Phil Starr

I'm concerned you are continuing to give yourself electric shocks. Depending upon a few variables it could be fatal. Please stop. I'm a little surprised PMT are taking things so lightly, your relatives might sue if you are killed. It could be anything from the wiring in the house to having any or all of your electrical goods being faulty but with no test gear and your current (!) level of knowledge you need someone to come and check. I've an idea what it is but I'm reluctant to suggest anything in case you decide since the previous shocks didn't do any lasting damage that one more won't hurt. Get someone in who can test what voltages you are dealing with, where they come from and how good your earth circuits are. Good luck and don't use up any more of your nine lives. Seriously.

Bill's right, they tune your cab to the best frequency for your speakers, without them the bass response will be all over the place, more importantly the power handling of your speakers will be reduced and you could end up damaging them terminally if you operate them at high volumes with lots of bass.

Functions are like this, they usually pay better but they are more hassle. You usually end up offering mics for speeches for Uncle Albert to do a 'turn' or you may be asked to provide a background playlist for the break. the people booking you are usually good people but have no experience of working with bands. Yes they should have asked but if they have transgressed then it's probably just because they don't know the system or as suggested that a polite request got lost in the Chinese whispers of it getting to you. It's no real biggy to provide one mic and tweak a knob or two as you have the PA there anyway. It'd be more hassle if she brought her own PA. £350 sounds like a good sum for a first gig. Relax

Hmm, I don't think it's going to be as easy as you think. You'll need two things in place to use this sort of set up to make it work, a crossover so that only the bass goes to the TC and an amp to drive it, though i guess you have a bass amp?? You could easily enough drive the bass amp using the tape output or you could remove the jumpers from the pre out and use the hi fi version of the effects loop. However you are going to find the TC is so much louder than your hi fi that it isn't going to be easy to get a good balance. On top of that bass speakers don't go as low as hi fi ones generally so you'll get more bass but not deeper bass and less realistic sound. All in all you'd probably be better off looking at a proper hi fi sub woofer with all the electronics built in. Maybe go and ask at your nearest Richer sounds or other hi fi stockist.

Hi, it looks like they've changed the design of this speaker again. I've just compared today's spec sheet with that of 2008 when I bought my speakers and one from about 4 years ago and on each the specs vary by enough to need a redesign of a suitable cab. The latest specs claim an improved excursion (Xmax) of 5mm compared to 3.2mm a few years back but Qts which is important in fitting the cab to the speaker has gone up to 0.65 from 0.5 in the latest version http://www.fane-international.com/prod_details.aspx?pid=534 . This means it is no longer suitable for a ported cab and in a sealed cab will have a bit of an upper bass hump and reduced bass extension. It has a pleasant sounding hump in the upper mids though and might sound quite nice as a 4x10 or 8x10, sort of Ampeg like. It's not far off being a clone of the Eminence Alpha 10. The 10-300 seems to have been a more stable design but has a very flat response making it a bit colourless as a driver in it's own right. This is from personal experience. It has a really well controlled bottom end but I'd only use it with a horn of some sort if I wanted to use it for bass. It has a huge magnet for a 10 so weighs quite a lot as a 2x10. Shame as the 2008 version of the 10-125 had a great sound for bass and I still use mine in a 2x10. I'd currently go for the Beyma SM110 as the best value cheap 10" speaker.

The majority of bands and solo acts tend to use a variant of the 12" + horn as a PA with subs if they put kick and bass through the PA. That's because it is currently the sweet spot for power price and portability. You've got to realise that most 12" drivers will only handle about 300W. That's down to two things, how much heat they can dissipate and how far the cone can move before distorting or damaging something (Xmax and Xlim). So anything that claims 1000W into a 12" driver is misleading you. With class D amps you might get a little extra power for a fraction of a second which helps with undistorted headroom and with DSP (signal processing) protecting the speaker then you shouldn't get any overshoot of the cone. So it's kind of true that some of the new actives are 1000W (or whatever) but but that is only for brief periods and they aren't actually any louder than an old fashioned 300W PA. As someone has said look at the SPL levels and you'll find most of the better PA tops claiming 127-130dB (that'll be peak levels) which is bloody loud and good enough to do vocals and almost everything else for a pub band. For price and portability they'll do most acoustic acts a good job too.

If they say it's analogue then it probably is analogue. Anyway here is my guess as to its workings. You can do this with an ordinary torch bulb (with huge bandwidth restrictions and distortion due to hysteresis/time lapse) connect a bulb to your speaker output and it will light up in time with your playing. As one or two people have already pointed out it was commonly used in the past to couple/decouple and compress a signal. A lot of old 70's disco sound light machines ran off the speaker jack and used this technique to decouple the speakers and act as a bit of automatic volume control. Using a led would give you a much faster response time and you'd just drive it off a pre amp circuit at the guitar end, hence the battery. At the other end you need a light dependant resistor or transistor to turn the signal back to an electrical one, hence the second battery. For me it's just a gimmick though. None of the 'problems' with guitar leads have ever worried me in practice and my very ordinary G30 radio connection works great too. Long term I'm not convinced of the stability of an optic fibre and connectors gigged every night and chucked into a lead box at the end of every gig after being wound up by the drummist.

That 8.25mm Xmax won't be definitive. That could just be down to changing the way Xmas is calculated. If you've got the new version then check the cone mass you used as that is definitely higher. I hope in a way that you have the new cone. You like the speaker and it would seem you've tried it out for us.

[quote name='Gottastopbuyinggear' timestamp='1470085240' post='3103227'] Hmm... Two questions spring to mind: (1) Will I be able to tell if my two drivers, one bought in late April and the other earlier this month, are different specs? (2) If they are, will that have any impact on how the cabs sound as a pair? [/quote] might be worth a few emails to the retailer and/or Beyma. Are there any serial no.s on them?

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Annoyingly after we have done all this work Beyma have now upgraded and changed the SM212 Don't panic though, I've run the new driver through WinISD and frankly the changes are fairly minor and IMO an improvement. Basically they have made the cone slighly heavier, stiffened the suspension a little and maybe made some tweaks of the coil/magnet circuit. It means the frequency response is a little flatter and the speaker will work slightly better in a small box. With the proviso that all our tests were on the old driver I think it will work very well in our cab. Anyway on a quick look this is what they've done.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Xmax is now 8.25mm up from 7mm, that's entirely down to changing the way they calculate it. They used to use the most pessimistic way of calculating Xmax but now use the rather more optimistic methods used by Eminence and others. Either way it is very good for a driver at this price level.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Vd (total air shifted) is correspondingly increased but nothing has really changed apart from the calculations.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]They've changed to a heavier cone which has changed the frequency response a little. The new speaker will give a slightly cleaner and more extended bass, but hardly noticeable unless you put them next to each other IMO. The thicker cone has damped out the 2kHz cone resonance that some of us have noticed in the prototypes. This is probably a good thing but I've got quite fond of the little brightness/slight roughness on some notes. Again this is probably a subtle improvement in the new driver.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The quoted frequency range in Beyma's specs has gone from 45-6000Hz in the old version to 45-4000 in the new driver, actually the frequency response curve is very similar so I don't think that you'd notice any loss of top end apart from the damped cone resonance at 2000Hz.. These figures are at a -10dB level but as the curve isn't flat it's not altogether clear what they are using as the base level. the old driver crosses the 90dB line at 6000 Hz and the new one at 5,500Hz.. There isn't really a loss of 2000Hz from the top end.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Not in the above, but to my mind more significant, is that with changes in the suspension and the cone plus some other tweaking Vas has come down to 103l which means this driver is happier in a smaller cab like the Basschat 12. The result is that the small bass peak of about 2dB in the original is down to 0.5db with the new driver and there's a tiny bit more low bass, perhaps 0.5db at bottom E. You won't notice that but you probably would notice the cleaner bass around 100Hz.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The heavier cone and slightly stiffer suspension also means the midrange efficiency is slightly down.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]So, to be fair to Beyma I think what they have done is tweaked a bargain speaker slightly; which makes it more usable in a small cab like my design giving a slightly better (in the sense of flatter) frequency response with almost no penalty to the user. I can't see any reason to change the design at the moment.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]In case you missed it there's a thread in the build diaries of someone who has built the 1x12 [/font][/color][url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282230-a-1x12-or-maybe-two/"]http://basschat.co.u...2-or-maybe-two/[/url] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Blue Aran have the SM212 in stock for once [/font][/color][url="http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BMASM212"]http://www.bluearan....php?id=BMASM212[/url][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]

Hi all, I've just run this through WinISD and had a good look through the specs of both the old and new SM212 drivers. First I'll deal with the specs above. Xmax is now 8.25mm up from 7mm, that's entirely down to changing the way they calculate it. They used to use the most pessimistic way of calculating Xmax but now use the rather more optimistic methods used by Eminence and others. Either way it is very good for a driver at this price level. Vd (total air shifted) is correspondingly increased but nothing has really changed apart from the calculations. They've changed to a heavier cone which has changed the frequency response a little. The new speaker will give a slightly cleaner and more extended bass, but hardly noticeable unless you put them next to each other IMO. The thicker cone has damped out the 2kHz cone resonance that some of us have noticed in the prototypes. This is probably a good thing but I've got quite fond of the little brightness/slight roughness on some notes. Again this is probably a subtle improvement in the new driver. The quoted frequency range in Beyma's specs has gone from 45-6000Hz in the old version to 45-4000 in the new driver, actually the frequency response curve is very similar so I don't think that you'd notice any loss of top end apart from the damped cone resonance at 2000Hz.. These figures are at a -10dB level but as the curve isn't flat it's not altogether clear what they are using as the base level. the old driver crosses the 90dB line at 6000 Hz and the new one at 5,500Hz.. Not in the above, but to my mind more significant, is that with changes in the suspension and the cone plus some other tweaking Vas has come down to 103l which means this driver is happier in a smaller cab like the Basschat 12. The result is that the small bass peak of about 2dB in the original is down to 0.5db with the new driver and there's a tiny bit more low bass, perhaps 0.5db at bottom E. You won't notice that but you probably would notice the cleaner bass around 100Hz. The heavier cone and slightly stiffer suspension also means the midrange efficiency is slightly down. So, to be fair to Beyma I think what they have done is tweaked a bargain speaker slightly; which makes it more usable in a small cab like my design giving a slightly better (in the sense of flatter) frequency response with almost no penalty to the user. I can't see any reason to change the design at the moment. I'll post this into the main thread too.

Hi, I need a new computer, it won't open Beyma's new spec sheet Grrr Looking at the specs on Blue Aran's website though it looks like they've made some quite extensive changes though with a heavier cone, different voice coil and suspension. As soon as I get time I'll check the modelling and let you know what I think. My instinct is that using this speaker in a 50l cab tuned to 50Hz is still going to work well but the heavier cone may be less liable to flex, tightening up the bass at the expense of a little treble extension. I'm not committing to anything until I've modelled it though. I'll post here first then update the design thread.

Hi Les Looks like you are unlucky. The Peavey has a filter so that only the bass gets through (a low pass filter) to the sub, but everything goes through to the tops. That means the tops will still have to deal with all the bass. More modern designs will usually have a complete crossover built into the sub, often with two outputs offering the option of filtered or unfiltered. So run the leads to the subs and you can then daisy chain the tops from the subs. This will bethe same as running all the leads from the desk or running to the tops and then the subs but its probably going to be the tiniest solution on stage, less to trip over. With this set up you'll be getting just a little bass boost from the subs but the tops will still get all the bass so you'll still need to avoid overloading them. It'll work but isn't the best way of using subs. You could experiment with rolling off the bass by using the soloist mode on the Mackie, or even the monitor mode, though this cuts some midst as well. Try fiddling around with different combinations when you are rehearsing. If it sounds good use it if not then keep it simple. Ideally though you ought to think of getting a crossover if you are going to use this a lot at high volume levels, cutting the bass to the tops will give you a better sound and more headroom. They cost less than £100 for a budget brand.

Hi Les, yes it does matter. Somewhere in the chain you need to have a crossover so the bass only goes to the subs and is Stopped from going to the tops. There might be a crossover built into your mixer or the subs. There isn't one in the tops. I couldn't find a manual for the Peavey so I can't help there much, it has a crossover to the sub but you need to find out if it has a high pass output to the tops. If not then you may need a separate crossover. If you can find a link to a manual for the Peavey I'll have a look for you

[quote name='Westie9' timestamp='1403760300' post='2485939'] Sounds like its going to be a great one!!! We'll try and get a power source from outside the room in case it does go... As a rough guide I'll monitor it via an app I've found but 98dBs does sound very low... Hopefully as mentioned above it has a traffic light system so at least I can see something during the gig. Can't wait...... [/quote] There's a possibility it won't be too bad. Most bands operate at around the 100db level as their on stage levels. If the limiter is a few metres away then the sound falls away 6db every time the distance doubles. On the down side it depends upon how the software is set up. At this level peaks are going to go above 120db so if it works on peaks then you've no chance. If it on average sound levels over say a few seconds you'll probably be fine. Ive always looked for another socket to bypass the limiter on the principle that my first duty is to the client and not the venue

The original drivers were probably Fane, Goodman or Celestion. Watch your volume though the horns were similarly low powered and they are unlikely to cope with a high power bass amp especially if you run with any fx or distortion/overdrive.

Sitting or standing? It depends upon why you are practicing. We probably all know but don't always put into practice (see what I did there) the idea that practice should always be for a reason. You'd do different things if you were working on a scale exercise/new song/working out a bassline from the repetition of something you already 'know' to get it up to gig standard. I'd say that once you've got the song down and you are polishing it up to gig standard then you need to start playing it standing. I tend to do this stage at something approaching gig volumes and practice my moves too, sort of air guitar with a real bass. Just hope my wife doesn't get back whilst I'm posing

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1469480633' post='3098743'] What's good enough for Jack Casady is good enough for me. [/quote]Don't you play drums? Danny Thompson, got to dig out Pentangle later on. Today is going to be a good day.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469436004' post='3098175'] These versions (and more) all predate Natalie Imbruglia ... the song was composed and written by members of Ednaswap (Anne Preven and Scott Cutler) and producer (Phil Thornally who also produced the Natalie Imbruglia album). [media]http://youtu.be/V1SH1YdITDI[/media] [/quote] I remember reading an interview with Paul Bushnell, bassist with Ednaswap. Finding out their song they'd been gigging for years was a hit without them being involved broke up the band. Paul Bushnell did allright out of it having seen who he's played with since, here's the article. [url="http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/nov09/articles/paulbushnell.htm"]http://www.performin...aulbushnell.htm[/url] As a cover band player (whatever that is, I'm so unsure ) I have to say the bass line the session guy put on the hit version is a lot of fun to play.

What sort of music do you play? I would use completely different methods to promote a young band playing originals to the method I would use to promote a covers band. unfortunately Lemonrock hasn't really hit Bristol in a big way yet. In areas where it is strong its a great resource for cover bands. There are thousands of gigs on there so it has become the go to resource for anyone wanting to go to a pub gig. If you were based in Weston or Burnham it might be worth a punt. Google shows any number of gig sites for Bristol, look for ones with a load of gigs that bands like yours use. Bristol itself has a great music scene if you are playing originals you'll need to tap into that. Loads of musicians there will go to see each other, there are two universities to tap into if you play to that sort of audience. There's a lot of word of mouth, social media sharing and no shortage of fly posting. For me I think Facebook is a dead duck when used directly by a band. Have a page and keep it up to date but beyond that sending messages to people who are swamped already isn't going to achieve much.

That is quite a meaty PA and what they have is really an automatic volume control it seems. You've correctly identified the problem as being where they are monitoring from. The on stage volume of a rock band is likely to be around 103dB and you can reckon on a 6dB fall every tome you double the distance from the sound source. There won't be much reinforcement from reflection in a tent. It could be ok but I would quickly try and talk to the venue to find out. It might be good to get the names of other bands who have played there to see how it worked for them If you seriously think it will be a problem then contact your client. The venue are far more likely to respond to the person paying them. If the venue can't provide the facilities they want then there might be contractual issues if they didn't warn their clients about noise restrictions. The venue may be subject to restrictions from the council of course. It can be part of a planning application or an entertainments licence. If the noise restriction is sophisticated enough you may be fine. I'd also raise the issue of monitors on stage.

Any other lazy B****rs like me using this site to work out songs. I'm a quick fix sort of a person (with cloth ears) and anything that helps me close in on a bassline quickly I'll use. I like to use an accurate chord chart as a starting point with new songs. If you haven't used Riffstation it runs off You Tube and works out the chord changes. The software seems to slightly favour bass, the first beat of the bar and the loudest sounds so often good for us low enders. It's far from 100% accurate, it gets confused by more harmonically challenging music and only seems to do major and minor chords. If anything it tends to put in more chord changes than are actually there. But when the usual suspect tab sites don't have an accurate chord chart it's becoming my go to. It's also fun to see when the computers get it right.

I use one of the old Kickback 10s for small gigs and semi acoustic stuff. I quite like it as an on stage monitor with most bass going through the PA but some drummers aren't so keen on low bass volumes on stage. To be honest it struggles at loud rehearsals and most gigs so I end up cutting deep bass. Doubling the power is going to help but that will also depend upon the speaker they use. Its on my list of things to try. 250W is just about where power becomes enough, a single speaker has to be a good one to be enough on its own.

I recon you are over thinking this. You keep mentioning the tone you want and the only way you'll find this is by listening. Most of us can get by with a good 210 so anything bigger than this should be capable enough. You have a rig that works so there is no rush. Take your time and go out ands listen to as many rigs as you can and try them out in shops when you have time. Keep going until you find the tone monster you are looking for. The trouble is that all the words we use for describing sound are so vague. Heft anyone?

OK, If you wanted original I suspect the one I used would be available. It belongs to a friend and sits there unused. There's lots of old Peavey cabs out there with BW's in but beware there are several models I think Eminence Basslites would work well in this cab and give you a worthwhile reduction in weight with a similar sort of sound to the original speakers. The Eminence 3015HO might also work but I'd want to check the dimensions and run a full set of calculations before recommending them firmly. As I remember the cab was actually rather small for the original BW's and tuned too high but sounded nice nonetheless. Unfortunately I know I won't see my mate for the next few weeks, we play in a duo together. That means I can't measure the cab myself. These are both quite pricey recommendations, there are cheaper options if you want.