable than the Wharfedale. I didn't think we were in that budget region. There's also the RCF to look at if that is your price range. Both fantastic speakers The Titan 's shortcomings are in the plastic mounded cab which resonates with high bass levels. My estimation is that at less than a metre from the drummer it won't need to be that loud though and it would be an order of magnitude better than the Behringer 205D in this respect. I still think it would do the original job of drummers monitor but you won't be playing bass straight through it. The advantage of any speaker with DSP is that they won't ever fart out. The limiters in the DSP will stop that happening, the QSC may even have multi channel limiters where the bass is limited separately, you'd have to look that up. If it has two channel mixing on the speaker the drummer could mix in the feed from the PA to their monitor. Dont believe the 1000W thing though, there isn't an 8" speaker on earth that could handle that. The figure you should be looking at is the output in dB which is way louder than you'd ever need,

Hi Al, I'm just about to set off so no time to answer now, but in the meantime a question. What exactly do you want from an upgrade? Sounds stupid but are you looking for different tone, more bass, greater volume or what?

It depends upon what you are trying to do, if you already own these speakers and are just curious then you'll end up with a working speaker, you'll have learned something and had some fun. If you have to buy these speakers then probably give it a miss. This is not a marriage made in heaven. The first thing is that the speakers have different sensitivities with the Beta being 2-3dB louder than the BP122 so they will dominate the sound. Secondly get the two frequency plots up on screen, all the lumps and bumps above 500Hz are what give the speakers their 'sound'. Where they line up the effect will be additive but few of the bumps line up exactly and what you will get is a smoothed out response. Add in the beaming Bill mentions and it's likely to be a dull sounding speaker though dominated by the Betas. Even if you already own the speakers I'd be tempted to build two 2x12's. That gives you the option of using them together, either cab separately and also as a stereo set up. Together you can use them as a vertical stack which gives better dispersal but if you want to investigate using them side by side as in a traditional 4x12 then that's an option too. If you don't already own the speakers then I'd go for four Betas.

Hope it works out Al. I've got a couple of the 12" versions, really reliable and sound great. Back to learning 'The Final Countdown'

I don't think the cut off frequency should be an issue for a monitor. All the important information about timing etc is carried by the mids and so long as the monitor carries everything above 120Hz I think that'd be fine. In any case the deep bass from your cab is Omni directional so the drummer would hear that. The problem is the speaker handling a lot of bass without distorting. You could use a filter but that makes it complex which won't be the solution you are looking for. One solution did pop up though. DJKit were offering the Wharfedale Titan 8 for little money this week, that's the passive but it occurred to me that the active one at around £180 would maybe do what you want, and it is stand mounted. 119dB spec so it'd drown out the drums if needed and the speakers are electronically protected from mis-use http://www.wharfedalepro.com/product-detail.php?pid=3

You are right to identify the need for a dedicated sound person. That makes one of the advantages of going through the PA less easy to achieve. The advantages of going through the PA are simple enough. Going through the PA means someone out where the audience are can balance the sound for them meaning the whole band sound better. Secondly any sound going on behind the mic line will be picked up by the vocal mics, including your bass. This muddies up the sound going through the PA and means you can never get a clean vocal feed. Then there is the issue of the sound level on stage. High levels damage your hearing long term and make it difficult for us to really hear each other well. Singers are often forced to belt out their vocals straining their voices and making it far harder to sing with any inflection or subtlety just to be heard over the racket. Without any help from the PA you have no choice about volume, it has to be loud enough for the audience. The only advantage of not going through the PA is simplicity. No mics or Di's means less to go wrong and setting up is simple enough for all to understand. Turn up until you are loud enough to match the drums and no-one is louder than each other and then just play. The balance will be the same for every song and whist it might not be perfect it shouldn't be too far out if every band member is sensible. This only works though in small venues if one of the instruments won't reach the back of a big venue you've pretty much got to accept low sound values or all go through the PA.

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1510337429' post='3405785'] A further suggestion re. band PA systems. Don't buy everything jointly. It can get complicated when people leave or the band splits and you have to sell it all (you rarely/never get what it's worth from a utility point of view) or get replacement members to buy into it. Best for individual members to own individual pieces of equipment - one owns the mixing desk, one the speakers (or one each), etc. That way, if you part company, you each take your own stuff with you and if someone leaves, they take what's theirs and the replacement member just has to provide similar. [/quote] This too

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1510321249' post='3405577'] [color=#000000]I’ve thought about going down this route, and I suppose if I went second-hand, then at least if I was to sell it on, the chances are I would get most of my money back.[/color][/size] [/quote] Why not list what your band use at the moment? Then we can suggest upgrades that won't cost the earth and would improve your sound. Who knows; you might get more gigs as a result of sounding better and if not you still own the PA. I went out and bought my PA to prevent this being an issue in any band I'm in. Buy used and you can cash it in any time and get almost all your money back.

It may be about which mixer you use. Some cheaper mixers use the jack input as a line level input and the XLR as a mic level input, which is much lower. If your amps DI output is line level it would be too high output for the XLR mic input. If the mixer has no way of padding (reducing) the input then you can't use it with the XLR to XLR connection. Using the jack connection is better as explained above because it is quieter. Using the DI will allow your guy to match the inputs and use a low noise connection. It means you lose control of what the bass sounds like out of the PA. It's also possible that he wants to do this because it's just what PA engineers do. We're control freaks and also creatures of habit. If you want to send your own eq'd sound then ask him why he can't just run your DI out straight into the XLR/mic input on the mixer. If it's a mismatch then you could use the DI box to pad down your post eq signal. Or if you trust him just let him get on with it, maybe get a long lead and go and listen to the bass through the PA, once he knows the sound you want he should be able to hit it pretty much every time.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1509186434' post='3397191'] What is the better option, powered mixer/passive speakers, or the other way round? [/quote] In today's world it is probably better to use passive mixer/active speakers. If one active speaker goes dead then the other will let you finish the gig. Use active speakers and the amp will always match the speakers and protection can be built in, making the whole thing foolproof. However in practice you won't notice the difference at your price point, so long as your active mixer is powerful enough, and by buying used passive speakers you can probably get something that sounds better than you'd expect the other way round. If you can continue to use your existing mixer then blowing the whole of your budget on a pair of actives would give you an immediate improvement in sound and could be the sensible start of a planned upgrade programme which you could add to as you can afford it. you might find this useful [url="https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1591207"]https://www.ultimate...d.php?t=1591207[/url] it's a little out of date so some of the links might not work but the general principles are still good.

In ears? If that is unacceptable (personally I struggle with feeling isolated from the room with them) then you need to go back to first principles. You need monitoring for both yourself and the drummer, and presumably for the rest of the band? It's not clear what your bass amp is doing in your post. You say it isn't going through the PA so I assume it is loud enough for the audience, if so I'm not sure exactly why the drummer can't hear. One trick I've used to get the sound levels on stage down is to use a bass amp with the mid/highs up and bass rolled off. Then I DI the flat signal into the PA and with the bass boosted through the PA and the tops cut in mirror image to the on stage sound the audience get a balanced mix. It sounds good on stage too because the bass from the PA is audible. Boosting the mids in particular means the bass is much clearer and you can turn the stage monitor down lower, helped by angling the speaker at your (and drummer's) ears. I used a Hartke Kickback to do this. I gave this up in the end because although I liked it my drummers always liked a lot more trouser flapping bass than me. Those mini monitors are really only good for vocals. I've got the TC Voicelive version of the B205D and it's no better at bass. You are going to have to go for floor monitors or small PA speakers to get what you want. You could go for both of you using floor monitors, by angling them at your ears you can get the stage levels down and direct the mid/highs at your ears and away from your vocal/instrument mics.

It's true, my subs usually stay in the cupboard. At least half the times I've used them have been in the more 'lively' pub where they are really only there because they are harder to knock over than speaker stands

First of all I'd say go for something that you know will sound good, that seems obvious but probably means buying a well thought of brand. Secondly list your needs and allow for everything. For me a PA includes all the leads including spares mics, stands, floor monitors as well as the mixer amps and speakers. You may already have some/most of this but it's worth budgeting for everything you need. A brand new hi spec set of active speakers isn't going to sound good if you are using horrible vocal mics and your singer is out of tune because the vocal monitors aren't up to the job. If I was starting from scratch and money no object I'd go for a digital mixer and active speakers, but there's not yet a lot of this on the used market as you are in the early stages of people trading in their old systems. This means that there is a lot of old, heavy passive stuff out there which is very cheap at the moment and which sonically will equal most modern gear. the cost is weight and flexibility. Separate mixers, amps and speakers take longer to set up and knock down and mean more trips to the van but may be the best you can do in your price bracket. You can halve that effort by going for an active mixer like the Yamaha mentioned above. You could match that with a pair of Yamaha club series speakers like the S112V's and have a pretty good sounding basic PA for £300 leaving you money for any extras like monitors. I think you'll struggle to get a PA based on active speakers and a digital mixer at your budget. You could go for a couple of active speakers and use a very simple mixer which you'd update when funds allowed. In which case I'd definitely spend some time on researching the speakers and make sure they are what you want in your final system. RCF are the ones to beat at the moment but EV and Yamaha make some good kit too.

Slade, it does have a good bass line, genuinely fin to play IMO.

Great event last year. I'll look forward to it.

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1509029092' post='3396168'] Don't 4 5" speakers have exactly the same surface area as a single 10"? Area of a circle is Pi x r squared. So 2.5 x 2.5 x 3.142 x 4 = 78.55, the same as 5 x 5 x 3.142. [/quote]By and large for the same excursion the surround needs to be the same size for both sizes of speaker. So the cone of the 5" speaker is usually nearer 4" and the 10" speaker 9" very roughly.

You say the cab has never worked? If so I'd advise you check everything thoroughly before you start any rewiring. Do all the speakers work. It looks like they are all giving the right sort of resistance reading with your meter so that's a good sign but I'd test them all anyway by connecting them each in turn to a signal of about a watt or so to make sure they sound OK without any obvious distortion. You can just use any solid state amp and make up a lead with a couple of bare wires or better still some spade connectors on them. Connect each one up in turn with nothing else connected to the speaker. The volume you are looking for is about that of a domestic radio or TV. You'll lose some bass without the cab intact but you should get an otherwise clear tone out of them. If they all work like this then the fault is with the wires or the socket or possibly a fuse in the little circuit board on the back of the tweeter. Actually in your photo it looks like there might be a fuse missing, just saying.... Anyway each speaker is 8ohms, the nominal impedance is made up of the dc resistance that you have measured plus a little extra due to the inductance of the voice coil which varies with frequency so it's always higher than the DC resistance. Basically your cab is wired so the adjacent speakers are wired in series + to - making each pair 16ohms These pairs are then wired in parallel making 4ohms overall. All the spare +'s down one side are connected to the orange wire and the spare -'s down the other to the brown - wire. If you wire them up as shown then a test signal connected to the orange and brown wires should get all the 10's singing.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ratchet-tie-down-straps-5m-x-25mm-2-pack/24567

That's really good news Geoff I hope you and the cabs spend many happy hours together

It's a shame there aren't better sites. Bandmix would be stupidly expensive if you simply let your payments keep on running. The mailing alerts function very poorly, I set up the criteria to only include local musicians and it included people over 100 miles away at times. the searching is crazy and some people come up multiple times when you search, all in all I'm unlikely to subscribe if so much of the software is so full of glitches. Join My Band probably suffers by being so simple and free. Any dreamer can put up details at no effort and so there is a lot of chaff amongst the wheat. Nonetheless if you read the ads carefully or put some effort into wording your own ads carefully it is possible to find people. Lemonrock is great for finding musicians/bands as nearly everyone on there is paying a sub to promote their band or their gigs. The only problem is that it is geographically patchy, Great for the West Country and some of the home counties but not much activity in large swathes of the country. The big problem though is musicians, I can't understand quite why they are so disorganised in the main.

There's nothing difficult about acoustic coupling. when the sound bounces off the floor it gets to your ears a fraction of a second later then the sound from the speaker because it's a longer journey. The further from the floor the greater the delay. If the speaker is close to the floor then the difference is very small compared to the wavelength and it doubles the sound you hear. As the frequency increases the wavelength gets smaller so there's a frequency where you get cancellation and there is a suckout instead of reinforcement. The frequency of this first suckout depends only upon the distance from the floor. There's another sort of coupling which is about anchoring the speaker to the floor. Playing loud on a wooden floor sometimes makes the floor resonate and a bit of decoupling is quite useful. On a soft floor the speaker will move around as you sometimes notice when your pint hits the floor or the speaker starts moving across the stage on it's castors. It is useful sometimes to be able to put the speaker flat on the stage. The solution is to simply make up a trolley with your castors using a board the size of your biggest speaker. On good surfaces you can simply push it on the trolley, if it's an uneven surface you can simply strap the speaker to the trolley and unstrap it at the other end if you wish. Or buy one of the ones that are designed for moving furniture. Having said that I use a folding sack truck.

What the hell is the cab made of? The two speakers are quite heavy at 5kg each but that leaves a 20kg cab??? I'd suggest a simple cab build yourself if those figures check out. You could build it out of 12- 18mm ply the same size as the GK and it would probably weigh in 5-10kg depending upon the exact ply you used and how much bracing you put in. If you go onto the eminence website they have designs for the Delta's if you wanted to build a 1x10 or two http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_10A_cab.pdf