Phil Starr

All of the above. If like me you are a tinkerer nothing will stop you and we'll be happy to talk you through it. If you are someone who should never be let loose with a hammer then all you will do will be to downvalue your cab at best and the sensible advice would be to sell and buy what you want. How sensible is an 8x10 anyway

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1479735355' post='3178820'] Well partly it's a question of more displacement. Partly it's a question of a bigger low end - of whether another 2 x 10 ( 4 x 10 overall) will give me more low end overall then adding a 1 x 15 (2 x 10 + 1 x 15). A Stingray pumped through aluminium cones, with plenty of current gives me enough bite, but I really want to fatten up the lows a little when playing loud. TBH, having heard (on many occasions) Shellac's Bob Weston playing into his usual 2 x 400 Crown mono power amps > separate 15" Dietz cabs and again into an SVT 8 x 10, I'm not sure there's that much in it once you have surplus headroom and a big propagating surface. 2 x 2 x 10 would be easier to transport, that's for sure. [/quote] 2x2x10's are going to be enough to drown out the drums, you don't need any more volume than that. Mixing a 15 in will change your sound but unpredictably, 15's don't necessarily go deeper than 10's it depends upon the model. generally when you mix speakers you lose a little of the character of both and get a 'smoothed out' sound, but as I say it is unpredictable and you'll only find out after you buy.

Rich, I'm worrying about you. I don't think it's a problem playing just for the joy of it, I know at least as many musicians in your position as ones out there playing in bands every weekend. It's all good. You are right to realise it's about priorities and few of us can have everything we want, especially without a decent job. there's a wistfulness about your posts though. There's nothing to stop you from being an occasional band member. There's always people out there in the same place as you who need a bassist but will play anyway. I started playing with a bunch of teachers for example. They'd got too old for the Fri after school five a side/twenty over cricket in the summer and formed a 'band' just to unwind. They ran for years just for fun and the odd song at school 'do's'. I still currently play with a neighbour and another guitarist he's roped in. They'll practice without me if I can't make it, there's never any criticism, it's just fun. There's also an old (very old) university mate I play with four or five times a year. We hit the open mics sometimes but it's just fun to play and talk. He retires soon, we might form a band, go out as a duo or just keep doing what we do. I suspect you are way better than I am, there are people who would love to have your help and you need do no more than dip your toe in the water. Good luck

If you are going to play then you need to replace the strings, new strings transform the bass and make them more exciting to play. Generally speaking roundwounds are what you should go for as a beginner. The big choice is between steels which are generally brighter and nickels which are more mellow. There is overlap though, not all steels and nickels sound the same. Steels tend to be rougher on your fingers and nickels hold their tone longer usually. The market leader steels (rotosound) really don't hold their tone long though some people like the tone of old strings. I'd say go for some decent nickels and see how you get on, then when the time comes to change go for some steels and then you'll know. Homing in on 'your' strings is just one of the pleasures that await you and we can all get really nerdy about it. Think of anglers discussing their favourite lures.

I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone else has said, all worth investigating but I want to open up another possibility. You mention your hearing early on. If your hearing is suffering a bit. (Who on Basschat isn't?) You also talk about altering your tone a lot. This is ringing alarm bells because surely you ought to set tone for the band, not for your own monitoring. You need to sort this in a way that works for both. Firstly boosting the bass and treble will always make picking yourself out harder not easier. It's the mids we need to pick out our tone from the mix and boosting those or cutting bass in particular will help you pick yourself out more easily. If you are boosting bass to get the sound you need for the band/audience then hold off and trust the P to deliver in the mix even if it sounds thin to you. The sound signatures of the P and J are very different, hearing loss if you have any is likely to hit a few limited frequencies, mainly in the mids and highs. Again it is the mids that are crucial in distinguishing sounds. Another factor might be the Quarterpounder. All of these overwound pups have a high inductance that cuts the top end at 6dB/octave above a certain frequency, simply an inevitable physical consequence of all those turns of wire. If that is at a frequency you are already missing a little... Two strategies you can try before reaching for the credit card are pointing a cab at your ears a little more or shifting a little of your sound into the PA (or a little more if that's what you do already). Turn up the mids/highs on your monitors to get more articulation and the boost the bass through the PA by the same amount to restore your sound. Or buy some in ears. Oh, I didn't like the sound of the TC and went for an MB Tube which I love, mainly because I never have to touch it, it just makes my bass loud.

You could try feeding a signal straight[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] into the fx return next time the fault materialises ideally from something like a Sansamp with a bit of gain. This would tell you whether the power amp section is still working. It probably is because of the hiss but worth a check, apart from the fx loop problem i can't suggest anything simple as a solution. Intermittent faults are the worst.[/font][/color]

It would be worth ringing Ashdown who have always been good at customer support, even when I rang them when their offices were flooded a few years back!

Eminence do make custom drivers for others and although there might be saving to be made the ratio between lightweight neo drivers and heavier ceramic ones would remain. There's also the question of demand. As well as weight there is also the question of size, Why carry a 200l cab when a 50l one does the job? Why take something that needs a van for transport when you could use a cab that fits in your boot. The reality is that modern speakers handle more power and amplifier watts are cheap. 500W into a 2x12 is going to be louder than a drummer and easy to carry. That's not to say there is no place for a lightweight 4x10, just that only a few people are going to want one and so only the boutique manufacturers are going to be able to make money out of building them. That makes them niche and expensive.

You are spoiled for choice. Playing along with songs of your choice and the right level of difficulty has long been one of the ways of practicing, It's fun but easy to persuade yourself you are better than you really are. Once you have a song nailed drum machines are great tutors. Keeping great time and counting bars are the things that benefit and you can develop improvisation skills just by changing the beat but keeping the same chord structure as a song you know well. Learning fast songs at a reduced speed and building up tempo is good as is repetition of a tricky lick to get it nailed and smooth There's so much stuff on the internet including some decent online tutors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic1yWJNhxXQ https://www.youtube.com/user/devinebass https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGyPWBc1GFIxRaoWrfR_vRA Don't forget Ultimate Guitar which has midi files of many of their tabs that you can play back at any speed and mix the bass right up and everything else down. I find the best way to do most of this is with a simple mixer and headphones which will take the output from any source with a headphone outlet and mix your bass and that signal. I use the Zoom B1ON which also has a tuner and a built in drum machine https://www.gak.co.uk/en/zoom-b1on-bass-effects-pedals/104730, it does loads of other stuff too

[quote name='redbandit599' timestamp='1479121997' post='3174033'] Cheers - yes, I suppose I'm trying the pick the 'new breed' of songs that are post this period - don't get me wrong this stuff is all good solid pub rock material. [/quote]Yeah that is a bit more problematic for the average pub band. There's been a gradual disappearance of guitar sounds but more importantly an increase in the places people find their music, so few songs achieve the universality of the charts of twenty years ago. There are plenty of great songs though, they just need a bit of work on them to get them to become pub rock songs. Crazy, Gnarls Barkley. Sing, Ed Sheeran, Ho Hey, Wake Me Up all good crowd pleasers you could rock up, we also do Counting Stars, Pompeii which go OK if you work on the vocals. Lots of rocked up Lady Gaga too. When we looked for stuff to rock up recently all the songs we ended up with were written by one man Max Martin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin who comes from a rock background so many of his songs easily reverse engineer into rock songs. Good luck with your guitarists though, a lot of modern pop is great for the rhythm section but hated by six stringers.

All of the above is spot on, the only addition I can make is to eq your on stage monitors appropriately. If you are having these problems then I assume most of what the audience hears of your bass is coming from the PA? If this is the case then you can afford to roll the bass on your backline down quite a lot and boost the mids and highs. Then what you hear should be back to the sort of sound you want to hear, If that makes your FOH sound too toppy then you can cut a little of the mid/highs on your PA eq. Then take advantage of the directional nature of higher frequencies by pointing your cabs straight at your ears, either by raising the cab or tilting it back.

Bohemian like you Monster the Automatic Golden Touch Razorlight Gold On The Ceiling Black Keys Local Boy Stereophonics Take Me Our Franz Ferdinand Loads by the Killers, Kaiser Chiefs, Chilli Peppers, Stereophonics (Greenday, Manics,Blur and Oasis if you stretch back to the 90's) Actually the Britpop/Indie period in the 90's, 00's was a bit of a golden era for us covers bands.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1479104002' post='3173889'] The peavey 410s use (or used to use anyway) the "sheffield" driver which is very low excursion by modern standards although probably plenty for with 4 of them for most real world applications. If it were possibly to cheaply produce a lightweight cab with decently high efficiency, very high power handling and good bass extension then one has to wonder why someone isn't doing it already. [/quote] just a quick look at what a manufacturer would face in trying to make an affordable lightweight 4x10. Just a quick comparison the Eminence Beta10 weighs in at 3kg and the Deltalite at 2kg. Xmax is 3mm v's 4.2mm. The cost is £463 for four Deltalites and £237 for the Betas. The magnet on the Beta weighs 34oz v's 7ox for the deltalite. Presumably using a cheaper and lighter pressed chassis on the Deltalite could bring the weight down a bit more, about 0.75 of a kg per speaker. Crucially because of the more powerful neo magnet in the Deltalite you could make a smaller cab for a similar bass performance saving more weight on top of the 4kg you'd save on the speakers and making the cab more manoeuvrable. Other manufacturers would face the same economics so roughly you'd expect to pay double the price for lightweight drivers and would save 6-10kg in weight.

Why write a song at all? If you have something to say and you want others to hear it then deliberately challenging them with unusual sounds makes no sense. Most music is about shared experiences, ideas, or just good old entertainment. It's for the many not the few. If you want to have a musical conversation limited to other musicians then fine, they may well get what you are saying but it is going to be music about music only. Nothing wrong with that, but not for me thanks. Looked at another way you have 8 notes in your scale, 2,3,4,5......16 beats to the bar, rests, key changes, verse, chorus pre-chorus, bridge, coda, fills, turnarounds, chord inversions...... That all gives you a few lifetimes of non-repetition even with four chords. For me modern classical music has lost it's way a little in comparison, the urge to try the new and different means a lot of more recent 'serious' music comes across as academic exercise and possibly elitist. Lacking mass appeal it has ossified, lacking the freshness of popular music even though the palette is more limited. The back catalogue is pretty good though.

My battery went flat the other day and I didn't notice until I tried to adjust the tone controls. Replacing the battery there was a clear difference in tone but nothing so huge you couldn't happily gig without the audience noticing. There's definitely something wrong here.

If you are asking if it is completely safe under all conditions then the answer is no. Could you operate this pairing safely, then yes. Unless you are going to drive the amp consistently into distortion I'd doubt you'd burn it out but if you use a fiver, lots of fx or boost the bass then you could get past the excursion limits. One thing that would help might be a thumpinator which filters subsonics.

It's really hard to diagnose a fault from this distance. Language isn't a good way to describe odd sounds. As above check all round that nothing inside the cab is touching the speaker. Then have a good look at the cone itself to see if anything has come unstuck or if there are any small tears.

I've had a brief look at the Eminence kappa on winisd. the frequency response is probably ok in that cab but handling at 80 Hz is only about 40W, so your going to find it has a short life in that cab. The trouble is excursion with the kappa. On a broader note you won't find a cheap driver that works there. Without a big wedge of air in the cab to tame the driver you need a speaker with a big and therefore expensive driver. It'd be cheaper to look at another cab No point in buying a £200 driver for a cheap cab. All you need to fit a 12" driver is a rectangle of ply the size of your baffle (front panel of the cab) B7Q will cut that for you. Fit the speaker to that and screw the board onto the front of the cab. If you cant cut the hole find a carpenter who will cut a round hole for the speaker they will probably only charge a few quid to do that.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/sunn-215s-speaker-identification.827206/ look at post 10. The S indicated Sunn's own drivers. It wouldn't be difficult to reverse engineer the cab to find a good match, I don't suppose there was anything very special about the drivers. Peavey Black Widows would be a good cheap option if a bit heavy. You could buy old Peavey cabs and junk the cab if you wanted or there are a few about on eBay. Ideally go for the ones with the metal domes which is what Peavey fitted in their own 2x15 which have a little more sparkle than the other BW models.

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1478680527' post='3170785'] This is key to me. I'm in two bands at the moment. I play mostly fretless in one, with tight precise drum sound, acoustic guitar, piano and not much distortion on the electric guitar. Here I need a clean and clear sound. The other band has two incredibly powerful female singers, fiddle, organ, furious hand percussion (no kit) and a very saturated heavy guitar sound. They were very specific about wanting 'rock' bass - and that means grit. A Stingray and a slightly overdriven preamp got the thumbs up. The BassDirect pitch was that if you need to adjust your tone on the amp away from flat, you have the wrong bass. The sound I was hearing from a MarkBass 2 x 12 setup was extremely HiFi - like plugging straight into a desk. This is not what I had in mind at all. I want to preserve the character of the bass, but most of the amps I've liked in the past have definitely coloured the sound in some pleasing way. The best live sound I've ever had (for my taste) was with Ampeg - in no way a neutral sound - and the biggest surprise was how much impact an old PortaFlex could have. It was a small cellar bar, but I wasn't mic-ed up. The amp's owner - who was standing right at the back of the room for the whole show - had never heard it from the audience's viewpoint commented after the show on how clear and full it had sounded (he'd been going through a bit of buyers remorse, thinking he should have got something bigger). I could hear - and feel - every note too. This may be heretical, but I think that the trend for ultra compact gear has parallels in the HiFi world. The principal design consideration for domestic loudspeakers is footprint, the the sound is engineered to that constraint. People don't want big boxes in their homes. OTOH, I still use huge 1970s Tannoy studio monitors with 15" coaxial drivers, weighing 50 Kg each. I understand why not everyone wants to lug an SVT around, but I'm pretty sure that even a Mini can transport a 15 and 2 x 10. I'm looking at Hartke gear as a probable route (I used it once in the past and it did the job fine). Single 2 x 10 cab for practice room and add a 15 for live. It won't break the bank either. [/quote] OK that post is a bit of a game changer. You know what you like and you are already playing in two bands. There's nothing wrong with Hartke (I've a HA3500 as well as the MB Tube) or go for the Portaflex if you like that. You are absolutely right to choose on the basis of how it sounds. The lightweight gear thing isn't just fashion though, it's changing technology. Speakers use different construction/materials meaning they can handle hundreds of watts rather than the tens of years gone by and the price of amplifier watts has fallen so it makes sense to carry smaller speaker cabs and a bigger amp for a similar result. The current state of play is that a couple of 12's are about where the sweet spot is without going too esoteric. BTW I built a couple of cabs with the old 15 Tannoy Gold concentrics back in the 70's, lovely things. Glad to see you have a clearer idea of where you are going, good luck.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478721625' post='3171243'] That's interesting. So taking what's being said here in the thread. The way NOT to do it is answering small ads. So the access is somewhat limited. I could start a band, but even though I'm 57 I have zero knowledge about running a band. That said, I'm no numpty, so I can imagine a lot of the logistical and marketing stuff. I would also need to invest in a PA and lights etc. The other thing I would need is time - to invest in getting the play-list together with sheets etc to hand out, marketing.... Exactly. [/quote] [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478681741' post='3170799'] True, others may not agree that what I do is playing bass, but it suits me. I'm trying to get my head round something from "My Fair Lady" right now. I play almost every day and it fits in with my lifestyle as I play for any odd half-hours etc that I get the chance. "Why don't I change to guitar", you might ask? I just prefer the tone of a bass guitar to the twang of the treble-clef. I'm sure I'm not alone, am I? [/quote] Hi, there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you do, it's perfectly normal and there are thousands of musicians around the country who just love the experience of playing an instrument and the joy of learning new things. You haven't mentioned your love and knowledge of gear and restorations and tweaking you do (thanks for introducing me to the J-Retro btw) But, there seems to be a a bit of you that hankers after the band experience. I'd say don't let a bad past experience put you off. The biggest plus is also the biggest minus IMO. People are lovely, kind generous and fun, they are also a source of all hassle. Put that to one side and there are still two good reasons for joining a band. Making music with others is fun, joyful even. I was hooked fairly early on, I was almost the age you are now when I started, with half a dozen songs learned I was playing at my third rehearsal with some mates and suddenly I wasn't thinking about the bass any more but playing music. The sound was coming and I was no longer thinking, just playing. Magic. Entertaining others is fun, even if it can also be a little scary at times. The buzz of watching a few hundred people dancing in time with your fingers and their excitement at the end of a gig they've enjoyed. Wow! The thing is you can get the first experience of playing with others without having to join a gigging band. There's plenty of people out there who just enjoy the music making process, getting together with each other to play just for the love of it. I was out last night lending my bass to people with busy lives who meet up for a couple of hours a week to just enjoy playing. They'll do the odd open mic but just the joy of sharing an interest is what they are about. Moving on to a gigging band is a big commitment. There's all the gear for sure but keeping 2 hours worth of music up to gigging standards and compromising your music to suit an audience, never mind the egos..... The biggest problem is your job/lifestyle but I'd say make the effort might be interesting. Don't worry about the small ads thing. I've met lovely people and real ****'s in the same proportions they are in the general population that way. Open mics are a good way of meeting musicians who for whatever reason aren't gigging, and you get to hear before you buy. I've had a lot of joy just working with a singer/guitarist as an informal duo. The bass genuinely adds to what they do and just working with one other person is so easy. You get to talk about the music, you get to try anything and in one case it made the core of a gigging band as it grew. Hope you find what you want, and if that turns out to be what you already have then that is good too.

[quote name='jacko' timestamp='1478696064' post='3170983'] you've said you're playing country because you're audience want to hear it. Why not pander to them even more by playing the original bass line. That's what worked for the song back in the day - no reason at all why it shouldn't work for the song now. [/quote] [quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1478698006' post='3171004'] Try practicing restraint rather than embellishment. A much more useful skill. [/quote] [quote name='casapete' timestamp='1478698935' post='3171019'] Agree with the keeping it simple approach. Sometimes doesn't need to be even root/5th, just root/root!! Lots of skill in not overplaying and thinking about exactly where to put the notes in each bar so as not to lose the groove. I love it.... [/quote] [quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1478701254' post='3171037'] The words "embellish the bass part" and "country music" don't belong in the same universe, I'm afraid. Embellishment in country is for the guitar, steel, fiddle or any of the melody instruments, but NOT the bass player, I'm afraid. Sorry. Just have to play the bag and save the adventurous stuff for another time. [/quote] Sometimes you hate people for being right Actually it's going to be an interesting challenge, I might even have to pay attention to string damping.

[quote name='Surrpaul' timestamp='1478687436' post='3170878'] Cheers guys. All sound advice. I've been playing nearly 20 years and this is the first time in many years I've thought I am out of my comfort zone. [/quote] you've no idea how reassuring this is, I was about to put up a thread about how to play country. I've sat in with a band for a couple of gigs and just been asked by someone to play some country/Americana with his band. I'm finding it really hard, you've got to keep it really simple so there is nowhere to hide. Timing has to be on the nail, you are often playing two to the bar or even one and the chord changes don't seem to fall where I expect them. It's all root fifth, except it isn't and the dominant 7th kills the songs I'm playing. Chromatic runs don't seem to work at all, though scale runs do, but then again not too often. Help Guys I'm lost I'm going to have to listen to a lot of this stuff I think, tough as I'm not that keen but it is going to be an education.

I use the B1ON too as do many people here. I get about a weeks practice out of rechargeables, probably more as i just recharge them once a week and I can't remember them running out other than when I forget to unplug the lead.

You really aren't going to overload the pickup, or move the strings out of the magnetic field. I think the distortion is coming from problems in the gain structure. as the signal passes through your amp it is amplified in stages. at the simplest there'll be an input stage then some sort of tone and volume control which may have their own gain then there will probably be further amplification up to the input to the power amp with probably a further volume control then the power amp. One of your volume controls will probably be labelled gain. You might also have an active bass with its own pre amp and the bass will have a volume control. Each amplification stage will have a point where it overloads, once it overloads and distorts the following stages will simply pass the distortion on. Now if you turn the master volume right up to full and the guitar volume down you'll have a small signal going to the early stages and all the gain right at the power amp. So long as this doesn't overload you won't have any distortion. Now turn the master volume down and the guitar and the earlier volume controls right up and there is a strong possibility you'll have distortion at one of the earlier stages even though you will still be operating at the same volume. Operating the tone controls with boosts will also potentially create overloads. 10db of boost is asking your amp to produce a lot more voltage. The problem is that if you turn the master volume up full it will amplify all the electronic noise in the amp, leads and pickup noise (if the guitar is turned up full) I'd check the batteries if I was operating an active bass. A flat battery will limit the maximum voltage a bass can produce. I'd turn the volume on the bass up to 3/4 and check on an active bass that I didn't have too much bass boost. Turn the master volume down so you are operating at a low volume. You should be able to get an undistorted sound however hard you play. If you get distortion you may need to turn the pre-amp volume/gain down a little. If you can't get a clean sound then there is something else going on. If you can't get clean you can try turning down the bass even more. Once you get a clean sound at this level you can turn up the master volume and you should get the same clean sound until you meet the amps maximum volume. Now if you want a little distortion you can turn up the gain and the master down until the distortion is how you want it.